Chaos Bikers

[djkest]

Okay, so I played a game against Blood Angels, and he had some attack bikes with multi-meltas. I found out that they are 50 points each. For blowing up vehicles, our bikes are terrible. They are 43 points with a meltagun. They are exactly 1/2 as durable, and have 1/2 the range, have to be 6" away to be in melta range. Now factor in you have to take a minimum unit, and you can have a maximum of 2 meltaguns. Our bikes are just terrible by comparison (for blowing up vehicles).

 

I guess you could say our bikes are more durable than raptors, and could be used in combat. We can also take icons for more utility (although, that makes them also expensive).

 

The MM attack bikes are just too good for 50 points, OR ours are too crappy for the points we pay for them. It takes a lot of shots to bring even one 50 point attack bike down, and in one game (1) bike killed a vindicator, a rhino, and 2 marines. :/

 

I guess that is the point of chaos though, we aren't loyalists, and we don't have all the good stuff like they do.

[Corrupted]

Attack bikes are great for the points, and if you look at the new marine book and compare point costs our bikes should be 24 points a pop.

[JamesI]

Attack bikes are great.

 

Chaos bikes, not so much. Then again, I don't like loyalist non-attack bikes either (exceptions for Ravenwing and Vanilla when used as troops)

[Zhukov]

I think they kinda suck too, big time. Especially cause I was used to the sm ones before I sold my sm army. Chaos ones are just way overpriced, with their only reall advantage the +1 attack due to 2 cc weapons...

Dont bother with them.

(hmmm this brings me to the point that I hate our fast attack section...spawn being awfull too and raptars mediocre at best)

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Ours are made bad by being so expensive, and by us losing a cc attack if we take a special weapon since it replaces our ccw.

[sexiest_hero]

they can't summon daemons from thiers after a turbo boost. Take 3 bikes and let the daemon bombing fly. As for not as good, their preds are better, their land raiders are better, their commanders are better, their special chars are better, thier dreads are better, and their psykers are better.

[Bonham1963]

Chaos bikers can be useful. Throw 5 (including a champ with a fist and meltabombs), 2 meltas and icon of Nurgle and you got a pretty tough vehicle hunting team. May not be tourney competitive, but it can be fun and distracting, so other units can do their jobs.

[Cornelias]

guy in my gaming group uses chaos attack bikes in his nightlords army for apoc :)

 

he's always moaning about not being able to use them in normal games.......

[Roultox]

Differences.

 

First, the new loyalist codex explains it all.. It's >NEW< meaning that any changes made to chaos without FAQ's would mean in pubishing a whole new book. And doing so would anger other gamers because they had their armies in line (space wolves, black templars, dark eldar, etc). So then for any points complaints, take it outside.

 

Next, let us point out the best differences between the bikes.

 

We get two CCW for melee. +1 attack. That means they have to pay, what - for two bikes for that extra attack, charge bonuses not considered. That's 50 Points for one chaos bike for melee, oh and it enhances the fact we all get turbo boost, we get those extra attacks in for cheaper.

 

Next, we have synergy, all of our icons have a use in melee. One way or another, they all are wonderful, so that sort of puts us as the cavalry of 40k, rather then as the "Attila the Hun" of 40k like loyalists must be if they are to bring back their cost.

 

We get 2 meltaguns like all the other loyalist bikers. Except, we dont waste our heavy bolters and multimeltas for melee combat. We get in close for flame, melta and rapid fire plasma goodness.

 

Next is the downfall of bikes.. Big weapons like to hit us, because they're easy kills for high points for any bike. A krak missile can kill two bikes of any kind and bring back his worth. A krak missile can also one shot kill an attack bike. AN attack bike cannot wear a lascannon and a plasma cannon like an obliterator. This is the loyalist 'obliterator', I just laughed a little...

 

Next as someone already mentioned, yet another bonus of turbo boost is revealed, daemon bombing. well deep strike bombing, which ravenwing and loyalists gleefully took this tactic for teleport homers, we teleport terminators, obliterators and daemons(greater daemons too) and even friendly daemons from a second list on the same side from the Daemon Codex. Sure loyalists can teleport homer for other armies on their side, but chaos has a teleport homer+daemon homer.

 

So then, what other army can pack toughness 6 bikes? Lets take a gander at what that REALLY means.

 

Carnifex, usually 5 attacks on the charge, toughness 6 and 3+ armor save with 4 wounds.

Chaos bikes, 4 bikers(wounds), icon of nurgle, 3+ armor save and a champ with 4 powerfist attacks+9 regular attacks+2 special weapons+any additional characters that joined+24" turbo boost(3+ cover save), + homing teleporters + having a unit size up to 10... Did I forget anything?

 

The power of a chaos bike unit and its sunergy with the rest of chaos is a very powerful unit to use. Loyalist bikes rely on numerosity and making use of their speed to keep a distance or get close for a few guns and no melee punch. (Getting close for just shooting, chaos all has a bit more to offer, right?)

 

Loyalists, well.... If they keep their range to just shoot, we can just use troops(sonic noise marines/thousand sons) to shoot right back, and be a scoring unit.

 

 

Consider all of chaos before complaining about one or two units another power armored codex can field.

[chillin]

I wouldn't say our bikes "suck", they are over priced though, so there are better options for almost anything you would use bikers for.

[djkest]

Carnifex, usually 5 attacks on the charge, toughness 6 and 3+ armor save with 4 wounds.

Chaos bikes, 4 bikers(wounds), icon of nurgle, 3+ armor save and a champ with 4 powerfist attacks+9 regular attacks+2 special weapons+any additional characters that joined+24" turbo boost(3+ cover save), + homing teleporters + having a unit size up to 10... Did I forget anything?

Carnifex would be what, 130 points?

Your biker unit is (4 x 33) + 15 (champ) + 25 (fist) + 50 (icon) + 20 (2 meltaguns) = 242 points, which comes out to ~60 points a model.

 

That would be (3) powerfist attacks, 1.5 hits on average, 7 melee attacks at str 4 (melta guys dont' have bolt pistol, check codex) and still like we said before, need 6" range to have a chance at wrecking a heavy vehicle.

 

Versus a carnifex, it would go before the fist, wounding on 2+ with no armor save, killing 2-3, might put 1 wound on it with the fist, and lose the combat by 1 or 2. Melta guns on average would take 1 wound off for every 2 shots.

 

For 150 points, you could take 3 attack bikes with multi-meltas, 3 shots instead of 2, 24"/12" range being double, at least twice as effective for 92 less points. Oh yes, and 6 wounds vs. 4.

 

 

You can't say our fast attack choices suck because we can get obliterators- that is heavy support and I don't use them anyway.

 

But I digress. We can agree to disagree, but I don't think I will change my mind on this issue.

[Roultox]

I didnt make a points comparison rather then an army working in unison. A bolter can be fired from a 16 point model, instead of a 25 point model that has turbo boost. If that model runs into melee, its a slightly tougher version of the 16 point model.

 

I listed the carnifex as a durability and offence ability comparison, and you forget to add the charge bonuses.

 

Attack bikes are ranged, and the speed they have is merely used to stay out of close combat and get the melta in effective range. They are built for their weapon. Chaos bikes are built for melee and getting close. Its no loss that we dont have attack bikes in chaos. In fact it would blurr their distinction and role to the point of misusing the bikes for trying to shoot the enemy. (Aside from the 3 bike 2 plasma gun unit)

 

1 Bike unit of 10, Icon of Nurgle, Champ with Powerfist, 2 Meltaguns, Bike Sorcerer with warptime

Now, putting aside the major cost for bikes, does it seem like its like using a land raider, without the drawback of being a one trick pony... Loyalists have no melee bikes, other then massing numbers to make up for it. Marine stats scream for melee, otherwise your only using ballistic skill in difference, while being shot with high AP weapons more then likely.

 

Poor loyalists ;) ... Being fast and shooty is meant for the much cheaper/less melee stat oriented races. Put a bike under a marine and it becomes redundant if melee is not a strongpoint.

[the jeske]

Now, putting aside the major cost for bikes, does it seem like its like using a land raider, without the drawback of being a one trick pony.

dont know , but they die to low ap blasts just like normal csm and unlike guys siting in LR they can he lashed , eldraded double taped with drop pod units etc . As much as I dislike the LR armies for being one trick ponies , as you call it , they are way better at surviving stuff + unlike bikes the unit in the LR is scoring .

[Zhukov]

Ah c'mon that bike unit costs 600 points... You cannot be serious about that one, I wont believe it. Thats almost 3 land raiders lol.

[the jeske]

nope an HQ tooled up lord [or abadon/tyfus]+ compulsory bodyguard [zerkers or pms] +LR = more or less 600pts.

[Roultox]

Getting hit by str6 power weapons and under, will change your mind on taking toughness 6 bikes.

[Gree]

Getting hit by str6 power weapons and under, will change your mind on taking toughness 6 bikes.

If you are charging a power weapon unit with marines then you are doing something wrong in the first place. Nurgle bikers are great against Guard, turbo boost first turn, they can't kill you with the turbo save, second turn unload termies and daemons into the line.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Thats a cool idea on paper gree if you ignore any probability of failure. Yeah they'll mulch guard in melee, but guard tend to have things like lemen russes, which is that units worst nightmare. And reserve units only have 50% chance to come in second turn. There are much cheaper bike configs for DS delivery.

[djkest]

Wait, so a 600 point unit of bikers will beat a 90 point guardsman unit? No way. ;)