Lord Kjeran Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Chello! I am getting back into 40K and the last I played, it was Rogue Trader. So, there have been some changes to say the least. Back in the day, you made your chapter and worried not so much about how it fit into the fluff; you came up with a name and a color scheme. That said, my chapter's color were black with red trim and the shoulder design was a stylized cross inside of the angel wings (red on black). Looking at some of the bitz out there, I've decided to use the Templar shoulder guards, red cross and white skull on black. Maybe some of teh vehicle bitz, etc. The robes...maybe on NCOs, officers, vets, terminator honors (1st company). Anyway, the question is, how bad is it to say my chapter is a second founding chapter made from Black Templars/Blood Angels? Is that even possible in the fluff? Or should I just stick with a Templar background? Any comments appreciated; I'm not really tied to either idea or chapter, so suggestions appreciated. btw, what happened to the "military police" marines? lol Thanks, Tony Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logain the Ranger Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Black Templars themselves are Second Founding so that rules them out. Also I'm pretty sure GW has locked up all of the Second Founding chapters so it would be more believable to go Third Founding Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1908537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Chello again! Ah, ok, they helps. See what i mean about knowing about the fluff? OK first change then...they're third founding. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1908545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I would advise having a flick through the Guide to DIYing. I can thorougly recommend it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1908610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Zean Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 OK first change then...they're third founding. :devil: black templars have no decendants after them thats why their chapter is close to 15000 marines they havent been together as a chapter very often usually only to vote for a new highmarshal and they havent been giving any geneseed to the mechanicus. what you can do is make your chapter a certain crusade or company as black templars Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1909131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The best thing you could do, if you wanted help for them to fit into the background of current 40k canon is to tell us what the chapter is about, who they are. What is their chapter cult? What are the marines general personality? What is their combat doctrine? What is their history? This is why so many people here are creating Index Astartes articles for their chapters (myself included), because at the end of such a sometimes arduous task is a finished product that looks very proffessional and gives your chapter a legitimate feeling, as well as feeling rather accomplished yourself. ;) Perhaps you can take inspiration from your old chapter? What did they represent as warriors to you? Or did they just represent lumps of plastic? :cuss I geuss what I'm asking is how you imagined them to be in the context of the 40k universe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1909167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 black templars have no decendants after them thats why their chapter is close to 15000 marines they havent been together as a chapter very often usually only to vote for a new highmarshal and they havent been giving any geneseed to the mechanicus. Do you have any sources for that, Zean? Sure, there are no known descendants but there is no mention of them specifically having no successors, unlike say the Space Wolves. Your old chapter kind of sounds like the B&C's mascot chapter (in terms of colour scheme and symbol), the Legio. The most important thing in designing a good DIY chapter is to have an underlying theme to the chapter. Like my Astral Corsairs, who believe that strength is the most important thing. Like Commissar Molotov's Castigators who believe in absolute purity. Once you've established what theme you want your chapter to have, then you can start constructing the article around it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1909289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwenCrute Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Another thing you can do is find something awesome and base your chapter around it. For example, the Scarlet Wyrms are Brother Captain Efe and myself's attempt at Space-Marinating ( Yes, marinating. Like with a marinade, only the marinade is a power-armoured fist.) the legends of King Arthur. If you want to have killbots (sorry, Marines) from the same genetic stock as the Templars, go for Imperial Fist geneseed. If you want noble Marines with a dark past and a tendency to fly into a rage and eat people, go for Blood Angels. If you want to skip straight to the eating people, Space Wolves!* *Technially, all the chapters eat people for tactical information, but it sounds funny. Just pretend I said ":cusspwninate in CC". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1909306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Chello! OK, after doing some more research, I've decided not to get too hung up on the concept of the geneseed. More than likely, it's either Ultramarine (the most used apparently) or Iron Fists. That said, Dark Angels are also a possibility. According to the wiki entry, it's possible to be a successor to them as well. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_An...cessor_Chapters I also worked up my color schema using the Dark Angels emblem as its closest in appearance to my old 1988ish color scheme. That said, I'm still planning on using Templar shoulder pads painted like the Crux Terminatus on the Terminator pic below. First, a Captain: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3561/3347177181_41f87f19cd_m.jpg Second, a standard brother: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3418/3347177243_64ec2dc008_m.jpg Third, a brother sergeant: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3429/3348014484_ec4d0e8ae5_m.jpg And last, a brother terminator: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3572/3348014538_3b536fd334_m.jpg The robes of the vet-sgt are probably also standard for the captains; or it may just be part of the "terminator honors" that sgts will wear. (Part of the codex for my chapter is that all squad leaders have to serve a tour in first company, then rotate back to their "home" company.) I haven't decided yet. Also, since there are 20+ foundings, no problem there. The timelines are a little unclear. How far back would 500-750 years put me in terms of foundings? Would that be relltively experienced but not ancient? Thanks for the help, Tony Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1914421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Chello! And now to answer some of Grey Hunters questions. Originally, in Rogue Trader, the Imperial Cult and Church was not as prevalent and "mainstream' as it now is in the fluff. At the time, I envisioned Blood Cross as a crusading chapter that worshiped Emperor as God in Human Form. The Emperor in his stasis throne on Terra is the Messiah on the cross; he is the "suffering servant." Since the Emperor has given (is giving?) his all for Mankind, so should Humanity give their all for him. That's still how I envision them. There's an interesting discussion elsewhere about how Marines view the Imperial Cult. A Blood Cross would come down on the side of Emperor worship easily. (Unlike the Iron Fists, for example.) I've always had a special place in my heart as Crusaders against the Orcs. The Blood Cross sees them as the Xeno primary threat to the Imperium: a fast-breeding race that quick manufactures war machines and spreads like wildfire across the galaxy if they are not stopped, a race that threatens Imperial stability. Let the Inquisition and the battle sisters deal with the mutants and the heretics; as long as Men are strong and hale, they will not fall to the corruption. As to the traitors (Chaos Marines), the Blood Cross don't go to extremes to search them out; they are hiding in the Eye biding their time. The Eldar are weak, the Tau a joke. The Nids are dangerous, but no more so than any other problem. The Blood Cross will fight any battle gladly; their hatred is reserved for the greenskins. The Blood Cross are mystics, definitely. Librarians and chaplains wield great influences, techmarines slightly less. Servitors are not used in combat; it is an abomination. Hardwired into a ship, fine; but on the ground, only a thinking, reasoning, free-willled individual can enter into the embrace of the Blood Cross, sacrificing himself to pain in the emperor's name. Does this help any, guys? Thanks again, Tony Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1914464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminatorinhell Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I love the scheme, you managed to make the red/black/gold work out pretty well. (my marines are red, silver and black) GO Red/Black marines! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-1914486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 Chello! OK, some more scattered thoughts before I forget them. Here, they won't disappear on a sheet of paper! Geneseed: Rogal Dorn Founding: Leaning toward either 14th Founding (~4th Black Crusade) or 22nd (after the 21st cursed & ~beg. of Age of Apostasy. The Reasoning is that I want to use a lot of Templar imagery/motifs. They also are descended from Dorn's line. Combined with Dorn's embrace of teh pain glove, well, it sounds eerie like the idea I have of the Embrace of the Blood Cross. The Crimson Fists are also descended from Dorn (2nd Founding like the Templars) and are described in the Lexicanum as "the most traditional among the sons of Rogal Dorn, and receive training of all aspects of combat as written by Roboute Guilleman." I like the idea of tactical brilliance combined with crusading zeal. Red from the Crimson Fists, Black from the Templars, the Blood Cross as a variation of the pain glove...I think I am finally on to making a real IA!! Comments are welcome; just remember that it's all sort of disjointed still. Oh, and yes, they are not a Templar successor...leaning toward CF as this point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-2509796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 After three years (!) back to working on this again. And, admittedly, the Templars are still a question mark, but they're less successors than an influence; the primary being the Crimson Fists. From todays blog post: http://isungr.blogspot.com/2013/06/warhammer-40k-wednesday-blood-cross.html EDIT: The wonderful pictures were created using Bolter and Chainsword's Space Marine Painter: www.bolterandchainsword.com/smp.php Our thanks to them for developing it. Well, I am not yet ready to reveal the damned hamlet of Totentanz in the Desolation of Drakenmoor, so I will chat briefly about my DIY Space Marine chapter, the Blood Cross. The Blood Cross was founded in the 37th Millenia just after the time of troubles dubbed "the Reign of Blood" by historians. Designed as a standing force to bolster the remote but tactically important Massilia Sector that was bordered by a small orcish "empire," the chapter established its Fortress-Monastery of Masada on the medieval desert world of Salusa Secundus. (Side note: The Order of the Blood Lily, one of the many Adepta Sororitas orders founded in the aftermath of the Reign of Blood, was granted a convent, Stella Maris, in the planet's southern hemisphere. While they remain separate, the chapter and order assist each other in recruitment efforts and maintain a cordial, if reserved, relationship.) A Sister of the Order of the Blood Lily. The population of Salusa Secundus is divided between nomadic tribes of herdsmen and city-dwellers who live in urban centers carved from the basaltic rock of the hillocks and ridges that jut forth from the caramel-colored sands of the desert. There are some shallow seas on the surface of the planet, but they account for less than 8% of the planet's surface. The polar ice caps are also smaller than the norm for most habitable planets. Most of the world's oxygen is produced from various volcanic activities and the presence of a photosynthetic sand-plankton on the world's surface. Recruits are drawn from both the nomads and the city dwellers. The nomads provide a ferocious fighting spirit and the city-dwellers provider a certain academic mindset to the order's recruitment base. Both peoples revere the Emperor of Mankind as "the Father who came from the Sun to bring Light to all Mankind." In general, the Blood Cross remains a loose hold on the people of Salusa Secundus allowing the populace to handle their own affairs as long as no alien or heretical taint takes root. About a millenia past, however, a chaos cult was able to subvert a group of tribesmen who managed to take a fortress city near the equator. The taint of Chaos was destroyed by a joint operation between the Chapter and the Order, and Jacururtu is a name still used to frighten young children on Salusa Secundus. A Brother of the Blood Cross armed for battle. The Blood Cross geneseed is that of Rogal Dorn. What is interesting is that the geneseed was received from two different chapters. Thus, the Blood Cross is successor to two bloodlines from the same root. When the High Lords of Terra called for a new chapter to form, two space marines stepped forward to answer the call for a cadre. The two had served together in the Deathwatch. One was Sulla Corrino, a brother of the Crimson Fists, who went on to become the still-revered first Chapter Master. The other was a Black Templar/Deathwatch Chaplain by the name of Kjeran who is still present in the chapter as a Dreadnought. The two chapters followed the lead of their two sons by assisting the fledgling chapter with a training cadre and equipment drawn from both. The two different chapter beliefs and tradition would meld and create a synergy of the two that serves to differentiate the Blood Cross from both progenitors but also make them slightly familiar. The heraldic colors of gules and sable obviously derive from the two. Vehicles, dreadnoughts, and veteran armor retains much in the way of Templar iconography yet still maintains the utilitarian nature of the Crimson Fists. The two fighting traditions merged to create a force that relies on both the bolter and the sword; interestingly, the chapter adheres to the Codex Astartes in most matters having only a few idiosyncrasies. For example, the 1st Company is comprised of the Veterans who use the mighty Terminator armor. However, all tactical sergeants must have served previously in 1st Company. Thus, all squad leaders are highly experienced and are occasionally seen wearing Terminator armor in the field (note: yes, this changes from edition to edition; some editions permit it, others don't). Brother veterans officially have a scarlet tabard, but generally eschew its use in the field, the helmet's red stripe of rank and red cross on the right pauldron (denoting Terminator honors) being sufficient symbols of status. Brother captains and higher ranks are differentiated by the use of gold helmets and gold imperial eagles on their torso armor. Note also that the Chapter retains the Mark VI Corvus helmet in all models of armor. Among 1st company veterans, there are actually full suits of the Corvus design still in use. As far as beliefs, like the Crimson Fists, the Blood Cross despises aliens in general and orcs in particular. They have taken this belief to such an extreme that causal use of cybernetics is almost seen as heresy. Replacement due to injury is acceptable, but not otherwise. In fact, the Blood Cross fields no servitors because that is seen as one of the severest of abominations. The Blood Cross reveres the Emperor as the Suffering Servant of Mankind. He ascended his throne willingly and still shields Mankind from Chaos through millenia of agonizing suffering. One Blood Cross ritual is that of the Embrace of the Cross. The Battle Brother is tied into a pain slab and hoisted up to suffer in agony for up to three days, proving his resilience and willingness to suffer for the survival of Mankind. And that, gentle readers, is a brief summary of my chapter. Enjoy! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3392800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticarErictheblue Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Um....black templar librarian?!? Oh Sh**! You uh...glances around nervously...do know that the BT have NO pysker/heretic/scum? Change it to a crimson dost librarian. And a templar Marshall. Apart fro that its brilliant! Well done Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3392807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Oh, bloody hell! That's what I get from not knowing enough about the Templars! Apart from their look and that they and teh fist are Dorn desecendents and both were fleet-based. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3392830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 There, I changed Kjeran to a chaplain since there are Deathwatch chaplains per DW: Rites of Battle (p.106). Although it seems that usually they are battle brothers serving that fall under teh mentorship of a DW Chaplain; that would be Kjeran's path, I take it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3392839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticarErictheblue Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Now this fixed its a very good IA, nice work. Can't wait too see you upload images of painted marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3392843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Horrible painter, but I will. I actually still have some old Rogue Trader plastics...the Corvus suits mentioned above. My goals is to actually have the full 1000 marine chapter in mini form. And again, this just a summary. another goal is to it up like a full Codex. with pics of the minis. :) Ambition, thy name is me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3392855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 If you've got some untouched models you intend to paint, you should vow for the ETL (see thread in Liber for details). There's only three days left to vow and if you're going to be painting them anyways, you might as well join in the competition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3392957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 I just might do that. Looking around, the 6e Space Marine Codex is not out yet? I can get my points from 5e? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3393418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Yes, I'm sure that's so. I'd ask all such questions there, though. People with all knowledge will be more likely to answer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3393421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 It's good to see you came back to this after three years, and will be joining us for the ETL no less! This is good indeed. I noticed what appears to be an oversight, when you mention the fortress that was cut routed and destroyed, you don't mention it's name except for that "city name" is still used to scare children. In you're older edition you mentioned the veteran sgts having to serve in the first company before becoming sgts. I liked this, reminds me of my guys, and I hope you bring it back. I can't say I particularly agree upon the chapters method of creation, as I don't really think that it would work like that, but sure, ok. Good work, keep it up Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3394283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 Thanks for the comments, War Angel! Yes, the First Company requirement will remain. :) As to the creation, I get the impression that the High Lords are the ones who call for the creation. Usually, I'm assuming chapter will be told that "send cadre and geneseed." Since the Blood Cross was created to stand as a bulwark against a small Orcish Empire I can see a DW veteran catching wind and volunteering to lead the cadre. I also need to amend to say that the BT only sent cadre but no geneseed. I'm given to understand they're stingy with theirs. :) Of coure, it probably all comes from Mars anyway.... Now to work on that vow.... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3394355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kjeran Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 Oh, and changing the name of the Fortress monastery to Megiddo--Masada might be disrespectful to real-world people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162401-my-diy-chapter-the-blood-cross-chapter-wip/#findComment-3394365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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