multiple units in one assault

[Reglor]

It seems many of you are overlooking the basic Assault rules when trying to argue this.

 

From the Tyranid perspective, here is the assault situation:

 

Warriors: multiple combat against 10-man squad and red marine.

Gaunt: Single combat against red marine.

Carnifex: Multiple combat against 5-man squad and Red Marine.

 

Now, the red marine DIED. Figure out what to do.

 

Warriors only remaining opponent would be 10-man squad.

Gaunt is no longer locked in CC.

Carnifex only remaining opponent is 5-man squad.

 

From the Marine perspective:

10-man squad: Single combat against Warriors.

Red Marine: Multiple combat against Gaunt and Warriors and Fex. (sad day for him...)

5-man squad: Single combat against the Carnifex.

 

Each assault is resolved independently. Read the %#(*@% assault rules!

 

End result (assuming SM's turn):

 

Gaunt's only opponent that they were locked in CC against was the Red Marine, who died. Thus the Gaunt gets a consolidation move.

Warriors were exterminated. They were the only CC opponent with the 10-man squad. Thus the 10-man squad gets a consolidation move.

Carnifex and 5-man squad still locked in CC. Pile-in SM models (from the 5-man squad ONLY) to get more into BtB with the Fex.

 

Some of you seem to believe that if Unit A is locked into combat with X, and Unit B is locked into combat with X and Y, that A somehow gets to pile-in to Y. This is complete and utter horsecrap and unsupported by the rules in any way. Read the Assault rules.

 

I have read the assault rules. There is only one combat here, not 6 combats. This combat involves more than two units, so it is a multiple combat. It is resolved in one go. After you determin who dies and/or runs away all units involved in this combat than pile-in towards enemy models also involed in this combat.

 

You spliting this into more than one combat is not supported by the rules.

[Trekari]

Wrong, but thanks for playing!

 

Your consolation prize is the Warhammer 40k 5th edition rulebook, pages 33-41.

[SeattleDV8]

In this case Page 41 is the only one needed.

The example given did have one mistake, the gaunt could have been attacked only by the red marine, but that has no bearing on the question.

The Northern marine squad was engaged with the fex.

The south eastern and south western Marine squad was engaged with the warriors.

The red marine was engaged with the fex, gaunt and warriors.

All of the units were involved in One combat.

At the end of the assault phase the Nids have caused 1 wound, the marines have caused 4 (discounting the gaunt)

The Nid player has lost the combat by 3, morale tests or no retreat wounds as per the rules.

Again... for the third time (please read it this time)

BRB pg. 41 "After assault resolution, all units that were involved in that multipe combat must make pile-in moves towards enemies that fought in that combat."

All of the units in this example fought in one combat therefore MUST pile-in .

You might want to take your own advice and read the rules.

[Trekari]

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[Khorneeq]

Hello,

 

I think I need to add one thing to discussion.

The complexity of this situation was well discribed by Frosty the Pyro explaining who was engaged with who, but it was even more complex!

Wonderbraa you said that you have missed Cassius at purpose as this didn't matter in this case. You could have been wrong (as I didn't know where he used to stay) because in close combat independent characters are treated as separate units. So in total it gave us multiple combat of eight different units. As it was a multiple combat no unit could consolidate until all opponents forces were destroyed/fleed and they have to pile in.

 

Hope I haven't blurred it too much :rolleyes:

[Captain of The Inceptors]

DV8 has it I think.

 

I'm just drawing it up now but I have an even more complicated issue regularly occuring!

[Captain of The Inceptors]

I have a problem similar to this quite often, due to the way I play, but here was the worst one.

 

Right here it goes,

here are the forces involved.

http://number1zero.jak.googlepages.com/ccd1.jpg

I'm the blue side with Pedro Kantor.

 

Now I charge into the units thusly

http://number1zero.jak.googlepages.com/ccd2.jpg

His units make the "Defenders React"

/number1zero.jak.googlepages.com/ccd3.jpg

Now we have a Multiple-combat

This means that all are involved against everyone (from opposing armies) however it does not mean anyone can attack anyone. A unit in base to base combat must allocate where his attacks will be made.

 

This is where I pause to talk this over with my opponent. (I11, I like that idea ^_^ )

 

In this case we decide that all models can attack (models are within 2inches of a model in B2B contact. We know this as bases are 0.93inches wide and that means you can fit 3 models in behind the base to base model)

As they are in base to base they have to assault there opposite number so here are the must haves;

2 from Tactical1 that must attack the assault squad,

1-4 from Tactical2 must attack Calgar,

1-4 from Tactical2 must attack into RedTactical1.

Now there are 2 areas I focus on, the Chaplain squad and the Calgar squad. I reason the Chaplain squad to be more dangerous to me so I will use all of Tactical2 against the assault squad and all of Tactical1 against the chaplain(he's a mean mofo!)

Pedro and the Sterngaurd will attack the RedTactical1.

Calgar has been left alone, I reason that I will need Pedro and the sterngaurd with whatevers left of Tactical2 to kill him.

 

The assault goes in this order:

Pedro & Calgar simultaneously,

Chaplain, assault and all tactical marines simultaneously.

 

Due to Pedro's +1 attack bonus given to every friendly model in this combat I do reasonably well

The RedTactical1 squad flee but as I am locked in combat I may not sweeping advance and they disengage safely (Calgar's god of war allows them to fail there morale test and fall back to their home objective, gits :verymad:) but he decides the assualt squad should stay in the fight.

 

PILE IN!!!

http://number1zero.jak.googlepages.com/ccd4.jpg

Now Pedro and Calgar go toe-to-toe and I was lucky Pedro wins! :D

Now the Sternguard may not fight as they don't not have any base to base contact and they may not shoot as they are still engaged in this assault (and of course it's past the shooting phase :P )

the rest of the tactical squads may now mop up. The tactical sqaud that could have attacked toward Calgar (Tactical2) do not as it says in the rule book that they announce who they will attack immediately before they roll to hit.

 

The moral of the story is: Pedro rules.

 

I believe that this is the way that the rules define how it should go but if anyone has any comments to make I'm ready to listen because it took ages to get through this game!

[Trekari]

Models in BtB with a unit must attack that unit. You could not have attacked the Assault squad with all of your Tac 2 guys, as some were in BtB with Calgar's tac squad.

 

Models within 2" of a figure in BtB, but not in BtB themselves must direct their attacks against the same target as the BtB figure. (Unless you have more than one figure that allows the non-BtB model to attack, in which case you declare which target)

 

Likewise, all of Tac 1 is not allowed to direct their attacks against the Chaplain for the same reason. If they are not in BtB with the Chaplain, and are not within 2" of a model that is - while at the same time NOT being in BtB with a different unit, then they cannot direct attacks against him.

 

Remember the basics - if you are in BtB with a unit, you MUST attack that unit. Only when in BtB with more than one (on a per-model basis) unit, or not being in BtB but within 2" of someone that is, do you get the option of whom to direct attacks against.

[Captain of The Inceptors]

You are correct I will edit that now.

I'm seeing that there are 2 from Tactical1 that must attack the assault squad

1-4 from Tactical2 must attack Calgar

1-4 from Tactical2 must attack into RedTactical1

 

this is right, right?

[Trekari]

Looks like you could almost have 8 guys from Tac 2 attacking Calgar if you chose to.

 

The Defenders react phase was not quite done properly either, as you have to maximize BtB as the defender as well.

[nighthawks]

Trekari - I am having trouble finding a rule that supports your position that there are multiple combats, not multiple units in ONE combat. could you expand, please?

[Trekari]

Due to the Red Marine being in BtB with the Fex, I was wrong.

 

Had the Fex been engaged only with the 5-man squad, that would've been a separate combat all on its own.

[angronn]

Came in too late for the argument, but re: the red marine linking the combat together, think about it in terms of comparing initiatives. Because the red marine links the Carnifex and the Warriors, all the Space Marines would be going at the same initiative level 4 (because you would have compared the red marine to the Tyranids, and then all the other marines to the Tyranids) and lo! multiple combat.

 

EDIT: I was a bit confused as well at first, though, not noticing the link up with the red marine. Sometimes it feels like proximity should create a multiple combat, but if there's no BTB between combatants, there's no multiple combat. I agree on that point!