kittenofdeath Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 the main arguement for the honour guard and command squads being retinues that i knew of was that they were refered to as such in a few places, when i realised today that the GW FAQ for the space marines was updated last month, i had a looksie, and in the eratta section, it changes the one part i knew of in the new codex that called the 2 squads retinues, so i was curious, are there any other compelling arguements for space marines having retinues? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Not really, since Space Marines currently do not have "retinues". For a unit for work like a retinue, it must be a unit bought for your Independent Character which it cannot leave during the game. Like an Imperial Guard Command Squad, or like how command squads used to work in previous codices. It does not matter if they are refered to as a "retinue" in their (fluff) description. It is the game mechanic of teh IC being an inseparable part of the unit that matters. But that is not the case with Space Marine Command Squads. They can only be bought if you include a certain IC, but if they are bought, they operate on their own and do not need to be with the IC. The IC could decide to join them, or leave them, at his will. So they are not a "retinue" as specified in the rulebook. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1895134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 All of the SM characters (both special and generic) can be picked out in close-combat. There are no longer any 'official' retinues (not even in the variant Codicies, as BT's are the last to have 'real' retinues and they have a special rule forcing their IC's to fight seperately and thus able to be picked out and powerfisted to death). Â The only 'official' retinues left are (IIRC) ; - IG (soon to be changed) - DH (Brother-Captain Stern, Grey Knight Hero, Inquisitors/Lords) - WH (SoB Heroine, Inquisitors/Lords) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1895206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergerjo Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Dark Eldar can still have retinues Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1895363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maligoare Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Tau too, for both Battlesuit commanders and Ethereals. There could be a couple of characters somewhere in the Ork codex, and don't forget that Tellion effectively benefits from the retinue rule by actually being an upgrade for the squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1895431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Telion is an Upgrade Character, not an Independent Character. No need for retinue rules.  I think the Wolf Guard still works like a retinue as well.  So that means the following Codices have retinues:  Dark Eldar Space Wolves Imperial Guard Tau Daemon Hunters Witch Hunters Black Templars (with the added rule that the IC can still be attacked) EDIT: Tyranids  And these do not have retinues:  Space Marines Dark Angels Blood Angels Chaos Space Marines Orks Eldar Necrons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1895524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
white radish Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Isn't the Brood Lord inseparable & not specifically called out as targetable from his Genestealer retinue? Â Not sure where my Tyranid Codex is at the moment... Â There's also the Tyrant Guard for the Hive Tyrant, but their rules are kind of special, as I recall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1896429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Actually, gotta check on the Broodlord. EDIT: Even though it says "and a retinue of Genestealers", they don't have the Retinue rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1896586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 @white radish: I think you are right, the Broodlord is inseparable from the Genestealers bought with him IIRC. Forgot abot them, and was not checking out the Tyant Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1896714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Legatus, the unit needs the Retinue rule for the character to be inseperable, which the GS retinue does not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1897505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 All that is needed is that the IC cannot leave the unit during the game. The unit itself does not need to be described in any particular way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1898322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 And where does it say the Broodlord can't leave them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1898343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I went with memory, because I will not be able to access my books for the next two weeks. IIRC the way it is described in Codex Tyranids, the Broodlord allways comes with a squad of Genestealers attached, it is not an extra squad that is bought independently like current Marine command squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1898347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Squad size is "broodlord and 5-11 genestealers", because of that the broodlord is a member of the squad and cannot leave it until all the genestealers are dead. But what does this have to with command squads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1898611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Space Marine command squads operate independently from the Captain and are not "retinues". The Captain can join them or leave them, but he will not be protected in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161403-space-marine-retinues/#findComment-1899145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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