Runes

[Brother Tyler]

Yes, the provenance of runic symbols is much older than the 20th Century and current organizations derived therefrom. However, there are a number of illegal groups that use these runes and there's nothing wrong with avoiding the use of certain runes if players want to avoid any inadvertent association with those groups. To ascribe any recognition of runes to hate groups based on an individual's subliminal thought processes falls woefully short of the actual truth. There are people who know the current associations behind these runes based on their own backgrounds - some people actually have to know about these things in order to identify members of illegal groups. People involved in law enforcement, especially those who deal with hate crimes, organized crime, and prisons, have a need to know. Likewise, members of the military and educators might know. And of course there's nothing wrong with the average citizen being educated in such things, especially if they want to avoid being associated with whatever activities the runes might imply. Yes, some stuff might be exaggerated - the average citizen might not make any connection between a rune or combination of runes and any illegal groups, but those who know can make connections quite easily. Sometimes the use of a rune might be innocent, the user not knowing that there are hidden (modern) meanings to the rune and what it implies. At other times, though, the use of a rune is intentional and implies something, typically an association with a specific group or philosophy. For players to knowingly avoid using such runes in order to avoid any unintended unpleasantness is circumspect.

 

So let's get back on topic...

 

If there are runes that don't have any current (illegal) associations, please post them here. Likewise, if there are specific runes or combinations of runes that should be avoided, it's fine to post those here, too. We don't need to get into too much detail about the reasons other than to identify what shouldn't be used. Likewise, we don't need to continue with the off topic discussions about specific groups, etc.

 

Let's just keep this on topic and answer the question.

[flintlocklaser]

Well said, Br. Tyler. And it's true that the vast majority of runes, from whatever origin, aren't associated with extremist groups. It might be easier to just have a list of the ones that do have a negative connotation, and the ADL website I mentioned last night is up and running again, so here's the link.

Again, most of the runes are not tied to racism, and even the ones that are, frequently have legitimate uses in other contexts. But if you want to steer totally clear, this is a decent resource.

[GunnarRedsun]

thank you very much brother tyler for your words on the subject, and for spelling everything out so well. Thank you flintlocklaser for the site, that is exactly what i had been hoping to get from the begining. so thank you both again for your words, and your help. cheers mates! :)

[Vash113]

For players to knowingly avoid using such runes in order to avoid any unintended unpleasantness is circumspect.

 

I really don't see the point, we're talking about little plastic models, I doubt anyone assossiated with Law Enforcement or the Military would think runes painted on models mean the owner is connected to any of the modern organisations that make use of them, I find the whole premise frankly rather rediculous or at the very least so extraordinarily unlikely to be best not bothered with. Hense the reactions of most everyone in this thread so far and the direction the discussion has taken. Besides even if by the odd chance that you do have a negatively assossiated rune it's not like the whole army is likely to have that same rune or combination everywhere and thus suggest the assossiation, in the context of an army bedecked with runes I don't see how anyone could draw a negative connection.

 

I have an old belt buckle from the Boy Scouts that has several images of the Sun Wheel on it. I still wear it even if the occasional idiot comes up to me and complains there's a swastika on my belt, their ignorance is not my concern and I seriously doubt any law enforcement agent would come close to assossiating me with the skin heads. :)

 

It's really not a big concern and when your talking about what comes down to little plastic toys that most people see as little more than army men and I think making a big deal out of it is an overreaction at best.

 

After all the Swastika is a symbol for buddhist temples and usually emblazoned on said temples like shown here:

 

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m307/Vash113/buddhist_temple.jpg

 

But that doesn't mean Buddhist Temples are headquarters for neo-nazi's.

 

Besides, if we're being that paranoid why post those negative runes and their assossiated combinations here? That would just make the B&C pop up in searches for those things.

 

The best solution IMO for anyone actually concerned is just to link to one of the many previously mentioned sites where information on runes can be found and if necessary links to information about the negative connections.

[GunnarRedsun]

actually vash, that symbol is a specific character in their language, and is always presented that way. typically, neo-nazi's tip the swatstika on its side, or use it in conjunction with other images.

[Vash113]

actually vash, that symbol is a specific character in their language, and is always presented that way. typically, neo-nazi's tip the swatstika on its side, or use it in conjunction with other images.

 

Nevertheless anyone... silly enough to make a deal over such symbols won't know the difference. There are always some but it doesn't mean the Buddhists should stop using that character or even try to avoid it. Likewise I don't see why anyone should avoid using Runes that have been unlucky enough to gain a negative use in modern times.

[GunnarRedsun]

i wish that you could understand my position better vash, but it simply is not as simple as that.

[Vash113]

i wish that you could understand my position better vash, but it simply is not as simple as that.

 

I understand you want to avoid those things and that's fine, hense linking to the appropriate information which has already been done. Nevertheless I can't see how a tiny rune painted on a little plastic figure can create problems.

 

Regardless I also don't think posting up the negatively assossiated runes or combination of runes here is a good idea. A more constructive thing would be if someone wanted to write up an article on simple Runes and their meanings for use on Space Wolf models (particularly those without negative meanings), would make a good Librarium article if anyone's interrested in doing that. :lol:

[GunnarRedsun]

well first vash, i would like to apoligize, as i misinterprated your post. it does seem you understand my point, so again i'm sorry. i can also agree that posting all the negative ones could be detrimental, which is why i was so happy flintlocklaser posted the link to the ADL site. but you do raise a very good point though, an article outlining some positive runes and known meanings and associations would be great, and very helpful, and i personally would be more than happy to do so (with a little help perhaps).

[Vash113]

No appology necessary, just have some ale! :lol:

 

That said an article can always be a collaborative project, could even started in this very thread. Tips on how to paint and model runes would also likely be usefull like 200Plus has done on his Priest here.

[GunnarRedsun]

indeed that is very true vash, and i think that this is a good place to start. um...i had more to say, but my memory just shut down...so...um...yeah...i agree with you vash :D

[Combat_Vet]

@Gunnar - I have the day off work today, so I'll look around and try to knock up a decent list of runes with pics and meanings. I'm not sure it'll help much but we can try.

 

Better days,

[Madsakre]

http://www.crystalinks.com/futhark.gif

[Madsakre]

it would be cool if you put a "th"/Thurisaz rune on your dreads. because it means "giant"/jette

[Combat_Vet]

cool. Made my job easier. :lol:

 

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w291/meadows88/futharkexplain.gif

 

1) Fehu - earnings, luck, hope

2) Uruz - primal strength, raw power, courage (warrior's rune)

3) Thurisaz - conflict, controlled force

4) Ansuz - Odin's rune, wisdom, blessings (warrior's rune)

5) Raidho - Thor's rune, change, travel (warrior's rune)

6) Kenaz - vision, controlled power

7) Wunjo - glory, pleasure

8) Hagalaz - uncontrolled force, nature, weather

9) Eihwaz - strength, endurance, reliability

10) Sowilo - honor, victory

11) Tiwaz - Tyr's rune, justice, victory in battle (warrior's rune)

12) Ehwaz - loyalty, transportation

13) Mannaz - mankind, awareness

14) Dagaz - Dawn, change, protection from evil (warrior's rune)

 

This is of course very brief and very simple. They all have different meanings in reversed. The red ones are used by the bad people, but you can see why. I say use them as you see fit, just for looks or to spell out words on your mini's. They really only have the meaning we ourselves apply to them. The runes don't "belong" to anyone, if we let people take what they want it only makes them stronger. Just don't get into a fight over something as simplistic as our toy soldiers. Hope it helps a little.

 

++As a side note, I have runes tattooed from my right elbow to my right wrist. In order they are; happiness, odin, thor, sacrifice, gift and protection. W-A-R G-O-D ++

 

Better days,

[Vash113]

Hey 200Plus think you could make a small tutorial on how you modeled your runes on your Priest recently? Those looked superb but I can never work with Green Stuff in such a way and it would greatly help people trying to do that me thinks.

[Combat_Vet]

I put something together. If anyone needs something more, please just let me know.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=162088

 

Better days,

[GunnarRedsun]

thanks a lot 200plus! that really helps out a lot. now i jsut need to get to work on my rune priests...

[Marek Grimfang]

^ Nice Tut on runes.

 

I am Law Enforcement. No rune is negative and none of them should be shyed away from, no matter who says what they mean or are accepted to mean. Doing so is censorship based on one small speck of time in history. The sun wheel or swaztika is still a prominant part of Germany's architecture, even when most of its visage had been removed from buildings once the Third Reich had fallen. Some are still present.

 

I have many Military and Police brothers and sisters, and we all have runes in one way or another since they are an accepted tattoo used to denote the inner warrior spirit or soul within ones self.

 

The WolfAngel or WolfHook was mentioned earlier. That is a Rune used by Hitlers various regiments and was prominently seen on the right hand collar.

 

Wanting to post what is acceptable and what is not won tcut it, since it will then go further and other religious or faith based symbols should also be banned from here in picture and discusion, since runes are part of a nordic faith.

[flintlocklaser]

No rune is negative and none of them should be shyed away from, no matter who says what they mean or are accepted to mean.

 

The OP has perfectly good reasons to want to avoid runes that have been adopted by groups that he has had negative contacts with in his personal life. For him, and for other people that have had similar bad experiences, or just for those of us who find groups like that repellent, those runes carry more negative weight than positive. So he's got every right to ask which ones carry those connotations, and there's no reason for anyone to try and tell him that he has to feel differently, or try and stop him from finding out this information.

[Grey Mage]

While I agree that no rune is nessecairily negative.... norse runes were not fluffy bunnies galavanting through fields of marshmellows to 70s pop-rock. Alot of them have to do with destruction, and in a mystical sense any of them could be used against someone. They are basic concepts.

 

That being said while I agree that I dont think anyone should shy away from using any of the elder or younger futhark its his minis.... and he can paint them how he wants and I wont complain... unless theyre pink. Id probly be upset to see a pink space wolf army. Sorry.

 

That being said there are a number of younger futhark runes that are unused by the neo-nazi groups, I highly reccomend them since your having societal issues. Except for the one that resembles Nauthiz *ie the stick with two diagonal lines going through it near the middle* Ive never seen any of these associated with a hate group.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Futhark would be a good place to start Im sure.

[Marek Grimfang]

The alternative is to somehow mutate a rune or two into one of your own.

 

Who's to say 40,000 years later, the runic alphabet would not evolve.

[Long Fang]

I have a Wolf tooth necklace with a tyr rune on it (me not a mini). Its a Rune that here at least has no negative meaning and is firmly seen as viking/nordic/etc.

 

"He [Tyr] is invoked by those who seek justice, and help in binding the wolves of war." Quoted from an article about the god tyr, can be found in 'mountain thunder' a pagan magazine or HERE

I choose to use it to refer to the older meaning (Warrior/victory), not least as I said there is no negative meaning for it here.

 

I understand and support your stance on some runes tho brother, its just a shame you need to take it.

 

Long Fang

[Ragner Blackmane]

This happened to me as well but I found some sites and picture that I'll try and put the link to on here :-Viking Rune Letters

 

 

That helped me so it may help you to

 

WL Blackmane :tu:

[Lord Ragnarok]

Gents, (and bearded ladies) Thanks for keeping this thread on topic and positive. I think this is a very worthy effort.