Advice for Marines vs a few armies

[Muctar]

I'm pretty new to 40k gaming and so to get familiar I've joined an escalation league, starting at 500 points, going up 250 per month. We're playing a cityfight campaign, so everything that is not terrain is considered roadway, and all the tables early on are only 4' x 4'. Only problem is I'd like to get some advice before things get into full swing. We have 9 players in the league, so that's a lot of armies, but the ones I'm most concerned about right now are the ones who are nearby on the campaign map. As of now I'm bordered by Tau, Eldar, and Thousand Sons. Eventually I'll have to deal with Space Wolves, Marines, IG, and Orks (who like to be mounted in trukks and assault on the first turn =/ ).

 

Recently played my first 2 matches, both 500 points. Got absolutely rolled by the Thousand Sons (2 sorcerers and two 10 marine squads), who completely outshot my Tac squad (missile & flamer), Devastators w/ 4x Heavy Bolter, & chapter master (dumb idea). 4+ cover saves weren't enough to help me out there. The match against the Eldar (10 guardians w/ scatter laser, 5 warp spiders, 5 rangers, & winged autarch) went much better with 2 tacs (missile/flamer), devs (4xHB), resulting in a draw. Problem with that match was the warp spiders, since their movement and 3+ save was giving me some real trouble.

 

I play Salamanders, so I do try to lean towards the fluff if I can, though my bits don't allow me the variety of weapons in my squads yet. So far what I have painted and can be used is a captain/chapter master (AOBR model), another captain (power sword & plasma pistol, my Sicarius equivalent for use later on), 2 tactical squads both with flamers/meltas and missile launchers, a Dread with DCCW/heavy flamer & multi-melta, and a Devastator squad w/ 4x heavy bolter (5-man). The rest that I have yet to put together &/or paint are:

 

2 tactical squads

1 combat squad

1 assault squad

1 scout squad

1 rhino

1 five-man bike squad

1 dread

1 Termie squad (power fists & storm bolters)

 

Any advice on what I should add first/not add, or what I should eventually pick up would be great .

 

However what I'm really looking for any advice the B&C community can offer me about building my army, tactics against the armies I'll be facing, or any advice you may think would be useful for myself. I'm open to any suggestions at all. B&C hasn't failed me yet :P

[ToI]

I would suggest you put your list into the Army Lists sections as well, first off. You are gonna get a better response over there for build make up. However for things like the eldar and CSM and SM Plasma guns are good for you to use in the Tac Squad. If you have the possibility to change out the MM on the dread for something else you might want to do that, maybe an Autocannon or Assault Cannon for some extra shots with the Assault being my weapon of choice on dreads. Also can we assume that the stuff that isn't done yet are all maxed man squads? Sorry if my commentary seems a little disjointed atm, trying to work and type at the same time. Good luck to you in your battles

 

ToI

[minigun762]

So far what I have painted and can be used is a captain/chapter master (AOBR model), another captain (power sword & plasma pistol, my Sicarius equivalent for use later on), 2 tactical squads both with flamers/meltas and missile launchers, and a Dread with DCCW/heavy flamer & multi-melta. The rest that I have yet to put together &/or paint are:

 

2 tactical squads

1 combat squad

1 assault squad

1 scout squad

1 rhino

1 five-man bike squad

1 dread

1 Termie squad (power fists & storm bolters)

I can give you some guidance with the Thousand Sons as I play them as well.

Remember that 1k Sons die just as easily to normal Bolter fire as any other MEQ, unlike Plague Marines, the 4++ Inv save means nothing against sheer volume of shots. As far as shooting goes, they have an effective range of 24+D6" so they will probably be able to hit you unless you're camping WAY back. In general the best thing to do is pound them with long range weapons then assault them. Thousand Sons only have 1 attack and while the Sorcerer will help, if you hit them with enough normal attacks they'll fail.

A Dakka Predator, Dreadnought, Terminators, Razorbacks these are all good units to kill them with since their AP3 Bolters and 4++ save mean little.

 

For your army, I say the safest way to go is mostly mechanized using a combination of Rhinos and Razorbacks. Full 10 man squads in Rhinos and combat squads in Razorbacks with the heavy weapon half in cover providing fire support.

Get a Drop Pod for your Dreadnought as he's really geared for up close killing .

Put either an Assault Cannon or Cyclone on the Terminators. Assault Cannon is better if you're deepstriking in and the Cyclone is better if you're walking up the board.

I think the best use of Scouts is as Snipers. 10 Sniper Scouts with a Heavy Bolter is cheaper than a 10 man Tactical squad and can put our more damage at a longer range. Move them into cover (hopefully near an objective) and snipe things.

Assault squads can either be used as an anti-tank/anti-MC unit with a Power Fist Champion... I mean Sarge or take a Power Weapon Sarge and dual Flamers to turn them into a very nice horde control unit. Flamers generally need to be on something fast moving so I'd probably put my Flamers on the Assault Marines and Meltaguns into my Tactical Squads.

Remember the rule about armor and tanks. 1 of something is a target, 2 is safer, 3 is just about right ;)

The idea is if you only have 1 piece of armor on the table (a Dreadnought we'll say) then all the opponent's anti-tank guns will focus on that 1 target. If however you have a Dreadnought, a Rhino, a Razorback and a Predator it forces the opponent to spread out their anti-tank shots, making everything more survivable.

 

At the moment I'd leave the Terminators and Bikers at home. Focus on getting a good core of mounted Tacticals, Scouts and Dreadnoughts. At higher point games, a Predator is a good buy as is a Vindicator.

One of the cheapest and still the best SM HQ units is the jump pack Chaplain. Put him with the Assault Squad and you have a fast moving assault unit that the opponent can't ignore. Rerolls to hit when you charge can help take out a tank or MC in the first turn.

 

Ok I'll let you process that and come back with questions. Hope some of it helps.

 

Oh and remember that you're worshipping the False Emperor and the one true power is in Chaos! :D

[Muctar]

I would suggest you put your list into the Army Lists sections as well, first off. You are gonna get a better response over there for build make up. However for things like the eldar and CSM and SM Plasma guns are good for you to use in the Tac Squad. If you have the possibility to change out the MM on the dread for something else you might want to do that, maybe an Autocannon or Assault Cannon for some extra shots with the Assault being my weapon of choice on dreads. Also can we assume that the stuff that isn't done yet are all maxed man squads? Sorry if my commentary seems a little disjointed atm, trying to work and type at the same time. Good luck to you in your battles

 

Yeah, I just bought some magnets and plan on magnetizing my special weapons so I can swap out flamer/melta/plasma as need be. As for the Dread MM I do have an assault cannon that I can magnetize & paint. I also have a left-handed missile launcher for it; since it replaces the DCCW when would that be useful?

 

My assault squad is only 5 man, but I'm seriously considering making it maxed. The other things that are not maxed are the scouts (5), bikes (5), and terminators (5). Should I be maxing all of them when I use them?

 

 

I can give you some guidance with the Thousand Sons as I play them as well.

Remember that 1k Sons die just as easily to normal Bolter fire as any other MEQ, unlike Plague Marines, the 4++ Inv save means nothing against sheer volume of shots. As far as shooting goes, they have an effective range of 24+D6" so they will probably be able to hit you unless you're camping WAY back. In general the best thing to do is pound them with long range weapons then assault them. Thousand Sons only have 1 attack and while the Sorcerer will help, if you hit them with enough normal attacks they'll fail.

A Dakka Predator, Dreadnought, Terminators, Razorbacks these are all good units to kill them with since their AP3 Bolters and 4++ save mean little.

 

For your army, I say the safest way to go is mostly mechanized using a combination of Rhinos and Razorbacks. Full 10 man squads in Rhinos and combat squads in Razorbacks with the heavy weapon half in cover providing fire support.

Get a Drop Pod for your Dreadnought as he's really geared for up close killing .

Put either an Assault Cannon or Cyclone on the Terminators. Assault Cannon is better if you're deepstriking in and the Cyclone is better if you're walking up the board.

I think the best use of Scouts is as Snipers. 10 Sniper Scouts with a Heavy Bolter is cheaper than a 10 man Tactical squad and can put our more damage at a longer range. Move them into cover (hopefully near an objective) and snipe things.

Assault squads can either be used as an anti-tank/anti-MC unit with a Power Fist Champion... I mean Sarge or take a Power Weapon Sarge and dual Flamers to turn them into a very nice horde control unit. Flamers generally need to be on something fast moving so I'd probably put my Flamers on the Assault Marines and Meltaguns into my Tactical Squads.

Remember the rule about armor and tanks. 1 of something is a target, 2 is safer, 3 is just about right

The idea is if you only have 1 piece of armor on the table (a Dreadnought we'll say) then all the opponent's anti-tank guns will focus on that 1 target. If however you have a Dreadnought, a Rhino, a Razorback and a Predator it forces the opponent to spread out their anti-tank shots, making everything more survivable.

 

At the moment I'd leave the Terminators and Bikers at home. Focus on getting a good core of mounted Tacticals, Scouts and Dreadnoughts. At higher point games, a Predator is a good buy as is a Vindicator.

One of the cheapest and still the best SM HQ units is the jump pack Chaplain. Put him with the Assault Squad and you have a fast moving assault unit that the opponent can't ignore. Rerolls to hit when you charge can help take out a tank or MC in the first turn.

 

Ok I'll let you process that and come back with questions. Hope some of it helps.

 

Everything duly noted. Especially the notes about flamers on assault squad, jump chaplain, and using my dreads & other armor together. Right now I'm putting together & painting my assault squad and my rhino, completing a piece of the "more assault & armor" theory.

 

What do you think about adding a Whilwind? Ordinance blasts every turn, with the option to ignore cover. Might be handy against horde armies...

 

Thanks a whole bunch :) Any advice anyone can give is fantastic.

 

Oh and remember that you're worshipping the False Emperor and the one true power is in Chaos!

Right... I'll get right on that... :(

[minigun762]

What do you think about adding a Whilwind? Ordinance blasts every turn, with the option to ignore cover. Might be handy against horde armies...

 

Whirlwinds are almost always good buys. 85 points for a pie plate, thats hard to beat. It eats up infantry outside of cover and denies most saves for those who like to hide in cover as well. Remember it does scatter more if it doesn't have LOS but against horde armies you will probably hit something even with a moderate scatter.

[Resv]

I realize that nothing in your army can really take Hellfire Rounds, except for scout and shells, but I thought I should mention it. Hellfire Rounds are a great way to dole out damage to just about every army in the game. Just something to consider should you decided a basic Stern Guard squad might have a place in your army.

[Muctar]

Whirlwinds are almost always good buys. 85 points for a pie plate, thats hard to beat. It eats up infantry outside of cover and denies most saves for those who like to hide in cover as well. Remember it does scatter more if it doesn't have LOS but against horde armies you will probably hit something even with a moderate scatter.

Sounds like a good idea to me! That's actually quite cheaper than I thought.

 

I realize that nothing in your army can really take Hellfire Rounds, except for scout and shells, but I thought I should mention it. Hellfire Rounds are a great way to dole out damage to just about every army in the game. Just something to consider should you decided a basic Stern Guard squad might have a place in your army.

Actually I have a spare combat squad that I need to put together. I was considering converting them into sternguard with combi weapons so that I have access to that special ammo with the option of a melta/flamer/plasma shot.