Hymirl Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I'm wondering if people get much use out of scout bikes, I have a unit that I occasionally use (by occasionally normally a few times after a new ruleset appears and they're so disapointing they go back on the shelf!). I'm wondering if any estemed battle brothers have found them useful for their own merits? It'd be nice to put them into play instead of having to buy and paint more models! If I explain about my approach a moment, I run a mixed white scar army. Bikes with support of a mechanised tactical unit and a predator, I'm considering dropping the not-so-hot Khan in favour of a cheaper generic capitan and bringing in the scout bikes to retain a little outflanking sneak attack value. As a unit to fight with in themselves I don't see them stacking up anywhere near as good as a bike unit. Mostly because the grenade launchers aren't close to the damage you can put out with a flamer. On the upside I guess they're fairly cheap for bikes so you get what you pay for... it would probably have to be the powerfist for combat so a combi-flamer is ruled out even there. Looking at them on face value I don't see much use beyond positioning a beacon anywhere you like on the table on turn one, (for drop pod reinforcement etc). Their contribitions with booby traps and shooting being minimal at best as far as I can see? So are Scout bikes nothing more than a battlefield tool? a box of quick tricks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkrieg861 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I havent used them personally but I would very strongly recommend it, they seem awesome. But I am also converting to a more or less rhino/drop pod assault army. Being able to Scout ahead and get a good position for the drop pods to land is awesome (locator beacon) it also gives you a mobile beacon if you want to gate (you can move 24" with your speed boost) The minefield thing is cool too, put that on an objective right by the enemy, if they think they're getting that objective easy... they're wrong!! I love the idea of a nade launcher, do these guys come with bolt pistol and close combat weapon? I believe these guns are assault, but I guess it wouldn't matter anyways since its a bike. I'd use them to mop up things that slipped through the bigger guns fingers and to use it to move the bikes all around to give yourself more accurate deep striking abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Black Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 In order for them to be worth what you pay you really have to use all of the special features that they come with. This includes scout, infiltrate, and the locator beacon. If you don’t then those are points lost even before you start the game. Just keep in mind that three attack bikes with heavy bolters costs far less, kills more, has a better armor save and uses the same fast attack slot. I guess that that is the down fall of having such a specialized unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brgerkng Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I haven't run scout bikes, but I have been running a mostly bike army like you seem to be talking about. My feeling about the scout bikes is that they look good. Their infiltrate and scout moves can potentially lead to great set ups and the bolters being twin-linked somewhat offsets their BS of 3, but they do suffer from a lower armor save. While the scout bikes look good, I would say attack bike squadrons are probably a better use of your fast attack slots. They are a great source of mobile firepower. Multi-meltas are great for taking care of vehicles, stuff with high toughness (carnifex-range), and stuff with multi-wounds and can be insta-killed. Heavy bolters can take care of infantry, and with 36in range can keep away from some return fire. Both options can prove to be valuable. Oh, and I can sympathize with you not wanting to get more models. I have 25 bikes and 7 attack bikes, for my captain, 3 full squads and some extra attack bikes, and I would probably go nuts if I had to put anymore together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 My thoughts: You use scout bikes for some kind of specialist purpose, otherwise you have better fast attack choices available (assault squads if you want something to get stuck in, or attack bike squads if you want shooting). The advantage of the scout bikes is their rules, as people have said above. They are the best way to get a locator beacon wherever you need it, and get it there fast. They are also a great way to make sure you can tie up dangerous enemy shooting units right at the start of the game, given that you have scout moving bikes that can get up in their face fast. The cluster mines are a neat gadget, but to me, just a gadget most of the time. The grenade launchers are better, in my eyes, for getting behind vehicles and rapid firing krak grenades into them than they are at taking out infantry, thanks to how much the small templates can scatter. So, in short, if you are using them to neutralize the opposition early or to bring something in with the beacon, I like them. Otherwise, better options are found elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 The biggest mistake people make with scout bikes, is to hold them up to the standards set by regular bikers/assault bikers... If you use them as cheaper SM bikers then your in for trouble... Some examples: Infiltrate 18" from enemy then use scout move to be about 6" away....this all happens before turn 1, if you have any drop pods DS'ing units then you can use beacon to bring them down safely and where you want them....also the grenade launchers are S6 and shoot twice at short range, 3 in the unit will cause problems to anyone at close range. You then get the charge....all in the first turn... Another option is outflank, and the cluster mines are awesome, not just because they go boom, but also becuase the enemy is aware what they can do and doesnt know where they are....mind games.... Personally i use 3 armed with combi-melta and meltabombs for 90 points and go for enemy tanks on first turn.. In one game against DA i took out 2 speeders from a squadron of 3 before the first turn, i then went onto assault a damaged dread but rolled poorly and got squished.... They have thier uses and 'tricks' but used properly are very helpful... Check out the link in my sig for more tips. GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silber Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 As far as I understand this unit it is a "trick-pony". It has lots of cool tricks it can pull of, but that's about it. Mostly they're contributing to your game by using their infiltrate USR and scout move to be in your opponents face (or rear end) even before the game starts. This way they can use their locator beacon to the best effect, kick some vehicles butt or tie up an expensive shooting unit (works good on Tau - Braodsides beware). Also they can outflank if you like that better and use their mines to hit your opponent where he doesn't expect it and/or keep him from going where he does expect it. I haven't used them, and I don't plan to. I don't like this kind of playstyle. But if you're into pulling off lots of fancy tricks than these might be for you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I haven't used them, and I don't plan to. I don't like this kind of playstyle. But if you're into pulling off lots of fancy tricks than these might be for you.... Yes and no, whilst they have fancy tricks, used to outflank with a full squad and fist grenad launchers (fully kitted out) they can hit quite hard...albeit not as hard as a regular bike squad, however bikes squads normally dont outflank... That being said, paying 100-150 points on a small unit that has plenty of gizmos and 'tricks' is not too bad.... GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkrieg861 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I agree, their benefits are nearly limitless! the mines can make grabbing an objective harder and while they may not be as good as a regular marine in a fight, it wouldn't matter against Tau! They suck at fighting anyways. First turn charge with them, maybe Kavyaan and friends plus some drop pods, that equals a dead Tau player! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silber Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I didn't say that they can't hit hard, let alone that they're ineffective. I think they're good if used correctly. It's just that I don't like the playstyle that is associated with using them to good effect.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I didn't say that they can't hit hard, let alone that they're ineffective. I think they're good if used correctly. It's just that I don't like the playstyle that is associated with using them to good effect.... Its swings and roundabouts really, you have to balance thier strengths/weaknesses against the special rules. Ultimately as you rightly say its down to the style of play....i have 2 space marine armies, my 3rd company force which has no scouts whatsoever and my 10th comapny which is only scouts....the only time ive played scout bikes in a 'normal' space marine force, it was a bike/assault troops heavy army... GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brgerkng Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Some examples:Infiltrate 18" from enemy then use scout move to be about 6" away....this all happens before turn 1, if you have any drop pods DS'ing units then you can use beacon to bring them down safely and where you want them....also the grenade launchers are S6 and shoot twice at short range, 3 in the unit will cause problems to anyone at close range. You then get the charge....all in the first turn... Just to note, anything using a scout move has to remain more than 12" from enemy models. Of course, if you infiltrate you can just place them anywhere and then turbo-boost to where you need to be. Either way it seem like an effective idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silber Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 As I said I haven't used them, so probably I shouldn't be talking about them like this, but from what I understand and have heard so far they work best when you are using them as a fire and forget mode unit. Equip them as cheap as possible with some anti-tank, mines and a homer. Infiltrate them, scout them right into the opposing army's face and behind an important tank. Drop your pods on the homer, fry the tank. If they live, be positively surprised and use them for harassment or so. The mines are a bonus. And that is what I meant by "playstyle I don't like". I'm not a fan of forcing decisive turns, of this kind of hit/miss units. I like to dance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Yeah Scout Bikes are great for positioning that Turn #1 Drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Seems pretty similar to my thinking, unless you're using a drop pod (whcih I'm not) you're really not getting your money worth with these guys. Mines, nifty but ultimatly not game winning. Couple of kills maybe? Not really going to discourage people that much. Fighting ablity is suicide shock/tie-up at best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Just to note, anything using a scout move has to remain more than 12" from enemy models. Of course, if you infiltrate you can just place them anywhere and then turbo-boost to where you need to be. Either way it seem like an effective idea. Yeah your right, it has all the info in my tactcia, i got myself all in a muddle :lol: Anyway as you can move 12" in your own turn you can literally shoot point blank... GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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