Only autocannon predators

[theredcorsair]

I was looking at C:SM and looked at the predator entry. I think 60 pts. is way too much for a vehicle that throws out only two high strength, high AP shots.

 

I did some mathhammer in my head, here it is. This is incremental as in if it auto wounds but has to hit it would be 66% on both

 

HIT 83%

WOUND AGAINST MEQ 50%

SAVE AGAINST MEQ 17%

 

That means it might get almost no kills in one game. Sure it has high armor, but no killing potential. All for 60 points. Just say no.

[glsn]

You're looking at it wrong. The Autocannon is not an anti-infantry weapon, let alone an anti-heavy infantry weapon. The Autocannon is meant to take out light vehicles. Try mathhammering it from that point of view.

[minigun762]

Agreed, the AutoCannons is geared for light vehicles and light infantry. It has some effectiveness against heavy infantry and MCs but thats only as a backup.

 

My thought with the 60/70 points Predator is "why not spend a tiny bit more and buy yourself the Heavy Bolter sponons?" You lose some mobility but gain alot more firepower.

A cheaper alternative if you really want mobile firepower is add on a Storm/TL Bolter. They're S4 so you can fire it and the main weapon.

 

For me, turret only Predators are a waste. Loyalists have Thunderfire and Whirlwinds and Chaos have Obliterators. If you want the Dakka Predator to shine, you have to give it its due dakka.

[Vaaish]

The auto cannon is the poor mans plasma. Use it against 4+ save infantry and most targets you would normally shoot missiles at or creatures with high toughness. It should be used as a support weapon though.

[GreatEscape_13]

Maybe if you've got a fluid tank line in mind (moving and firing) and want some light transport busting power. Or perhaps as a dedicated tank shock vehicle (since it has the higher armor but a very ignorable weapon).

 

Cheers.

[damnyankee]

Maybe if you've got a fluid tank line in mind (moving and firing) and want some light transport busting power. Or perhaps as a dedicated tank shock vehicle (since it has the higher armor but a very ignorable weapon).

 

Cheers.

I have a list (in my head, I haven't bought all the models for it yet) that uses two Autocanon only predators. 60 points for AV 13 is nice. I intend to use them to screen my transports.

 

 

Christopher

[theredcorsair]

They acually could be used for some screening.

[werewolf_nr]

Can also be thought of as a S7 2 shot weapon that isn't quite worth focusing fire on to destroy. It could potentially last the entire game w/out being shot at.

[theredcorsair]

An autocannon stands no chance against AV13. It's also hard to get AV11.

[Koremu]

Frankly the Autocannon is just dreadful. The Predator should have the same turret options as a Razorback IMO.

 

Against most things the Autocannon will be useful against, the Sponson-Mounted Heavy Bolter would be equal or better.

[Top Secret]

In terms of doing a dakka predator: Autocannon + Heavy Bolters..

 

Is the storm bolter worth getting?

[chapter master 454]

In terms of doing a dakka predator: Autocannon + Heavy Bolters..

 

Is the storm bolter worth getting?

 

for 10 points, a dakka pred isn't complete without it, thats 10 shots a turn with storm bolter.

[theredcorsair]

Frankly the Autocannon is just dreadful. The Predator should have the same turret options as a Razorback IMO.

 

Against most things the Autocannon will be useful against, the Sponson-Mounted Heavy Bolter would be equal or better.

 

Razorback preds, add some more sponson options and you're kickin

[ShinyRhino]

As a "main battle tank", the Predator fails. Luckily, it's not designed as one. It's the LAV of the Marine arsenal. Mid-caliber gun for throwing rounds at light troops and poorly armored vehicles. It's also a nice escort for your transports. Personally, I'd rather have a turreted light tank rolling along with my Rhinos than a Vindicator that can only fire in a forward arc.

I'm torn on the heavy bolter sponsons. I envision the Autocannon Predator as I listed above, a mobile support vehicle. If it's sitting still, it's not doing its job. And unless it's sitting still, it's not firing those heavy bolter sponsons. Therefore, I'd go without them.

I do like the idea of buying a stormbolter for it, though. Those two extra dice can't hurt. Always make your opponent bow to the dice gods (make him roll saves!).

 

Overall, I think you want to be selective with your targets, if more than one presents itself. Optimally, you want to hit transports, 4+ save infantry (though volume of fire IS a problem, no unit should be operating in a vacuum without support), and anything open-topped.

 

My two cents.

[white radish]

As a "main battle tank", the Predator fails. Luckily, it's not designed as one. It's the LAV of the Marine arsenal. Mid-caliber gun for throwing rounds at light troops and poorly armored vehicles. It's also a nice escort for your transports.

 

Not a bad way to think about it if people are using Razorbacks as gun platforms. Predators can't carry troops, but they aren't THAT much more expensive.

 

A basic Razorback is, well, you know. Pretty dang cheap for =I= pts.

The up-gunned Razorback is 75 points, AV 11/11/10.

 

A cheap Predator is =I= (or 70 if you take the Storm Bolter), and AV 13/11/10. Probably worth the 20 pts over the basic Razorback.

Up-gun the Predator to an Annihilator for tank busting, it's 105 or 115. If only the normal Predator could pack a TL AssCan for the rest of us...

 

Maybe that's the discussion there. Sure, if you have the points for it, nothing beats a Land Raider. And Vindis have their purpose as well.

 

If I want a tank hunter & I know Predators will die, why not a basic Annihilator? TL LC will land a shot on the move more often than the Destruction with Las sponsons. I don't know that a single Autocannon turret is worth that much unless you're hunting Land Speeders, but it's cheap and can screen for cheap & provide mobile heavy anti-infantry fire.

 

There are more ideal choices, but I can see situations where I'd throw down a fairly bare bones Predator.

[theredcorsair]

yes, this could turn into a conversation centering on Razorback <,>,= that Predator

[Koremu]

Mathematically, AV11 is the highest AV that the Autocannon challenges the TLAC on (due entirely to the two shots).

 

So the only things that the AC-only Pred works on is light vehicles, or the side and rear armour of heavier, non-Land Raider, vehicles.

 

On the other hand, for how cheap it is, and for the fact that you don't have to slow down for the sponson gunners, side and rear armour is accessable, and dismissing the tank as a threat could be an error... what's the rear armour of a Leman Russ MBT again?

[theredcorsair]

A leman russ is 10 on the back. A leman russ demolisher is 11

[Koremu]

Hmmm. You're probably not going to be able to meaningfully flank a tank on a 40k gameboard.

 

As a Light Cavalry Tank the Predator kinda fails. If it had the ability to fire the turret and move 12" it would be interesting.

 

How I wish the thing had a Machine Spirit.

[white radish]

There's plenty in the AV10/11 range... War Walkers, Kanz, Piranha, Land Speeders, Vypers, Sentinels, Rhinos, Razorbacks. Plus some AV10 on the side for the Chimera, which still looks too expensive IMO.

 

And, yeah, the Dakka Predator will deal with hordes better, but then you should have a Whirlwind, I think.

 

Sure, the cheap Destructor is hardly an ideal Leman Russ popper (ditto to Fire Prisms, Falcons, Hammerheads, Wave Serpents, Devilfish, etc)... but maybe if you're thinking about using a Razorback for shooting, and letting your Tacticals mostly walk, then maybe the cheap Destructor is worth it.

 

Anyway, I'll have to think about it a little more rather than start buying up Razorbacks for my armored infantry force...

[theredcorsair]

But the Predator w/laz is more costly than the razor

[theredcorsair]

Lets hear it!

Is a predator or a razorback better?

[Vaaish]

Depends entirely on your intended use.

[theredcorsair]

I honestly think a Stronos razorback is the best.