LoneSniperSG Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Around the middle of last year I posted the following quoted post on the Inquisition board for some Ecclisiarchy and Inquisition comments on this story, as it is the story of the origins of a Canoness. Be warned, this might give you all a jolt. So I have two special characters for use with my Space Wolves and Sisters of Battle, and one with my Imperial Guard. Hopefully it will make sense once I've explained everything. And trust me, this thread most likely belongs here. If not, please move it to Space Wolves forum. This is just a short story I've written so far. I might make it longer and release it into the community. (( Note: I am not taking a side in the female Astares thing here.)) The tale of the Axe Sisters. There is a legend passed around the halls of the Fang, the eternal fortress of the Space Wolves. It is whispered not in back rooms and dark halls, but in the chambers of Logan Grimnar himself. The legend holds that long ago, the Wolf Priest Eyaar the Quiet happened upon a battle between two native clans of Fenris. Eyaar set himself back and observed as is recruitment tradition, but to his outright amazement, the clans completely destroyed eachother. The last two men he could see clove eachother in twain at the same moment, bringing about a most bizarre draw. Unbelieving, Eyaar made his way into the village to seek out any surviving warriors. Unbent by the obvious slaughter that had occured, the grizzled priest happened upon a most gruesome sight. A pile of bodies rose up in front of an islander hut, all bleeding and broken. The curious priest dug his way through the bodies, and barely dodged an axe swing to his head. He raised his mighty crozius up high, the weapon's baleful energy lighting the room. He beheld two young women, each perhaps 15 and each holding a bloodied war axe. The women fell to their knees at the sight of the great Wolf Priest, both showing signs of weariness. Eyaar stared at the girls for a moment, then spoke, pointing to the corpses outside the door. "You two, did you cause that?" Both women nervously looked up at the great Space Wolf and nodded. It was forbidden in most clans for women to fight, and theirs had been no exception. The priest idly rapped his Crozius on his palm. "This is a strange circumstance, I tell you. Never before has this happened to a Wolf Priest." Eyaar turned to the door and stared out at the bloody sea. "Yet, you two are the only survivors, and it was not by chance. You have shown me your courange and strength of will. Fighters ye may be, so you will come with me and we will decide what happens to you." Eyaar cast a sidelong glance at the girls as he heard a Thunderhawk approach. "So. Come along then." ------------------------------- "This is most unheard of, brother Priest." Declared Logan Grimnar. "You say these girls felled fifty men?" "Aye lord, they did. Counted the bodies myself." Eyaar swept his arm out to the two females. "They are the only survivors. They showed strength of will and strength of heart. By the grace of Russ and the Allfather, they are fighters." "Brothers we are, Eyaar. There can be no sister Astartes." Grimnar stood and moved to the girls. "So.. warrior women you are. Declare your names." "Birna and Lilith" The girls spoke. Grimnar stroked his beard, thinking the matter over. "My lord, if I may suggest something?" Spoke the Wolf Priest Gautr Firemaw "I believe we should deliver them to the Sisters. They have shown us the strength of warriors, and what better fitting way to handle them? They would fit right in with the Sororitas." Logan nodded at this. "So it shall be. We will alert Canoness Malora to this." -------------------------- Here is how far I am for now. I haven't come up with a way to separate them just yet. One goes on to become a Canoness of the Order of the Icy Rose, and the other goes on to become a renowned tank commander in the 51st Cadian Imperial Guard regiment. I'm thinking that Lilith will run away from convent, seeking a different life of service, but If you want to pitch an idea, let 'er rip, though I'm mostly looking for opinions on the events here. The time has come again for me to start writing, and I want your input. Is Fenris a viable homeworld for a Canoness and a humble tanker? Can the Space Wolves quietly claim responisbility for bringing two aspiring heroines to the light of destiny? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrolleif Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I think it would be interesting to see how it plays out. Maybe not necessarily 100% canon but nonetheless intriguing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1909195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Fenris couldnt remain their recruiting world, they wouldnt be sister of battle under the ecllesiarchy if they did... the twos relationship is far to strained. However if the Space Wolves were to drop of a few "orphans" at a soritas convent I have little doubt theyd be tought like any others. If they are in the same sector as fenris they might have closer ties to the wolves than the church and deviate a bit from normal soritas doctrine. Really Tyrak is the one we need here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1909216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, I went with common sense. You find two girls who obviously know how to kill, what do you do with them if you can't recruit them for yourself? Do the next best thing and give them to someone who can. At the moment, I am thinking of replacing Logan Grimnar with my own Wolf Lord, Fullugi Ironfang, as he has a battle-forged offhand relationship with Canoness Malora. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1909299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, I went with common sense. You find two girls who obviously know how to kill, what do you do with them if you can't recruit them for yourself? Do the next best thing and give them to someone who can. At the moment, I am thinking of replacing Logan Grimnar with my own Wolf Lord, Fullugi Ironfang, as he has a battle-forged offhand relationship with Canoness Malora. Turn them into Serfs... bondsman ya know, the next generations have to come from somewhere and Bondsman are both male and female as depicted in the SW books. Put them in charge of a company of Bondsman on a Great Ship of the fleet or something, give them a chance to kick butt in the name of Russ against any boarders that are foolish enough to take the ship. The Sisters mostly deal with orphaned Imperials from the Schola Progenium and the like, I don't think there's a precedent for them accepting already mostly grown candidates especially ones from feral Fenris... :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1909933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Strange that you've decided that the 'clans' forbid women to fight. Female warriors were not unusual in NW European/Scandic tribes so why would it be any different on Fenris? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1911324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Sources please.... shieldmaidens were rare enough in the sagas and eddas.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1911332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGC Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 That is a really promising start, but alas, there are so many things fluff-wise that could get in the way of this story going much further without breaking something that is already in place Is there any way they could be written into being in the service of an Iron Priest. Sort of free thralls. Or maybe attatched to the House Bellaruse(??) - the navigator thing that Ragnar ended up helping at some point. Could they be 'gifted' to them in some way like body gaurds that would always have some kind of wolfen side to them. Sort of having some serious re-education, maybe even mind wiped but always maintaining an untrainable side that is in their fenrisian blood. Could make for some interesting storylines?? Hope to see more soon Catcha - DGC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1911793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I like the concept, but somehow I can't see it happening - dropping two barbaric girls off with the Soritas, who can't speak a word of Gothic? That said, if they were put through the same hypno-training process aspirants go through, then offered the opportunity to serve Russ and the Emperor... I can see that one working. Just perhaps not with the sisters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1911821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Sources please.... shieldmaidens were rare enough in the sagas and eddas.... The point is, where are the sources that show that women did not participate. Taking the starting point that they did not is to blindly apply a Christian sexual ethic on pagan societal organisation. Now, GW sources on Fenris do not mention the existence nor non existence of female warriors - so the assumption is. You've already admitted that, although rare, they existed so I guess there's no point is asking for sources that deny the existence of female warriors in North West Europe during the first millenium nor on Fenris. When considering another society, I have learnt to try to start with an open mind rather than exclude options because they don't fit the British Whig historic model. I could be wrong but it's served me well enough so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1911949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Oh no, Im not trying to deny their existance, but from the tales when it did happen they certainly stood out. It was a rarity. Many regions did have a prohibition on women fighting in battle, and some treated their womenfolk rather poorly. Others let their women fight, or own property etc etc. So when I read the story above I figured it was the clans in that region were dead set against it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Sorry, brother, I misunderstood you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Its all good, you brought up a good point. That kind of thing needs to be watched for when writing, and editing, fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirnir Ragefang Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Sounds fine to me. ^_^ yet the wolves might take such women as bonds(wo)men. (more ideas for my SW bondsman force, thank you) I've got a little story connecting my Battle Sisters Army with my Wolves, but it's in german. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Proof. Not a lot of societies allowed women to hold prominent roles however the above is just one example of women holding prominent roles including prominent military roles in history particularly where anglican/northwestern european tribes are concerned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 As previously stated vash... I wasnt contesting that it happened, it was that his phrasing made it sound common, wich generally it wasnt. Also note that shes celtic, not scandinavian. Still, we can all agree that warrior women are not a myth Im sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I know I just felt like pointing it out, besides Celtic or Scandanavian doesn't much matter, the Space Wolves were likely based on all such cultures to one extent or another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combat_Vet Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Women have been important to warrior societies all the way back into the pre-history. Granted they are not all warrior's themselves. Proof? Amazons - steppe society of females, bowman (bowwomen?), cavalry, and fought against the legendary greeks Spartans - only spartan women give birth to real men, only granted tombstones if they died in childbirth China - Sun Tzu (greatest military commander) made his place in ancient society by creating a female fighting force for the emperor Northern Europe - the Valkeries were not shield maidens, they were the choosers of the slain. They led the warrior's to Walhall. Many other examples exist. Just look into our history and legends. I am not trying to argue for or against your concepts Sniper. I actually enjoyed the piece. We only see glimpses of the structure of the Imperium. Many things could happen that we do not know about. That's the beauty of our hobby. I see the "good" Dark Angels as the fallen, the Night Lords were betrayed by the Emperor, and Russ will return, osmotic gill and all :( . But, that just how I see the Imperium, everyone else may see it differently. Your story could just as easily be brought into the fluff by the girls being given to one of the many Inquisitors with whom we as Wolves hold honor bonds. These same Inquisitors could easily pull the strings to get the girls into the Schola or any convent of the Sororitas that you choose. Some would say that they would be made into chapter serfs or even added to our fleet. It's our hobby and we as players help create our galaxy. Sorry for the rant. Better days, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frost Wolf Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 This idea of yours is awesome. i think i might add a band of female wolfguard body guards in my army for one of my HQ. that would be just sweet. now to help you decide on what happens to the two warrior maidens you have, i have read that the SW recruit warriors from Fenris. its doesn't say they were all men. if you used the Codex Astartes fluff you could still keep the women in the SW because we deviate the farthest from the C: SM anyway and the other chapters dont like that but i love how we do our own thing. if it works, why not use it? if it isn't broke dont fix it. May The Great Wolf guide you as your pack stalks the stars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Strange that you've decided that the 'clans' forbid women to fight. Female warriors were not unusual in NW European/Scandic tribes so why would it be any different on Fenris? Actually, I believe you are wrong according to the last world history class I took. Besides which, it's nothing against females of course. It's just how I choose to represent their origins. Makes them just a bit more epic than "Oh, well you were trained and knew how to use an axe so yeah you would have felled all those guys for shiz." This idea of yours is awesome. i think i might add a band of female wolfguard body guards in my army for one of my HQ. that would be just sweet. now to help you decide on what happens to the two warrior maidens you have, i have read that the SW recruit warriors from Fenris. its doesn't say they were all men. if you used the Codex Astartes fluff you could still keep the women in the SW because we deviate the farthest from the C: SM anyway and the other chapters dont like that but i love how we do our own thing. if it works, why not use it? if it isn't broke dont fix it. May The Great Wolf guide you as your pack stalks the stars. Actually I'd rather not be on either side of the female marine stuff. If you want to, that's rockin' and I support your free creation, but I stay traditional to keep flamers away. Your story could just as easily be brought into the fluff by the girls being given to one of the many Inquisitors with whom we as Wolves hold honor bonds. These same Inquisitors could easily pull the strings to get the girls into the Schola or any convent of the Sororitas that you choose. Some would say that they would be made into chapter serfs or even added to our fleet. It's our hobby and we as players help create our galaxy. Sorry for the rant. Better days, The Ironfang company has an honor bond with the Ebon Chalice after fighting alongside them several times, including the Torax Crusade, which I am in the process of writing. The Axe Sisters is just another piece of the Torax pie. I should point out, though, that most Space Wolves tend to develop an irritating rash when the Inquisition shows up around them. Well, I went with common sense. You find two girls who obviously know how to kill, what do you do with them if you can't recruit them for yourself? Do the next best thing and give them to someone who can. At the moment, I am thinking of replacing Logan Grimnar with my own Wolf Lord, Fullugi Ironfang, as he has a battle-forged offhand relationship with Canoness Malora. Turn them into Serfs... bondsman ya know, the next generations have to come from somewhere and Bondsman are both male and female as depicted in the SW books. Put them in charge of a company of Bondsman on a Great Ship of the fleet or something, give them a chance to kick butt in the name of Russ against any boarders that are foolish enough to take the ship. I don't believe a wise old Wolf Priest would ever allow such a gross waste of Russ-blessed talent. If you were the Wolf Priest, what would you do? Let them stay as bondswomen with the chapter aboard a ship and they -might- see combat, or send them off to an order of psyk-phobic nuns with guns and be assured they will bring the light of the Emperor to the corners of the galaxy? I like the concept, but somehow I can't see it happening - dropping two barbaric girls off with the Soritas, who can't speak a word of Gothic? That said, if they were put through the same hypno-training process aspirants go through, then offered the opportunity to serve Russ and the Emperor... I can see that one working. Just perhaps not with the sisters. This is no offense to you, as I have said this before. Damn the fluff. Now is when I get to take the reigns. Besides, the best way to get a Space Wolf to do something is to tell him not to. :lol: Oh no, Im not trying to deny their existance, but from the tales when it did happen they certainly stood out. It was a rarity. Many regions did have a prohibition on women fighting in battle, and some treated their womenfolk rather poorly. Others let their women fight, or own property etc etc. So when I read the story above I figured it was the clans in that region were dead set against it. Strange that you've decided that the 'clans' forbid women to fight. Female warriors were not unusual in NW European/Scandic tribes so why would it be any different on Fenris? let's just assume it's this one single clan, since no specifics are known about the other clans when it comes to who is eligible to spill blood. I like the concept, but somehow I can't see it happening - dropping two barbaric girls off with the Soritas, who can't speak a word of Gothic? That said, if they were put through the same hypno-training process aspirants go through, then offered the opportunity to serve Russ and the Emperor... I can see that one working. Just perhaps not with the sisters. Even after an Astropathic message is sent, it still takes a ship a long time to warp around the Imperium from any one place, especially if you're farther away on duty. The Wolf Priest can probably teach them gothic in the time it takes for Ceria Malora's vessel to arrive at Fenris to receive the Axe Sisters. 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Vash113 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't believe a wise old Wolf Priest would ever allow such a gross waste of Russ-blessed talent. If YOU were the Wolf Priest, what would you do? What would I do? I'd have them trained as Serfs and watch them ascend the ranks at lightning speed and command the Bondsman warriors to victory in space and on the ground against all comers. Why just give such talented individuals away to get thrown into a holy meat grinder. The Sisters are not known for their tactical acumen or logical application of tactics and strategy, they're a blunt tool, zealous and highly effective of course. I'd rather have two such exceptional warriors leading the Space Wolf bondsman, serving Russ and the All-Father on and off the battlefield as warriors of the Space Wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't believe a wise old Wolf Priest would ever allow such a gross waste of Russ-blessed talent. If YOU were the Wolf Priest, what would you do? What would I do? I'd have them trained as Serfs and watch them ascend the ranks at lightning speed and command the Bondsman warriors to victory in space and on the ground against all comers. Why just give such talented individuals away to get thrown into a holy meat grinder. The Sisters are not known for their tactical acumen or logical application of tactics and strategy, they're a blunt tool, zealous and highly effective of course. I'd rather have two such exceptional warriors leading the Space Wolf bondsman, serving Russ and the All-Father on and off the battlefield as warriors of the Space Wolves. You're right of course, but it simply doesn't fit my vision, and it doesn't leave Lily ending up in a Guard regiment like she is now. In the galaxy of 40k, there's bound to be exceptions now and then. This is my take on one such exception. One priest only has to make one choice to decide the fate of others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 i would use either witch hunters or daemon hunters rules for them, the girls being inquisitors. the storm troopes can be bondsmen of the wolves, the girl can lead them into battle. inquisitors can be made pretty well for shooting or CC, but are still plainly human stat lines. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 The problem is IMO it's just not fluffy for the Space Wolves to just well... get rid of talented individuals, particularly not to other Imperial branches and I seriously doubt the Space Wolves have close relations with the Sisters, I would think the Sisters barely able to restrain themselves for launching a purge crusade against the Wolves. Remember the Sisers are the militant branch of the Ecclesiarchy and the Space Wolves do no worship the Emperor as a god, that fact alone would put them in the firm realm of "heretics" to the Sisters along with the majority of Astartes Chapters most likely, giving feral Fenresian tribeswomen over to the Adeptus Sororitas just doesn't seem practical or fluffy. But that's just me, it's your army so you can do what you want but I just don't see the Space Wolves letting go of talented fighters, I doubt any Wolf Priest would make such a decision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 while i am not crazy about it but i am saying use them as a "count as" army would work with the fluff as various armed factions do work with the Wolves... WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162449-need-the-opinions-of-wolves/#findComment-1912941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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