Frost Blades: Relics of the Wolves

[Vash113]

Its just a game based in a fantasy world 30 something thousand years in the future. Screw it make it out of a tyranid scything talon, who cares.

 

You can of course do whatever you feel like in all things dealing with your army. If you want it to be fluffy in regards to the canon that's another matter but each to their own. Personally I prefer to adhere to the published fluff, but nobody has to if they don't want to, but like me some people do care.

 

Now if this is the case, then Ragnar is not holding a frost blade but a serrated power sword. Although, could there teeth be big enough to make a whole sword out of, it is still just a fantasy world.

Could you make one from an eviscerator? Is there a model out with one to get it from?

 

Actually Ragnar's weapon is a Frost Blade, it's got a casing and chainblade teeth around the chainsword casing, it is just more ornate and older looking than most currently modeled 40k Chainswords.

 

As for an Eviscerator yes you could make a Frost Blade from one but you may have trouble with that. The only one I can think of would be the Witch Hunters priest I think, his could be modeled but it's big and it's metal, you'd probably be better off making one from Chainswords or Ork weapons and just sticking them back to back. Or you could try getting a Sisters Repentia Eviscerator but those might be even harder to convert up.

 

Russ, frost blade on the cover of prospero burns looks nothing like a chain sword nor does ulrik, or Logan's to be honest...

 

As far as I know fluff wise Logan and Ulrik do not have Frost Blades, their weapons simply function similar to one or in the case of Logan can function that way. Russ also has a weapon forged for him by the Emperor himself, it may be from a Kraken tooth, it may be from another material, in either case the Emperor hunted the beast and I doubt anyone else could track and kill such a creature, but maybe they could.

 

And kraken have "teeth" on there tenticals and in their maw could one of these not be used to craft a sword or axe head?

 

The teeth aren't that big however, the Kraken would need to be positively and utterly enormous to have a fang large enough to forge a sword from, and remember a Frost Blade like a Chainsword likely gets a lot of it's cutting power from the rotary action of the chainblade, just using a Kraken tooth as a Sword might get you a Power Weapon or very nice Combat Blade but I don't think it would compare to the serrated cutting action you get from a chainsword setup.

[TeamLando]

When I sculpted the Kraken of Fenris for one of my Dioramas, I used Tyranid Talons as teeth, since it's mentioned in the Tyranids Codex that the fenrisian Kraken is a tyranid being. So, I guess, using those as blades would work very well as knives and swords fro Space Wolves characters :rolleyes:

[Matrias]

Dumb thing to come out of lurking for, but the zealousness and certainy of Vash's perspective rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I've read bits of fluff referring to Leman Russ' sword being a Frost Blade called Mjalnar. I can't recall where I read this, but quick glance at Lexicanum says it was made from the kraken Gormenjarl. So it's a frost blade, one that doesn't look anything like a chain weapon.

 

I've seen very few depictions of fenrisian krakens (In fact, Lando's is the only one I could find!), but if Leman Russ can have a giant sword fit for him made from one, I think it's safe to say a more regular-sized axe or sword blade is not out of the question for more regular sized Marines.

 

Also Logan Grimnar's morkai also don't look anything like chain swords, and while it may just may be 'frost blade-like', I think that if I was the Iron Priest reforging a chaos weapon for the Great Wolf, I'd probably want to have some kraken teeth in the edge.

 

With Mjalnar alone, it's an easy conclusion to make that not all frost weapons are chain weapons. It's not a rule, and I think a person choosing how they want to represent their frost blade has a lot of wiggle room.

[TeamLando]

I've seen very few depictions of krakens (In fact, Lando's is the only one I could find!), but if Leman Russ can have a giant sword fit for him made from one, I think it's safe to say a more regular-sized axe or sword blade is not out of the question for more regular sized Marines.

Haha, actually, mine's what I'd call a "Kraken Baby" xD The maximum size for the diorama competition in question was "A regular CD", so I had to scale it down a little, and design it myself :) However, if I remember it correclty, the original kraken of the fenrisian sea is mentioned in the 2nd editon space wolf-codex as a huge deep sea dwelling creature, like the original pirate one. And mine's just a smaller version of that.

 

Also, on the map of the Claix Syetem in the W40k Roleplaying game Dark Heresy, there's a picture of a "regular" kraken shredding an imperial battle ship. Sure, it's probabaly just to add feeling t the map, but IF the map's been drawn to look like a genuin artifact from the 40k world, which these maps commonly are, it COULD mean that that kraken is a drawing of a fenrisian kraken, since Fenris is the only planet I've heard of that's got it :) However, this Kraken doen't seem to resemble a tyranid in any way.. so.. who knows? ^_^

 

Anyway, it's a long shot :D

[Vash113]

When I sculpted the Kraken of Fenris for one of my Dioramas, I used Tyranid Talons as teeth, since it's mentioned in the Tyranids Codex that the fenrisian Kraken is a tyranid being. So, I guess, using those as blades would work very well as knives and swords fro Space Wolves characters :)

 

Woa where in the Tyranid Codex is this? I gotta go have a look at that.

 

Looks like I'm behind updating the SW Comp History, got the new short story, stuff from the CSM Codex and now the Nids Codex to add in and soon Prospero Burns, the work never ends. :P

 

Dumb thing to come out of lurking for, but the zealousness and certainy of Vash's perspective rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I don't see anything I'd call overly zealous and as for certainty well the Codex explains what a Frost Blade is pretty clearly.

 

I've read bits of fluff referring to Leman Russ' sword being a Frost Blade called Mjalnar. I can't recall where I read this, but quick glance at Lexicanum says it was made from the kraken Gormenjarl. So it's a frost blade, one that doesn't look anything like a chain weapon.

 

This is true. However as I mentioned in my previous post, the Kraken from which Russ' blade was forged was hunted and killed by the Emperor, the most monolithically powerful human ever known. So while that suggests such things are not entirely impossible the likely hood of a mere marine matching a feat of the Emperor is a bit far fetched I'd think.

 

I've seen very few depictions of fenrisian krakens (In fact, Lando's is the only one I could find!), but if Leman Russ can have a giant sword fit for him made from one, I think it's safe to say a more regular-sized axe or sword blade is not out of the question for more regular sized Marines.

 

Perhaps, but then again Russ' weapon is a unique entity and while I suppose you could forge a knife or axe blade from an unusually large tooth, as I mentioned before a Frost Blade is a Chainsword and a lot of the power likely comes from the rotary action, power you wouldn't likely be able to match with a simple edged blade. So while perhaps possible, it doesn't seem very practical or effective.

 

Also Logan Grimnar's morkai also don't look anything like chain swords, and while it may just may be 'frost blade-like', I think that if I was the Iron Priest reforging a chaos weapon for the Great Wolf, I'd probably want to have some kraken teeth in the edge.

 

Perhaps but that's pure speculation.

 

With Mjalnar alone, it's an easy conclusion to make that not all frost weapons are chain weapons. It's not a rule, and I think a person choosing how they want to represent their frost blade has a lot of wiggle room.

 

I wouldn't say that, Mjalnar is hardly a good example of your average weapon. Forged by the Emperor and wielded by a Primarch it's by no means proof that more mundane weapons done in such a way would work at all.

 

However you seem to have missed my point, which is anyone can do anything they please. I, and let me stress the I there, don't think it's fluffy for non-chainsword Frost Blades. But that doesn't stop anyone from having them if they so wish. There's tons of wiggle room in any 40k fluff and Frost Blades are no exception, if you really, absolutely, positively MUST justify a conversion or modeling you find cool with fluff you will find a way. You don't have to though, the rule of cool is more than enough justification for just about anything. So if you get rankled by my opinion, well that's your right.

 

In the end though, I still don't think non-chainblade Frost Weapons are that practical fluff wise or that cool modeling wise. We're the only Chapter with official fluff depicting our officers wielding specialized Chainblades rather than the all too common Power Weapons, Lightning Claws and the occasional Power Fist. I personally think that's a cool and unique aspect of the Chapter and makes for an unusual and characterful bit of modeling. But that's just me.

[TeamLando]

Woa where in the Tyranid Codex is this? I gotta go have a look at that.

 

Looks like I'm behind updating the SW Comp History, got the new short story, stuff from the CSM Codex and now the Nids Codex to add in and soon Prospero Burns, the work never ends. :P

 

Unfortunately, I don't have the codex with me right now, but if you own a copy, it should be really easy to find. It's just a very small note, and If I remember it correclty, it's on the same page as the one which mentions a catachan scorpion creature (with a picture of said creature) also being a tyranid from the start. Good hunting, if you can't find it, i'll look up the exact page when I get back to a copy of the nid dex (I'm not at home atm).

 

I for one also like the kraken teeth story, but I also like the frost/blizzard/lighting pattern one can give an ordinary power weapon. I prefer it over the red scheme, anyway :)

[maligncomedy]

Page 24, Ouroboris M36 in the Tyranid Codex mentions the Space Wolves as having "trophies of tyranid-like iterms, including the Kraken's Egg".

[Matrias]

I don't think the Emperor made Mjalnar - I generally assumed it's something Russ brought for himself from Fenris because he didn't like the spear the Emperor gave him (spear of russ). It seems to me the Fenrisians have been making Frost Blades long before the Crusades reached the world.

 

 

Also, when you have 30 Blood Claws on the field, I don't find yet another chain weapon all that unique.

[Vash113]

Unfortunately, I don't have the codex with me right now, but if you own a copy, it should be really easy to find. It's just a very small note, and If I remember it correclty, it's on the same page as the one which mentions a catachan scorpion creature (with a picture of said creature) also being a tyranid from the start. Good hunting, if you can't find it, i'll look up the exact page when I get back to a copy of the nid dex (I'm not at home atm).

 

Yea I'm away from home atm as well, gonna have to go by a hobby shop Monday and see what there is to see.

 

I for one also like the kraken teeth story, but I also like the frost/blizzard/lighting pattern one can give an ordinary power weapon. I prefer it over the red scheme, anyway :lol:

 

Yea the lightning pattern does look very cool and is also something generally different from the norm.

 

Page 24, Ouroboris M36 in the Tyranid Codex mentions the Space Wolves as having "trophies of tyranid-like iterms, including the Kraken's Egg".

 

Thanks for the additional info.

 

I don't think the Emperor made Mjalnar - I generally assumed it's something Russ brought for himself from Fenris because he didn't like the spear the Emperor gave him (spear of russ). It seems to me the Fenrisians have been making Frost Blades long before the Crusades reached the world.

 

The spear is the invention of the SW series, the HH material if I recall correctly has nothing to say on a spear, Mjolnir, the weapon carried by Russ in the artwork, was made by the Emperor for him. Given that Iron weapons are a rare and valuable commodity among the Fenresian Island Tribes I doubt Frost Weapons existed before the coming of the Emperor and Imperial Technology.

 

Also, when you have 30 Blood Claws on the field, I don't find yet another chain weapon all that unique.

 

An average Chain Weapon maybe not, but then again a good Frost Weapon is most definitely not just another Chainsword. I prefer to make them much bigger, beefier and more nasty looking. It isn't hard to do really.

[maligncomedy]

Also, when you have 30 Blood Claws on the field, I don't find yet another chain weapon all that unique.

 

An average Chain Weapon maybe not, but then again a good Frost Weapon is most definitely not just another Chainsword. I prefer to make them much bigger, beefier and more nasty looking. It isn't hard to do really.

 

Once again, I am with Vash on this one. You have a wide plethora of possible conversion pieces. I mean there are Ork chain weapons, Khorne chain weapons, Forgeworld made Chain weapons, Chaos Chain Weapons, That chainsword that I love but don't know where it's from so I can't finish my frostblade conversion (It has repent on its side), hell you could even make your own chain weapon using bits from other chain weapons for the conversion or even plasticard. It's honestly not that hard to make a weapon stand out. Even putting more work into painting it is good usually.

[Matrias]

Not to be rude, but I don't think any of the chain-frost blades you posted accomplish that. My mind still looks at them and thinks "CCW," and more often than that, my opponent will as well.

 

There's something that a naked blade that's painted to look icey communicates that blue chain saw teeth doesn't, even over blue chain-saw teeth on a giant, impressive looking chainsaw.

[TeamLando]

I guess if you added more runes and longer, not as symetric looking teeth to the chainblade, it'd look even more awesome and special, making the power weapong feeling a bit closer than the ordinary CCW one :lol:

[Baluc]

Could it not be the sculpting the tooth into a blade or axe head gives it strength and the ordinary power field creates the power weapon effect. Also Frost blades are by no means the norm, 4 models in the book can take one, at present. And none of them are normal even by marine standards.

 

Again no where states that they kill these kraken by themselves, it simply says they are crafted from kraken teeth. From what we've read kraken devour even the largest ships, we're talking at least 2 mast ships here. That would have to be almost as large as the megalodon, thats approx 59 feet. Megalodon teeth have been found as large as stop signs... I know we're not talking sharks but a carnivore of this size has massive teeth. Who's to say a single blade crafted from several teeth isn't how its made. I simply feel there is too little evidence to really support either view, and until something conclusive is presented, either option should be considered legitmate. I mean prospero Burns presents a wooden storm shield...

[maligncomedy]

Not to be rude, but I don't think any of the chain-frost blades you posted accomplish that. My mind still looks at them and thinks "CCW," and more often than that, my opponent will as well.

 

There's something that a naked blade that's painted to look icey communicates that blue chain saw teeth doesn't, even over blue chain-saw teeth on a giant, impressive looking chainsaw.

 

No offense taken man. It's just a personal preference. Personally, I have always been a fan of the DH/WH Eviscerators, so to me one of those would make a decent frostblade. But I totally see your side as well.

[Vash113]

Not to be rude, but I don't think any of the chain-frost blades you posted accomplish that. My mind still looks at them and thinks "CCW," and more often than that, my opponent will as well.

 

There's something that a naked blade that's painted to look icey communicates that blue chain saw teeth doesn't, even over blue chain-saw teeth on a giant, impressive looking chainsaw.

 

That's your opinion and your perfectly welcome to have it. :D

 

Who's to say a single blade crafted from several teeth isn't how its made. I simply feel there is too little evidence to really support either view, and until something conclusive is presented, either option should be considered legitmate. I mean prospero Burns presents a wooden storm shield...

 

Well the Codex says quite simply that Frost Weapons are chainsaw blades whose teeth are made from Kraken teeth. As far as I can see there's not much wiggle room in that, it doesn't say "weapons whose blades are crafted from Kraken teeth," it says "they utilise the diamond-sharp fangs of the Ice Kraken as the teeth for their chainsaw blades." The key there is Chainsaw blades. A Frost Blade can be anything with chainsaw teeth really to be fluffy in the traditional canon sense. You can do a straight edged sword or axe if you wish, or heck even a mace if you really felt like it, you could model a Frost Warhammer if you were so inclined and hey Space Wolves would look cool with a huge hammer, may not be a truly 100% canon accurate fluffy representation of a Frost Weapon but does it have to be a traditional Frost Weapon?

 

40k shows us thousands of exceptions, Logan Grimnar's axe is an excelent example, it's NOT a traditional Frost Weapon, but it can be used as one (or a Power Fist but that's another matter). Maybe you want a Warhammer forged from the adamantine hard crest of some Fenresian sea monster and in game it functions like a Frost Blade. After all there's a bewildering array of close combat weapons and power weapons and all sorts of things, you can do fluffy non-traditional Frost Weapon counts-as in an uncoutable number of ways.

 

The weapons we know as Frost Weapons in the fluff are chainsaw bladed weapons, but there's no reason you can't come up with your own Frost Weapon like implement of death that can look or function however you please, and with a little ingenuity you can make some really interresting fluff to back it up.

 

Now back to the origional topic, the purpose of the article in this thread was not to debate how you can do your own Frost Weapons if you want to, but how to model Frost Weapons as they are depicted in the Codex. But it's an old Codex and the fluff is ever changing, maybe in Prospero Burns or the new Codex in October we'll learn about Frost Weapons or weapons forged differently that do the same thing that are in no way chainblades of any kind, ya never know but that's not what this thread is about really.

 

P.S. Storm Shields fluff wise are really just close ranged force field generators, unlike Rosarius or Iron Halos they aren't that potent and can only protect the user from close ranged attacks, the actual material the force field container is made from or the shape it takes isn't all that important. Of course the new Storm Shields from C:SM are even better than Iron Halos or Rosarius but still they're just Force Fields and there's no reason you couldn't have a wooden Storm Shield... just sayin.

[WG Vrox]

I think when we consider that Kraken come in all shapes and sizes as well as their teeth, it does not take much imagination to say that in most cases replacing the blades of a chainsword with teeth would be the more simpler application.

 

However, what to do with those bigger teeth?

 

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq71/WG_Vrox/IMG_1098.jpg

 

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq71/WG_Vrox/IMG_1099.jpg

 

WG Vrox

[Matrias]

So I'm bumping this thread just to be a prick and say "I-told-you-so." Sorry.

 

 

When I was in the local GW yesterday meaning reading the new codex, I glanced at the frost blade description, it says frost swords are chainswords with kraken teeth, and frost axes are "made with energized diamond, giving them the appearance of blades carved from solid ice." Or something to that effect.

 

...So there.

 

 

yeah, I know, I'm a prick

 

 

edit: being jerk aside, I'd like to tip my hat to phil kelly, who looked at how most wolf fans liked to make their frost blades and gave us a little fluff to support us.

[Blckbuster]

btw logans axe was never a frost blade or frost axe, it's a demon weapon/axe of khorne/chaos weapon

[Vash113]

When I was in the local GW yesterday meaning reading the new codex, I glanced at the frost blade description, it says frost swords are chainswords with kraken teeth, and frost axes are "made with energized diamond, giving them the appearance of blades carved from solid ice." Or something to that effect.

 

How is that an "I-told-you-so" for that to be valid you'd have to come up with something old to support you. No you need new material, well new material changes things now doesn't it? It does not prove your point with regards to the previous fluff in the silghtest and still the new material doesn't support the whole "Kraken toothed Sword" thing in any way. Energized diamond and specifically used for axes, does it even mention anything else?

 

Frankly ya gotta do better than that. If anything I could say "I-told-you-so" as Frost Blades are still only Chainswords with Kraken teeth with the new exception of Axes with diamond blades, you still can't say a Frost Blade could be a giant knife carved from a Kraken tooth. Sory.

 

Regardless as I've said before the argument is pointless, people who want to do things differently can, those who like to rigidly adhere to the fluff can do that too. This is a fluff article so doesn't adress the other stuff. It's as simple as that really.

[Kenmichi]

Well actually, the Kraken is a cephalopod. Which don't have teeth.

 

The only thing cephalopods have that resemble teeth are their radula and a small tooth inside their mouth that functions more like a proboscis than an actual tooth. The radula are flat topped teeth used for grinding. They disintegrate their food with toxins and acids, then swallow. The proboscis like tooth allows them to eat the inside from the outside, like how a butterfly drinks nectar.

 

Which then leads to the obvious, the Fenrisian Kraken is clearly a Tyranid being. A product of 30 millennia of evolution, which can have teeth the size of a Space Marine.

 

[edit] I guess with varying degrees of size considering that the new codex clearly states that frost blades are in fact chain swords with kraken teeth. Which makes absolutely zero sense to me, albeit a cool concept.

[Growler67]

Let us not forget that Sea Serpents/Dragons inhabit the seas of Fenris and their teeth, skins and rib bones are used for various things. The Sea Serpents/Dragons and may have been referred to as Krakens, I forget ATM. Though the Kraken name is used, it may not be the cephalopod variant from Terran myth/legend. Merely a name transference to the denizens of the Fenrisian Deep. I'll go back and have a gander at the first paperback as the ocean voyage made by the Wolf Priest on Ragnars fathers longboat made mention of these creatures.

 

BTW, having caught and consumed many of the cephalopod variants myself, I've only encountered a "beak" and no crushing teeth. That is how they penetrate the exoskeletal structures of their prey items and inject their venom to do it's work: paralyzation and predigestion. Just sayin'.

[Vash113]

Which then leads to the obvious, the Fenrisian Kraken is clearly a Tyranid being. A product of 30 millennia of evolution, which can have teeth the size of a Space Marine.

 

[edit] I guess with varying degrees of size considering that the new codex clearly states that frost blades are in fact chain swords with kraken teeth. Which makes absolutely zero sense to me, albeit a cool concept.

 

Even if it's a Tyranid that's still not proof of teeth the size of Space Marines, even then mutations are relegated to what is most effective for survival and the task the Tyranid organism is meant to achieve. Long teeth aren't necessarily better, few creatures in all of evolutionary history have had very long teeth. Also look at sharks, they have many teeth and some Megaladon teeth are as large or larger than your hand but I have yet to see or read about a real tooth that you could realistically make a sword out of... maybe a moderate knife or spear tip but that's the absolute most you'd get.

 

Also as Prowler said it may not be a cephalopod exactly. Even then look at fictional images of Kraken. Heck I'm playing Fable right now and the Kraken in that game has a head that would be suited to a Dragon with a fanged maw and a skull... now I think about it, it basically was a tentacled dragon thing. Kraken in myths and legends are not your average cephalopod and are most often shown with claws and fangs, not necessarily big ones but they are there nevertheless.

[Grey Mage]

Theres also the fact that in many movies and books theyre shown with "Teeth" on their tentacles suckers.... wich is odd, but if theyre being used as a weapon it makes about as much sense as anything else Ive heard this week.

[SamaNagol]

Ragnar Blackmane, in the rules, had THE original Frost Blade. That was the name of his sword, in the same way Drachnyen, Gauntlets of Ultramar or Axe Morkai were named weapons. In 3rd edition they made Frost Blades a generic term to describe cool power weapons for your HQs.

 

And yes, it is much more difficult to model an ornate chain sword, which is why so many people end up doing blue powered blades instead.

 

Mjalnar was a Runesword anyway, same as the weapons wielded by the Emperor and Sanguinius.

[WG Vrox]

In case some have not noticed, on the new sprue there is a frost blade type sword that has the chain on both sides of the blade.

 

WG Vrox