How do you get anti-tank into your lists

[Yeti]

The title pretty much says it all ... how do you Wolf Lords ensure enough AT firepower in your lists and where do you get it from?

 

With my recent return, 5th ed and the new C:SM, I've had to rework my list and I'm having trouble fitting in enough AT. My 4th ed lists featured Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and a Pred Anni. The AT capacities of the assault cannon have been nerfed (and with good reason!) and the Anni has had a substantial points increase.

 

Specifically:

 

1) Is the pred anni still worth it?

 

2) What are your opinions of Multi meltas on speeders?

[Dark Bjoern]

I´m running around with four dreads, two Razorbacks, one Land Speeder and one Attack Bike in a 1500 points list.

Ven Dread: AC, DCCW/HF

Dread: AC, DCCW/HF

Dread: TLLC, ML

Dread: TLLC, ML

Razorback: TLAC

Razorback: TLLC

Land Speeder: MM

Attack Bike: MM

that´s more then enough to take out tanks. And the two GH packs still have a PF and a meltagun each as a small backup.

And as a weapon of last resort i can still ramming enemy vehicles with the Rhino of my Blood Claws.

 

The Pred Anni works best in pairs. For my Salamanders i´m using two all the times and they had been very effective.

 

ATM i´m testing an Attack Bike with MM for my SW. It replaced one off my two Land Speeders in my list. The Attack Bike is cheaper and less vunerable then a Land Speeder.

[Vassakov]

Are Predator Annilihators still worth it?

 

If you're playing a big game or there are a lot of Tanks on the board then yes, as 3 Lascannons will pound most armour easily. They'll also hurt monsterous creatures or other very hard units (Termies, Oblits, Broadsides etc.) On the other hand, they are expensive these days - a similar role can be filled by a Vindicator or Pack of Wolf Scouts for less points. Also, if you have no armour in your force and just add one Predator, I'd give it 2 turns max. Then the enemy AT fire will take it down. In a Mech List, they can be great. In other lists, especially Pod Lists, perhaps less so.

 

The other consideration is that in CC you now hit the REAR armour of the enemy - suddenly, those Power Fists look very nasty against all vehicles. As mentioned, a pack of Wolf Scouts can wreak terrible havoc with a Pack Leader with a Thunder Hammer, Melta Bombs and a Meltagun. Of course, this breaks down about the point you face Mech Eldar/Tau, who you will struggle against.

 

2) What are your opinions of Multi meltas on speeders?

 

Haven't used them, but with speed and manouverability plus the most potent AT weapon vs. Tanks in the game (outside of Apocalypse) I can see it being a winner.

[lunchb0x]

Fist + power = Anti tank.

 

 

I key my lists like this, tanks are anti infantry, infantry are anti tank....its worked wonders!

[G. A. K.]

I use the three pronged approach of the las/missle ven dread, 4 wolf scouts with a melta and melta bombs, and the vindi. the dread has range and if they stay back from the vindi the scouts will get them. it also helps to have my rune priest obsure the vindi each turn too.

 

G

[Sven Bloodskull]

I would prefer Attack bikes with Multi-melta's over Land speeders. An Attack Bike can withstand allot more firepower, plus, it cant be glanced. It is also 10 points cheaper and can lock down small units in combat.

 

Other than the 2 attack bikes i have, i use Ven Dreads with TLLC and ML, LRR with MM and a Vindy for AT.

 

And pred's are now IMHO now only usefull for anti infantry, which the Vindy is better at.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

My anti-tank is largely filled by meltaguns and power fists, with the occasional thunder hammer if I can afford it. Wolf scouts are also particularly effective against any unit, particularly tanks, which sit in their deployment zone blasting away. Consider melta bombs for them too.

 

Beyond that, dreadnoughts and vindicators also work, but might die quickly if you your opponent has alot of firepower. I find both to be more flexible (i.e. effective against infantry as well) than AT predators and attack bikes. IMHO anyway

[OnlyInDeath]

I agree with much of what is posted above (personally, love the OBEL scouts and TLLC/ML vendread for popping armor). And while a lot of people are talking down about preds, there is one config that has been incredibly useful for me over the years:

 

TLLC turret, heavy bolter sponsons.

 

The points cost for this config is REALLY low, and I love how effective it is. The problem with overly dedicated tank hunters is that often, by mid battle, i found myself without any armor targets to shoot at! With this config on a pred, you have a healthy anti-infantry model to make use of after popping some tanks the first few rounds of shooting. Obviously, it isnt the BEST at tanking out tanks, and you might have to have another "dedicated" tank hunter in the army (usually came from my vendread, see above), but this pred config has seen my through many battles and it's flexibility shouldnt be underestimated.

[WG Vrox]

I don't count on one type of delivery system, instead I spread it around,

 

I run my HQs with PF and TH. my WGPL in TA with SS/CF

My GHs all run with a Melta Gun

At least 2 AB with MMs

I use OBEL scouts with Melta Guns, however even a PP against rear armor is quite effective.

A Vindicator with its ST 10 makes for a very effective tank buster when no soft targets need demolished.

In high point games, a regular Land Raider with 2 TLLC /Multi Melta and machine spirit makes for an outstanding tank hunter.

 

However the real winner is going to be your Melta weapons AP1 is definitly your friend in 5th edition.

 

WG Vrox

[Grey Mage]

In say 1.5k? I runa predator annihilator with heavy bolters, a vendread with assault cannon, a WGBL with assault cannon, a lil bit of plasma, and a CC squad with a meltagun. My fire support squads have some of that plasma and while the powerfist in each is technically anti-tank its really just insurance. Ive also fallen in love with whirlwinds, and use a pair of attack bikes whenever I can squeeze them in and what Ive found is that against light tanks like rhinos etc or even enemy predators a good heavy bolter to the side armor will atleast stun the bastard. I also have two speeders with multimelta(s) wich Ill trot out if Im feeling to "naked".

 

As long as they arent firing the rest of my army has time to advance, and then I can utilize close-range solutions as I need to, and if Im lucky the long range will solve it more permanently.

 

Against a landraider heavy list Id be in some trouble.... but then, Ive never seen more than two in a list around here..... and thats a rare occaision. The model is just expensive, only a couple of guys can afford more than one.

[Yeti]

Thanks for the replies and the ideas ... hand't thought of attack bikes with multi meltas ... now I gotta go buy some!

 

I'm working up a list for at HoH tourny at the end of the month and in the games I've played recently ... I've felt the AT lacking. After getting abused by some IG (but pulling out and in extremis win!) and seeing a nidzila list rip through other players, it got me thinking of my own list.

 

ATM I've got a fair sprinkling of plasma, scouts (with a thunder hammer), some PFists and a vindicator. But against that IG player, I was sure missing my Annie.

[The emperors chosen]

Long fangs with lascannons,missile launchers,and a lascannon razorback

[thewolfpriest]

i preffer wolves scouts with melta, plasma y melta bombs, using the special rule "behind enemy lines"

[Vash113]

Lets see my Wolves have:

 

2 Assault Cannons

1 Cyclone Missile Launcher

4 Melta Guns

1 Plasma Gun

2 Lascannons

16 Power Fists

 

In higher points games my ranged ability to down tanks is a little lacking but with 16 Power Fists it doesn't matter where the enemies Vehicles go they'll run into a bunch of Wolves packing some Fists sooner or later and there are plenty of them in my army to swamp anything I run into. In one game the Fists accounted for no less than 6 Dreadnaughts against an opponent who was running a Dread heavy force under the 4th Edition Marine Codex and 3 of the Dreads were Venerable. Didn't save them though.

[fore_Russ_and_The_Wolftime]

IMO the pred annihilator is worth it

 

my heavy firepower comes from OBEL scouts, Predator Annihilator, Vindicator or my Long Fangs and Lascannon Razorback

 

i dont use all of them at once but sometimes i use a combination of a few but i always use atleast one and mainly the OBEL scouts

[LoneSniperSG]

The other consideration is that in CC you now hit the REAR armour of the enemy

 

Yes, this almost made me want to burn the 5th ed rulebook when I first saw it. It makes no sense until you think about it.

 

personally my last loadout had a Land Raider, my Predator Annihilator and fists, plasma pistols and a melta gun distributed throughout my troops.

 

The only problem was that it all became useless when I smoked the enemy Vindicator and suddenly had a bunch of daemon princes warp in right in front of me. I had been hoping for a Land Raider duel, but the pansy Black Templar player hid it from my lazars.

 

Lesson learned, there's always such a thing as too much AT. Too many big guns and you will flounder.

 

next tuesday I think I will run without the land raider and sub in a Predator Destructor with lascannon sponsons. The two predators should keep me sitting pretty in the tank department and free up more points for more troops.

[Roland Durendal]

All the above are excellent choices. For me my 4 standard AT options are the following (in my 2k lists):

 

Ven Dread with TLLC/ML

4-5 Wolf Scouts with Melta and Meltabombs (usually a PW or PP thrown in as well)

Ironclad with Melta/HF in a pod

LRC (for a large BC squad) with a MM

 

You'd be surprised at the AT ability of an LRC. With the new machine spirit rules you can drive that bad boy 12" and pop off your MM or AC, depending on the target. And the AC isn't too shabby at hurting Armor. I wrecked a regular LR with it once in a game. 4 hits, rolled 2 6's, of those 1 was rolled a 5 and I got my pen :rolleyes:

 

Otherwise depending on my list, I may add in a Vindi and Pred w/ LC sponsons. Tradeoff is if I add them in, I lose my 4th troops choice, so it comes down to flexibility.

 

As for my squads, Meltaguns in all of them, and a mix of PW/PF's.

[dietrich]

I've switched to meltaguns in squads and MM on attack bikes. Don't forget about a pred destructor or plasma cannon toting Ven Dread for lighter armor (AV 12 in particular). Melta weapons are the fifth edition anti-tank with the +1 on the damage roll, and if close enough, the extra d6 for armor pen. Also consider that people can usually manage to screen their big tanks with smaller stuff to grant a cover save vs static lascannons. It's a lot harder to provide a vehicle with a cover save vs mobile melta weapons.