Oath Breakers

[MaveriK]

So I was visiting my local Games Workshop this weekend and bumped into several Chaos players whom I've played against with in the past. They (a khorne army, death guard and emperor's children army) wanted me to aid them in a Apocalypse game against an Eldar and Tau army. Jokingly I laughed and said "Space Wolves would NEVER fight along side traitors." They all laughed in a friendly way, expecting that answer from me. But the Nurgle player who out of the three was the worst of them all and who recently just lost to my Space Wolves spoke out and reminded me of the story of "The Wolf of Fenris." Everyone was silent and shocked, I was so furious inside... all I could do was smile and say "you still bitter from you loss?" I swear wolf brothers, every time I hear that ridiculous and inconsistent story I get so angry as if I feel violated and disrespected. I know it sounds funny, but its like someone disrespecting your favorite sports team you know?

 

I know we've had several discussions about this before, more so when the Chaos Codex came out with the story of "The Wolf of Fenris" now my question is WHY? or HOW? could a Space Wolf break their oaths. who's to blame? Gav Thorpe? GW Marketing?

 

Now in the story of "The Wolf of Fenris" their were a few Space Wolves who recanted their oaths to the Space Wolves, Leman Russ and the Emperor. And swore new pledges of loyalty to Huron Blackheart. What I find very inconsistent (which is the only thing GW is reliable for) is that there was a Wolf Priest in the ship during the fight; fluff-wise its been written that even Wolf Lords bow and heed wisdom from Wolf Priest. Even savage Wulfen packs from the 13th Company obey and rally to the Wolf Priest. So how the heck would those who turned traitor go against their Wolf Priest during that battle? how could a Fenris born warrior act so cowardly?

 

Jervis Johnson even said that "they're among his favourite chapters, purely because they actually care about the civilians, they're the good guys as he put it." I know that there have been several Wolf Lords before along with their great companies who have broken ties with the Great Wolf in the past but have remained loyal to Leman Russ and the Emperor. I just find the whole story hard to accept.. I'm not saying that Space Wolves can't go bad, its plausible. But fluff-wise honour is one of the most important things and is a way of life, a part of Fenris culture. Its instinct to us, everything from Leman Russ to the Emperor himself. Our gene seed and Wulfen curse itself is said, is the only thing that prevents chaos from influencing and corrupting the Sons of Russ. And finally... the 13th Company has been fighting in the Eye of Terror since the burning of Prospero. Yet our kin has remained loyal to their mission, to Russ and the Emperor. So how could a bunch of Space Wolves recant their oaths to the Space Wolves, Leman Russ and the Emperor. And swore new pledges of loyalty to some renegade and tyrant?

 

So what are your explanations as to how or why a son of Russ would dare to...

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

GW trying to make the red corsairs be the new big bad of 40k, and lame writers...

 

your looking for fluff reasons? absolutely none.

i do agree that the story is garbage. every time i read it i am shocked that the corsairs boarded the ship, slew the WOlves defending it and the last remaining WOlves turned on their brethen and sold their loyalty to the Corsairs. i am shocked because even a company as error prone as GW is somehow missed something this unbelievable/stupid and allowed it to appear in a actual codex.

 

wolf lord kieran

[MaveriK]

Red Corsairs? who? the new big bad really? LOL jk jk lame writers indeed <_< Now that makes me a little worried about our future codex.. if they (GW) can get away with that story, just imagine what horrible injustices they could possibly do to harm our fluff/stories and codex in general. Gosh, I feel a little discourged and disappointed right now :pinch:

[Vash113]

Sorcery?

 

It's the only truly feasable answer I can think of. Honestly in the most recent Ciaphis Cain book the enemy Chaos General actually was a powerful psyker who was able to sway those without suitable resistance to his side, even the Adepta Sororitas! A whole convent of them!

 

Perhaps Huron did something like that, unless there was a Rune Priest nearby capable of countering the vile sorcery the Wolf Brothers may not have been able to stop themselves and may have simply had their souls stripped unwillingly and turned into puppets of Chaos. A foul and horrible thing to happen to the Sons of Russ but at least possible.

 

Red Corsairs? who? the new big bad really? LOL jk jk lame writers indeed <_< Now that makes me a little worried about our future codex.. if they (GW) can get away with that story, just imagine what horrible injustices they could possibly do to harm our fluff/stories and codex in general. Gosh, I feel a little discourged and disappointed right now :pinch:

 

Don't worry Maverik *hands over some ale* we're the Wolves, no matter how stupid GW turns out with the new Dex we'll make the best of it and keep on trucking, that's the Space Wolf way. ;)

[MaveriK]

Aye, I will and have remained loyal to being and playing Space Wolves since the early 90's and I wont stop. I just felt a little let down by GW haha but whats new? I'll still play and fight for RUSS. Thanks Wolf Brother!! and ever since the Chaos Codex, I've been on a personal hunt at the two Games Workshop stores and any tourneys in my city for any Red Corsairs, Traitor Wolves or Skyrar's Dark Wolves <_<

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

yeah, huron might be a joke but GW isnt laughing...i remember the WD articles when the new chaos codex came out, the writer saying he wanted to move the emphasis from the traitor legions to the renagade marines, and bam! Huron, a third rate wannabe comes from the depths of the Black Library's trash can and gets new rules, a new fig, and the spotlight.

 

i did hear rumblings that a separate mini-dex was to be released focusing on the big 4 of the traitors (Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Emperor's Children and the World Eaters), but i guess the WD BA failure (i kinda liked it...) put this idea on the back burner indefinetely...

 

wolf lord kieran

[JEFF4i]

Insanity. Its the only real thing. Even when someone attempts to corrupt a Wolf, the Canis Helix comes in. All that would happen, plausibly, would be the inner wolf taking over and the Wolf going nuts, attacking whatever. Then, I wouldn't call them traitors, but victims.

 

At least, that's what it would seem to be to me.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

I read the story of 'the wolf of Fenris' while playing a game against my World Eater opponent recently, and ended up reading it several times to make sure I hadn't misunderstood.

 

My impression at the time, and remains true now, is that betrayal on this scale would be almost impossible as, when backed into a corner like this, the space wolves would have returned to base instincts and starting tearing the place apart. As you rightly quote, look at the 13th company... even after years in the eye of terror they are a little nutty (even for a space wolf) but have not betrayed their cause.

 

Having said that, the 40k universe is a strange place... Maybe I'll just have another ale and sit at the end of the bar mumbling to myself. :)

[Max_Dammit]

Have you ever seen a BC beat up a 1000 son sorcerer, Wel if you read fluff, they can. Did chaos ever win in a book against SW, no only in that one story that goes against everything ever written, Its a dumb story. But it could happen, the real warriors where the first to get killed, I wouldn't be sitting in the bridge behind locked doors If I was a true wolf :) , So the more scared wolves would stay on the bridge and turn to save tail :)

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

it was a bet to see if someone at gw was really suicidal enough to write such garbage. i hear the wolf lords are meeting on how to secretly destroy the fool who wrote it.

[Spacefrisian]

You could also say that he shouldn't worry the Wolf of Fenris is already back to its original owners. (yes with us)

[Vassakov]

It's a cunning plan. Huron wants syncophants, to tell him how good he is. Capturing a ship of one of the Legions? And turning the crew? You can almost hear the sounds of egos swelling...

 

But you forget... from us, brothers, came the 13th. Through the Eye of Hell itself, they hunted the enemy in their own layer. Some might call them traitors but we know the fight goes on... how better to wage it than from inside the enemy ranks?

 

On another note, the Wolf Of Fenris story is perhaps not as random as suggested. If you have access to it, look at Pg 76. "A Red Corsair, formally of the Space Wolves." It does happen, brothers... and it would be hubris to suggest it doesn't.

[Jonny Wolf]

Only two states a Space Wolf can be in:

 

Space Wolf

Wulfen

 

That's it. If a brother is over come by chaos and can no longer resist, then the wolf inside will come charging to the front and thus, you have a Wulfen.

 

Period.

[Max_Dammit]

As far as i get it the red cosar arnt as much chaos as they are rebels

[Bulywyf]

I may be misremembering, but in "Ragnar's Claw", when they went to the eldar temple which was actually a prison for a nurgle daemon. Wasn't there a situation where Ragnar and the others of his squad were almost turned by the chaos in the artwork. It was only Ragnar who was able to resist the lure of Chaos. He then saved the rest of his squad.

Also, in "Space Wolf", Ragnar almost failed his initiation when he was tested by the Wolf Priests. Ragnar was very close to the point of being unacceptable because of his rivalry with Sven. This would allow Chaos a means to access Ragnar and convert him. The priests were very worried about this possibility.

Now I appreciate the fact that people are so defensive about their beloved wolves turning to Chaos, but we must beware of the lure of Chaos. Many a good marine was lured through sheer hubris as was suggested earlier. If we do not guard against Chaos, then we will surely fall. We cannot take for granted that the Wolves are immune to the lure; we have advantages that others do not (as stated already in this thread), but we must not rest in the fight. IMHO.

[Vash113]

I may be misremembering, but in "Ragnar's Claw", when they went to the eldar temple which was actually a prison for a nurgle daemon. Wasn't there a situation where Ragnar and the others of his squad were almost turned by the chaos in the artwork. It was only Ragnar who was able to resist the lure of Chaos. He then saved the rest of his squad.

Also, in "Space Wolf", Ragnar almost failed his initiation when he was tested by the Wolf Priests. Ragnar was very close to the point of being unacceptable because of his rivalry with Sven. This would allow Chaos a means to access Ragnar and convert him. The priests were very worried about this possibility.

 

It was Grey Hunter actually and like I said sorcery. Sorcery can do things that just can't be resisted without counter psychic powers and that's not really Ragnar or his squad's fault.

 

Now I appreciate the fact that people are so defensive about their beloved wolves turning to Chaos, but we must beware of the lure of Chaos. Many a good marine was lured through sheer hubris as was suggested earlier. If we do not guard against Chaos, then we will surely fall. We cannot take for granted that the Wolves are immune to the lure; we have advantages that others do not (as stated already in this thread), but we must not rest in the fight. IMHO.

 

On the other hand there had been NO mention of Chaos Space Wolves until the new Chaos Codex. Now all of a sudden there's chaos SW mini's and Skyrar's Dark Wolves and the Wolf of Fenris tale. Everytime someone appears too "good" some nut case at GW has to go and ruin it. Goodness knows nobody can steal the Ultramarine's lime light. :P

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I laughed and said "Space Wolves would NEVER fight along side traitors." They all laughed in a friendly way, expecting that answer from me. But the Nurgle player who out of the three was the worst of them all and who recently just lost to my Space Wolves spoke out and reminded me of the story of "The Wolf of Fenris."

 

Sorry buddy, loyal as the Wolves are, the Grey Knights are the only ones to hold the record of never having a brother fall to Chaos. That implies every other Chapter has had someone fall to Chaos at some point. Sadly that includes the Wolves. :) Happily, it also includes the Ultramarines. :)

[OnlyInDeath]

My thoughts on this are as follows:

 

1. GW and the BL disregard any written fluff for what they think may make a good storyline, whether it adheres to the written dogma or not. Since most writers are too lazy to actually research the space wolves and have no clue what they are actually like, we are often at the butt-end of some really awful writing (ref: Battle for the Abyss, and the above mentioned dex story) or some writing that just completely ignores what has been written before it (ref: any of the William King novels (yes, even the best writing about us isnt accurate to the facts)).

 

2. GW also likes to appease the whiners:

For long, my brothers, the SW's have been able to laugh at the dress-wearing, traitorous Dark Angels and also systematically slaughter any chaos they may come across in droves. And like a choir of schoolgirls, they raised their voices up in complaint about the reightousness of the Space Wolves. And finally, from the dark pits of product management, the song of their pathetic lament was heard and GW offered up this slanderous filth, complete in a gift package bearing a brand new prom dress, and thus the traitorous ranks were appeased.

 

Lesson of the day? Dont assume that you wont have to "assert" what you think of the wolves on the battlefield. GW can write what they want. We'll show the chaos filth what really happens when they try to tangle with Russ' Finest.

[Vash113]

Sorry buddy, loyal as the Wolves are, the Grey Knights are the only ones to hold the record of never having a brother fall to Chaos. That implies every other Chapter has had someone fall to Chaos at some point. Sadly that includes the Wolves. :( Happily, it also includes the Ultramarines. :D

 

Perhaps or perhaps Imperial Authorities mislabel members of Lost Companies or the 13th as Chaos? Understandable given the 13th Company's prevalence for taking chaos marine armor as trophies to replace their own worn out gear. ;)

 

... just sayin...

 

Lesson of the day? Dont assume that you wont have to "assert" what you think of the wolves on the battlefield. GW can write what they want. We'll show the chaos filth what really happens when they try to tangle with Russ' Finest.

 

Here, here, bring that Wolf some ale!

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Be not so hard headed, little brothers.

 

By blindly denying that some of us have failed the test, we risk complacency and are, thus, even more vulnerable to the insidious influence of chaos.

 

It is inviting treachery to deny that some of the vile offal that are renegades were once numbered amongst our hardiest warriors, our comrades and sword brothers.

 

What is clear little brothers, is that our Chapter is strong, we are sword wolves, spear wolves and shield wolves, and we will not fail in our duty by ignoring any threat.

 

We must be ever vigilant, trust in our strengths but acknowledge our weaknesses. For it is through them that our enemies will seek our ruin.

 

For Russ and the Allfather

[Vash113]

We must be ever vigilant, trust in our strengths but acknowledge our weaknesses. For it is through them that our enemies will seek our ruin.

 

However that's somewhat missing the point. The occasional single traitor is almost unavoidable and happens to all Chapters except the Grey Knights. Now though suddenly GW's put out material on whole groups of Space Wolves turning traitor and falling to chaos and that seems far less likely and fitting for the Wolves fluff.

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

I have heard of this most elaborate story of how the Wolf of Fenris fell to the Red Corsairs and I have also been fronted up by the story of how our brethren turning coat at the last minute and joined the pirates. To me the answer is clear, it is nothing but Corsair propagander fabricated by deviant scribes in a book that I wouldnt wipe my arse with. <spits>

 

Let the filthy scum brag about it all they want, they can show me that book a million times over but Hengist will never believe a word as long as he draws breath.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Missing the point! Ah well, let's start with the basics then.

 

What of the reliability of the source?

 

The only survivors of the attack would have been the renegade pirates and any oathbreakers, which places the whole account into doubt.

 

Now, let us consult the questionable text. We know that dozens of wolves were slain, two packs (which the ignorant skald calls squads!) fought vainly in the storage vaults with further packs launching desperate counter attacks against the engine room and another was destroyed guarding the bridge but what of the oathbreakers?

 

However, the account relates to the struggle on the starboard gundeck. This allegedly concerned packs diverted from the battle for the engine room to counter Huron's attack on the bridge. Ambushed on route, the survivors were driven to the gundeck. during the subsequent fight...

 

Then without warning, several of the Space Wolves turned on their brethren, attacking them from behind before surrendering to the mercy of the Blood Reaver.

 

Notwithstanding the validity of the data, your leap from "several" to "whole groups" is not supported even by this corrupt source - especially as know that the bulk of the crew would have been loyal bondsmen (and this is highlighted earlier in the damnable text).

 

Then we have:

As a reward for their treachery, Blackheart granted them command of the Wolf of Fenris.

 

Just how many marine's does it take to command a Strike Cruiser? I know of at least one commanded by a bondsman by Russ's ale soaked breath!

 

All we know for sure it that they have our kinsman's ship and several, that is to say more than a couple by less than many, wolves turned traitor.

 

Now just who is missing the point here, little brother? We have enemies enough without wasting breath on a foolish or bewitched skald.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I have heard of this most elaborate story of how the Wolf of Fenris fell to the Red Corsairs and I have also been fronted up by the story of how our brethren turning coat at the last minute and joined the pirates. To me the answer is clear, it is nothing but Corsair propagander fabricated by deviant scribes in a book that I wouldnt wipe my arse with. <spits>

 

Let the filthy scum brag about it all they want, they can show me that book a million times over but Hengist will never believe a word as long as he draws breath.

 

Here, here, brother - let's drink to splintered shields and blooded axes!

[Vash113]

Notwithstanding the validity of the data, your leap from "several" to "whole groups" is not supported even by this corrupt source - especially as know that the bulk of the crew would have been loyal bondsmen (and this is highlighted earlier in the damnable text).

 

I was also referring to Skyrar's Dark Wolves, apparently a whole Chaos Warband. Which is why I said you were missing the point. :D

 

Does that clear that up?