How to use Tigurius

[Dudley Nightshade]

A buddy and I played a 2000 point battle the other day, which left me with some room to go crazy with my HQ, so I took a librarian who counted as Tigurius.

 

I have no idea how to use that character! Here's what went down:

 

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Mission: Annihilation

I did not seize the initiative, so was stuck going second.

 

Turn 1. Tigurius and his small squad of Sternguard hop out of their Land Raider Crusader, since a winged daemon prince (with Mark of Slaanesh) was bearing down on them, and I didn't want them to be inside the raider when he tore it apart. It also allowed the Sternguard to kill a few noise marines in the shooting phase.

 

Turn 2. The daemon prince (a 155 point character) sees Tigurius and his squad as a juicier target than the raider and assaults them instead. He directs all his attacks towards Tigurius, causing only two wounds. Two wounds. And just like that, my hugely expensive character is gone before he can do, literally, anything.

 

Was I just unlucky? I know there are things I could have done differently, but wow. I expected him to stand up a little longer in close combat.

 

Beyond just commenting on this particular game, how do people use Tigurius, and more generally, librarians?

[Brother Swift]

all i know is when some people use tigurius rite he can be a very powerful librarian and take out a few pretty expensive units

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I suppose the reason hes so valuable is his hood of hellfire. You need to use that to your advantage, using him like a standard librarian means that well, you might as well take a standard librarian!

[gainesdp]

I don't think Tigurius is worth 230 points. He is versatile (i.e., he can use 3 powers per turn, knows all the psychic powers), but he is handicapped by being relatively fragile. One of those powers each turn should probably be Force Dome (unless you're in cover and out of range of any charge), leaving you with two to work with. I'm not saying he isn't useful, but I think a cheaper librarian tooled for a specific task would be a better option (if you really want a librarian). Alternatively, there are other HQ options that are probably more powerful.

 

However, if you want to use him, you probably need to be taking advantage of his 'Gift of Prescience" and re-rolling reserve rolls. So, maybe in a drop-pod heavy army or one using Khan's rules to Outflank, he could be powerful.

[waaanial00]

Which powers did you use?

 

If you had used Might of the Anchients and The Quickening. He would have been striking at I10 and S6 then you could have used his Force Weapon to banish the demon ah-la Instant Kill. Its all about using the sneaky 3 powers to your advantage. Oh and why did you not just shoot the Demon Prince up with Hellfire rounds?

 

Remember he has no Invulnerable save as standard so treat him with some due care and attention. Even casting the 5+ Invulnerable save would have helped a bit.

 

I would use him in my tournament list but he is just too expensive to justify.

 

Wan

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Well at 230 points, he isnt exactly cheap. Usually there are better units to use which dont cost as much and can do better IMO, so i dont think i would consider him over a regular librarian, unless i had lots and lots of points to spare.....

[Dudley Nightshade]

If you had used Might of the Anchients and The Quickening. He would have been striking at I10 and S6 then you could have used his Force Weapon to banish the demon ah-la Instant Kill. Its all about using the sneaky 3 powers to your advantage. Oh and why did you not just shoot the Demon Prince up with Hellfire rounds?

 

Unfortunately, both of those Might of the Ancients and Quickening are limited to the Librarian's assault phase.

 

Since this was my first use of both a librarian and Sternguard, I simply forgot a couple of options :huh: You're exactly right - casting Force Dome the turn before surely could have helped. Also, I was looking at the ammo options for Sternguard on page 63 and forgot that they also have Hellfire, since the ammo profile is elsewhere in the codex. I figured the DP would charge my raider and I would be able to assault on my turn, so I didn't do much to prepare for receiving the charge. Obviously a tactical error with rather grave (for Tigurius :woot:) consequences.

 

Appreciate the help, though!

[Combo]

isnt one of his biggest strengths his ability too make reserves alot more reliable? he can in theory save alot more than his point cost just by making your army come in when you want it, well increasing the chances anyway.

[Dudley Nightshade]

Yeah, that makes sense. Since I had only one deep striking unit (and I rolled a 5 to bring them in on turn two anyway), one of his main abilities was pretty much wasted.

[Captain Idaho]

Sternguard should not be in a Landraider, as the reason you have one is for that assault ramp+assault unit+AV14 protection. Sternguard is Rhinos and Drop Pods is the way forward.

 

Now, I'm not expert, but Tigurius is a little expensive for my liking. However, there are those in the Ultras forum who swear by him. They suggested using him with Sternguard in a drop pod, unleash firepower hell on the turn they arrive and then he can teleport them around the table adding his firepower to theirs (avenger is a nasty trick when you first come out of the drop pod too)

 

He is useful in an assault when he charges if you use his quickening + Might of heros + force weapon, but this is risky and not really his purpose.

 

As an aside, there is no reason to fear a Daemon Prince when in a mobile Landraider. If you think he will charge it, make sure you moved more than 6" and he will only hit on a 6+, which even with warp time is going to be hard to achieve with more than 1 or 2 hits.. AV14 will make it hard for a strenght 6 creature, even with 2D6 armour penetration (average of 7 + 6 = 13!) to damage your tank with 1 attack.

[Frosty the Pyro]

indeed, most (marine) special characters are overcosted in terms of what they can fight against because they come with army wide special rules, thus making them inifecient if you dont take advantage of said special rules. Also makes them increasingly effecient as the game becomes large as there is more army for the rules to affect.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

But then does tigurius equate to his cost? After all he might be able to fill in for multiple rolls, I suppose it depends on the play style of the army, but i agree in the sense that tigurius probably makes up for his higher points cost in larger point games.

[Dudley Nightshade]

All good advice. I would have to say that given my one experience, Tigurius is a little expensive for my liking too!

 

Just a couple of comments so you don't think I'm a total twit :)

 

My Sternguard unit is only five models strong, so I was fully prepared to run them in a Razorback, except in this particular list (thrown together hastily), I needed those points to make room for a Vindicator. My choices then were to run either of my two tactical squads in the crusader, put the Sternguard in there, or run it completely empty. The crusader was a whim, and if I were doing it again, I would either give more thought about what would ride in it, or drop it entirely.

 

In theory, you're right about the daemon prince, but I have seen it chew through so many of my high-armour vehicles over the past couple years that I guess I panicked. Maybe if I convince myself that it's not such a threat, the dice will start believing it too. You`re exactly right of course...an average hit would glance AV 13.

[chaplain_quint]

on the reserves reroll: in the codex entry it states that tigurius may choose to reroll all reserve rolls... so even the rolls for your enemy.. bad new for demon armies

[Frosty the Pyro]

to reroll something you have to have rolled it first, and I dont let my enemies roll my reserve rolls, so while you might be able to pull that off against some, I think most people will tell you no to rerolling enemy reserves.

[Mr Peon]

im not so certain about being able to reroll your enemies reserves rolls. It does not specifically say both players, and it does say you may reroll them, so in taking your theory you would wait until your enemy passes its reserve roll and they laugh like a manic, pick up the dice and say that you are going to reroll them...... I dont see many people letting you have that one. And if it was in a comp, welcome to sportsmanship and comp of 1.

[chaplain_quint]

now I am not so certain either any more, got the codex here now and it says any re-rolls instead of all.

on the other hand wouldn't this be a power that makes up for his pointscost?

[Death Dealer 101]

Tigurius is a potentially very powerful model. However with only two wounds he is very fragile. In one battle he was wounded due to wound allocation from shooting attacks and he failed his save, so was left with one wound by turn 2. For a expensive model with 1 wound that is not good.

 

I was very careful with him from then on joining him to a larger squad so as not to get targeted because ohe now had more body guards. I then teleported him and the squad several times over the battlefield and used avenger to basically burn all before him. The third power i used was either smite for more shooting if the job wasn't done with avenger and rapid firing boltguns or force dome to increase the squads safety.

 

Used this way you can put large amounts of firepower where you want it fairly reliably. However never leave him in assault range with the enemy if you haven't severely shot them to bits before hand, his stats just don't cut it in any battle. The physic powers that enhance his combat abilities are only useful if you assault not the other way around. However i was assaulted by an imperial guard officer and luckily was in terrain and he had no frags so i went first and force weaponed him to oblivion.

[waaanial00]

I was very careful with him from then on joining him to a larger squad so as not to get targeted because ohe now had more body guards. I then teleported him and the squad several times over the battlefield and used avenger to basically burn all before him. The third power i used was either smite for more shooting if the job wasn't done with avenger and rapid firing boltguns or force dome to increase the squads safety.

 

Not sure if you mean this but remember that you cannot use more than one shooting Psychic power in one turn, no matter how many psychic powers you can actually use in a turn. Therefore you cannot use Avenger and Smite as they are both (IIRC) shooting powers.

[Brother Tual]

tigurius is a support character - the best one available to marines..

 

He should be used exactly how an eldar player uses eldrad - to make your units kill things better, not the character killing things..

 

Force dome, Nullzone, Gate are going to be HIS greatest abilities - coupled with a strong, resilient unit his abilities more than warrant his cost - But like eldrad, he is fragile and if he gets cornered or locked or targetted he is sure to perish..

 

Might, quickening + force weapon is a nice combo but it is only good to take out weakened units or solo characters (daemons cant be instant killed...) there is not much that warrants exposing him like this as everything worth him killing is either eternal warrior or has numbers/wounds to withstand his onslaught (mephiston is probably the only notable example of a choice target, and even then he can resist you powers...)

[Dudley Nightshade]

Thanks for the new replies guys. I thought this thread was dead, so I haven't been checking it lately.

 

I have to admit, being new the the librarian game (and basically psykers in general), I think it would be pretty easy to get wrapped up in getting off three psychic powers per turn, regardless of normal shooting rules. In fact, if he had lived longer, I might have found myself trying exactly that too :D

 

I haven't actually seen Eldrad on the table, but from your description, Brother Tual, I think I have a sense of how it works. Basically keep him close to the action, but stay out of it directly.

 

Who knows. Maybe armed with a bit of advice and now knowing that he's terrible when assaulted, I might try again in a large enough game. Then again, spending less than half the points for a regular librarian is pretty appealing too.

[Brother Tual]

I haven't actually seen Eldrad on the table

 

you are truely blessed - Eldrad is a beast of a character. Eltar (eldrad and avatar) lists are manic..

 

I think I have a sense of how it works. Basically keep him close to the action, but stay out of it directly.

he is less likely to go pop if you play him like this.. and you get more from him the longer he lives.. His powers let him do this, so its not like mephiston who needs to be in combat to be effective.. When the time is right though, dont hold him back, late game or when he has done his job, get him stuck in if it wont loose you the game.. The might + quickening powers is a good combo but dont use it if it exposes him..

[Koremu]

He's a perfectly capable Assault Character against units of PBIs + Unit Leader, providing you make the Assault and can lock the Hidden Power Fist away from him.

 

However, because he doesn't have the option to take any form of transport, getting him into assault is tricky.

 

You don't really want to put him in a Land Raider because you lose a turn or two being sealed in a tin can not contributing.

 

So yes, tricky character to use well.

 

In my experience, does best accompanying Sternguard in support of the Primary Assault Troops. Rapid Fire Special Ammo backed up by Psychic Powers makes for one hell of an advance fire.

[chaplain_quint]

You don't really want to put him in a Land Raider because you lose a turn or two being sealed in a tin can not contributing.

 

You can still use your psychic hood in a Land raider or other powers like null zone. So, that way you can keep him safe untill you need to get him out.