Wolf Guard Hengist Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Arrrrg Cheers Hendrik, I have just started reading Wolfs Honour and havent got to that bit yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1898495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ra1stl1n Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Well my brothers... the answer to this rediculus story is also in the chaos codex. I read about the Alpha legion, how the manage to "infiltrate" chapters and in dare times they would "turn" on ther "fellows" i.e. going back to chaos... somhow they are dormant during the time till they are awakened by some chaos scheem.... You know it could never have been "real" wolves, that day on Fenris... Well alpha legion infiltration would be kinda hard, no canines,no wolf smell also how'd they pass the cup of the wulfen. But even in the heat of battle just their scent would betray them as not wolves and in turn lead in their elimination. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1898631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 As for the Red corsairs in 3.5 edition not being chaos thats not entirly true. They might not have been full blown chaos scum but they did worship them a bit. If anybody can get hold of that story with the white scar(i think) who infiltrates a red corsair warband and then get found out and inturned into a chaos dred sarcopegous (sp) by huron I think. It makes a good read. As for the sneeky alpha legion although they might not be able to fool a true blooded son of Russ with there fake teath and beards they would surely be able to fool other SM or the =I=. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1898691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I agree with much of what you have said, brother. We wolves are contrary at best and only give our loyalty grudgingly. I can certainly see plenty of evidence for Great Companies going off and doing their own thing - if they thought it was right. That could, indeed, lead them to being labelled 'hereticus' by the Imperium even if they were still loyal, in their minds (and the Chapters perhaps), to the All Father. I also don't buy into the impossibility of traitor wolves due to the canis helix - the potential link between the wulfen and other changelings with Chaos cannot be discounted so quickly and it makes them obvious targets for Khorn - imagine his joy at having a Wulfen Dreadnought under his control! Further, magic, as we have all seen, can do strange things to even the most stalwart warrior. Precisely, well said Wolf Brother. :) Its entirely possible Skyrars are chaos bound SWs. I cant discount the possibility. The fact that they show up in chaos codex is definitely saying something to me you know? Im also open to the possibility that they are just a lost company, and were included because they are technically "renegade". Its also possible that they are fallen red wolves.... another inclusion that seems a bit odd. No one seems to know where they came from that Ive seen. The Red Wolves? Unless I'm much mistaken they're only appearance is on the (very poorly done) Galaxy Map in the 5th Edition Vanilla Codex. Given that there are Howling Griffons, White Panthers and so forth I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of Wolf named Chapter that's not connected to the Space Wolves but perhaps Skyrar's wolves come from them, perhaps not, wish we had more information on them. Speaking of wich.... with all the chaos mutations out there whats stopping chaos from mutating a wolves canis helix to make the inner wulfen work for the infernal beings? Its definitely a tzeentchi thing to do *see previously mentioned books as an example* but I could also see it being bent to khorne- a creatue who can be thrown at the enemy and whos only thought will be rage without mercy. Thats not to different than the red thirst, or blood for the blood good eh? Quite true, after all you never know for certain with Chaos. From what I can tell Lost companies are usually out there because they have said no I'm not working for him (the great wolf of the time) but havn't broken their oath to the imperium/emperor. They just thing they can do more good on their own. Maybe but they would still technically be Oath Breakers fro breaking their Oaths to the Great Wolf. A Space Wolf doesn't have to break all their oaths to be labeled as such, one is more than enough. ;) As far as chaos bending the will of a wolf while they're incontrol of their inner wolf I see that as unlikly. As you said it takes a great strength of will to keep the inner wolf at bay and it becomes even more ferocious when chaos is about so if chaos starts breaking your will to its own ends the defence is weekened and the wulfen takes control. The inner wolf gets stronger when faced by chaos but that doesn't mean it always wins or always swamps the SW in question. This is CHAOS we're talking about, the very thing that corrupted Horus and 8 other Primarchs. If Chaos can do that I don't think the Wulfen would be that difficult to tackle. So the Wulfen rises up in the marine, if a Chaos spell can make the Wulfen more difficult to resist, I see no reason why it couldn't also supress it, or why a Space Wolf would be able to supress it when enjoying the slaughter of Khorn, the Excess of Slaanesh and so on and so forth. The Wulfen may be a pretty good guard against Chaos but it is not impregnable or perfect. Only the Grey Knights have never fallen to Chaos once. indeed look at the wolf guard in wolf's honour, i can't remember his name, but he begins to believe he's cursed and all and feels forsaken but instead of going over to the chaos side the wulfen in him takes over, resulting in him killing the imperial officer and all of her loyal troops he can get his hands on, he even kills a fellow SW That's not proof though Hendrik, the whole purpose of the Chaos spell was to make the Wulfen overwhelm all the Space Wolves. Even a Wolf Guard Battle Leader couldn't resist the sheer power of the Chaos spell. If a chaos spell can manipulate the Wulfen one way, why could it not do so the other way? The magnitude of the spell was to effect the entire chapter on a sectorwide scale, I doubt such a thing couldn't be done on a smaller more individual scale and the other way as well. As for the Red corsairs in 3.5 edition not being chaos thats not entirly true. They might not have been full blown chaos scum but they did worship them a bit. If anybody can get hold of that story with the white scar(i think) who infiltrates a red corsair warband and then get found out and inturned into a chaos dred sarcopegous (sp) by huron I think. It makes a good read. The Astral Claws worshipped Chaos, but the majority of the Red Corsairs of that day were not Astral Claws, they were renegades from many different Chapters that didn't necessarily worship Chaos in any way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1898741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 But the red corsairs are led by Huron who was the astral claws leader. If the leader worships chaos its only a matter of time before all that follow him do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1898922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 indeed look at the wolf guard in wolf's honour, i can't remember his name, but he begins to believe he's cursed and all and feels forsaken but instead of going over to the chaos side the wulfen in him takes over, resulting in him killing the imperial officer and all of her loyal troops he can get his hands on, he even kills a fellow SW I havent read that book, but assuming its as you stated this bring a perfectly good reason for the wolves assaulted by huron... if the wulfen in a handful of SWs took over and they began to shred the bridge.... their own brothers would be the nearest. I really need to find that copy of C:CSM so I can check this out again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1898929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 But the red corsairs are led by Huron who was the astral claws leader. If the leader worships chaos its only a matter of time before all that follow him do. Eventually yes and it did happen, as is evidenced in the 5th Edition Codex the Red Corsairs went from a band of disparate Renegade Pirates to a full blown Chaos Space Marine Warband. But that's not how they started out. I havent read that book, but assuming its as you stated this bring a perfectly good reason for the wolves assaulted by huron... if the wulfen in a handful of SWs took over and they began to shred the bridge.... their own brothers would be the nearest. I really need to find that copy of C:CSM so I can check this out again. Actually that wasn't accurately described, Mikal Stenmark transformed into a Wulfen because of the influence of a Chaos Spell. However it wasn't the fact that it was a Chaos Spell that did that, not all Chaos spells would cause the Wulfen to take over, in this instance that happened because that was the purpose of the spell. It is NOT proof that the Wulfen is guard against chaos sorcery. Normally the Wulfen takes years to fully transform into the beasts we see in the 13th Company, Mikal and the other afflicted Blood Claws in the book transformed in a matter of moments all because of the Spell purposely amplifying the effects. Oh and Mikal didn't kill a fellow Space Wolf, neither Gunnar nor Morgrim were actually killed, they just got smacked around some. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1898986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dietrich Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Even as a SW player, I don't get why people have such an issue with SWs defecting to Chaos. GW has changed the fluff multiple times, and even put out contradictory fluff. Nine primarchs fell to the lure of chaos. Primarchs! Beings of great power, stature, nobility, and mental ability. A lot of the recent fluff has made it all to be 'possessed by a daemon'. I don't quite by that, although it makes it 'easy' to explain. I always felt that the primarchs fell because, at the end of the day, they're still human, and have human flaws. Vanity, pride, jealousy, envy, and other human emotions played a part in their fall. I figure it was easier for a daemon to possess Fulgrim due to his vanity, not just that it was a case of daemon possession. Now, I realize that it's not really nine that fell. Warning - spoilers! Curze didn't turn to Chaos because of the Corono Nox Alpharius/Omegon chose to side with Horus but not worship Chaos So, now we're up to 10 primarchs, but down 3. So, seven fell into the fold of Chaos. Seven primarchs! So, I don't have a problem with a few squads of Space Wolves falling to the lure of Chaos. I'm sure it could easily start as one SW being disgruntled that someone else was selected for an honor - maybe promotion to Wolf Guard. His packs agrees. They all get a little disgruntled. Chaos slowly draws him closer. Now, it's a chance to show he's really the better marine, maybe he kills the other marine. What does he do now? Admit to murder? no, he turns deeper to chaos. His pack follows, after all, they're all one pack. They may realize that they're now damned, but they can't go home either. They throw their lot in with Huron, or whoever, and go forward. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1899000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm sure it could easily start as one SW being disgruntled that someone else was selected for an honor - maybe promotion to Wolf Guard. His packs agrees. They all get a little disgruntled. Chaos slowly draws him closer. Now, it's a chance to show he's really the better marine, maybe he kills the other marine. What does he do now? Admit to murder? no, he turns deeper to chaos. His pack follows, after all, they're all one pack. They may realize that they're now damned, but they can't go home either. They throw their lot in with Huron, or whoever, and go forward. Nicely put, Just think what would have happened if not Ragnar but the grayskull became pack leader, how would Ragnar have felt Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1899726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Arrrrg Cheers Hendrik, I have just started reading Wolfs Honour and havent got to that bit yet. sorry mate:( i edited my post to apear in black Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1899817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 The blood of Fenris flows within us, we are the Emperor's Wolves, and the Son's of Russ. We are not perfect, we are nothing but flawed humans who constantly fight the Wulfen within, and because of that fight within ourselves we know what it is like to be more human than any other. Surrendering ourselves to an ideal of doing what is right and just; through our fist, our bolters and our blades. We do it for honor, for glory and even for respect. We do it out of instinct, for our pack brothers, for Fenris, for our beloved chapter and for our Wolf King. To the superficial we are nothing but barbarians on the edge of chaos, but our honor and our worth speaks more truth which are told in our sagas. Using each ordeal, each battle and great hunt to become better men and warriors of Fenris in the service of others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1900407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I have a squad of tratior wolves in my warband, Skylar's guys, normally I just play the 9 traitor legions but since I have several space wolf models lying around I decided to incorperate them into the warband anyway. Is it too much of stretch to believe that a few space wolves in 10,000 years would spit through the cracks and posses the will to overcome the Wulfen and serve Chaos?? I mean that's fine individual marines But I can also imagine a Lost Company fighting on some planet and some chaos sorceror catching then in a trap and corrupting them with sorcery, without acess to the rest of the chapter' Preists they could be corrupted. As for the Wolf of Fenris, it's a bit stupid but one of the White Dwarf guys has Traitor wolves as part of his Red Corsairs army, so that seems canon now. But in the end it's just a game really. If I think that traitor wolves would look cool when modeled then I will do it. But I woul dnot get to upset over it, after there are a lot more loyalist wolves and I think they would be happy to ''redeem'' their traitorous brethren. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1900794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 As for the Wolf of Fenris, it's a bit stupid but one of the White Dwarf guys has Traitor wolves as part of his Red Corsairs army, so that seems canon now. But in the end it's just a game really. If I think that traitor wolves would look cool when modeled then I will do it. But I woul dnot get to upset over it, after there are a lot more loyalist wolves and I think they would be happy to ''redeem'' their traitorous brethren. aye, it is just a game and a great one, but your playing on the wrong team LOL jk ;) only the deaths of those traitor wolves would they redeem themselves if their lucky. Pray to your chaos gods that you find a quick death from my battle brothers here at the Fang, pray that your that lucky. For I am not as lenient as they, bahahaha no ale for you good sir no ale for you and your warband of traitor wolves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1900978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 As for the Wolf of Fenris, it's a bit stupid but one of the White Dwarf guys has Traitor wolves as part of his Red Corsairs army, so that seems canon now. But in the end it's just a game really. If I think that traitor wolves would look cool when modeled then I will do it. But I woul dnot get to upset over it, after there are a lot more loyalist wolves and I think they would be happy to ''redeem'' their traitorous brethren. aye, it is just a game and a great one, but your playing on the wrong team LOL jk :ph34r: only the deaths of those traitor wolves would they redeem themselves if their lucky. Pray to your chaos gods that you find a quick death from my battle brothers here at the Fang, pray that your that lucky. For I am not as lenient as they, bahahaha no ale for you good sir no ale for you and your warband of traitor wolves Bring it on worshipper of the Carrion God. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1901270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kittenofdeath Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 well i agree that it would be foolish to claim that no space wolf has ever fallen, its a thin line that divides pride and hubris, and to make such a claim would fall in to the latter catigory, which is why as a space wolf, i swallow my pride and say that we do have traitorous brethren out there however, that wolf of fenris crap? no way in any warp, hell or abyss would that happen, i have a hard time believeing that any marine would fall like that, let alone a space wolf, no space marine would fall to chaos because of fear, it takes a far more subtle touch to turn a marine, and it takes a hell of a lot more than that to turn a space wolf on his own pack Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1901284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 That true, sw can fall individually but they way they turned in that stupid story was just unbelievable. Badly written and thoughout. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1901459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Bring it on worshipper of the Carrion God. ^_^ He's not a God to us but our liege lord - the All Father - and, thus, not worshipped but venerated. That's just one of the reasons many in the Imperium think us heretics. I know that it's easy to loose track of things in the Eye of Terror but do try to keep up :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1901602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 It's hard for the Imperium to call us heretics though as we can always wake up Bjorn and ask: "hey, what DID the Emperor say?" That tends to shut them up quick. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161410-oath-breakers/page/3/#findComment-1901607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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