Epic Thoughts Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I lol'ed at the Waco part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1918914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Lodbrok Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 That's what a Chaos Daemon army is for. "Oh, you like that cover you're in? I'll give you a turn of shooting before I'm on you like flies on stink." Truthfully, just use any DS unit. Terminators? Yes please. Or if you know you're dealing with an opponent who does this, try using Infiltrated Chosen to take up a designated building. That way when they approach, gank 'em. And with that list you use, it kinda seems like you're power gaming. I'd probably make it as hard as possible to kill me, too. Aye, it seems that way just a little. I know it would be a list I would think about not playing against. If only because of the cheese factor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1919026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Of Malfeasance X Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 The point I was trying to make is that smugly building your army so that you can park it in one building and play off of a flowchart strikes me as singularly un-fun. My irritation is that if someone is going to put their entire army in a building and play by flowchart, then I'm suddenly pigeon-holed into using basically the same flowchart strategy all the time--that bothers me. I LOVE when the Blood Angels come out to play and the game is going to turn into a submarine battle of who can out-think the other guy and get the charge. No, Lash isn't reliable because Mephiston is on the table, and that always changes the game. Movement is suddenly the most important part of the game, and even if I lose, I always have fun. I love when the Space wolves play, they have wonky rules and I never know whether they're going to get more attacks if I charge them than if I had let them charge me. I also love the flavor of their heroes. A Chaos Lord and a Rune priest with frost blade (that hits everything on 3's) are about evenly matched. I use a what army? Maybe I missed the point, but I don't think my army is that lame. I could have parked 2 sorcerers in 2 squads of 20 PMs each and lashed two enemy squads out of cover into sight of 9 obliterators each turn, but I don't. I built an army that is fun to play filled with a good selection of the units in my codex. There is no spam in my army, you will not find 2 squads of 20 nurgle raptors with a flying lash sorcerer in each one (.....though that's pretty disgusting). I have a good mix of long range (thousand sons, obliterators, defiler) and CC (zerks) along with a lot of close fire (CSM, PM). I'm not going to not use the Lash because people have to plan ahead for it. That would be like opting not to roll for Mephiston's 9 rending attacks, or Skulltaker's I-rend-you-on-a-4, or Eldrad not using Fortune (Does it seem like every Eldar army is led by Eldrad?) on his own squad and dooming your squad just because it's powerful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1920104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greymeister Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 So I'm guessing this automatically won't work 1/3 of the time? (Dawn of War deployment) How does the "gunline" take objectives? (Important 2/3 of the time) Blindly rushing to get into CC isn't any smarter than just staying still. Why would an army rush you if they can kill you from distance Or...on the other hand...maybe this was just a post for fun after all :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1920212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlight Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 After reading this rant and the responses to it, i wasn't sure if it is worth adding a comment to or not. I will add a list of suggestions to make your games more fun after we look at what you are complaining about. Your complaining because your recent opponents chose to use cover? if there is only one decent piece of cover in or near my deployment zone, thats where most of my troops will be. your opponents lists are all shooty, not close combat lists? hmmm, yeah i hate it when eldar players dont take harlequins and howling banshees :D and also take a look at this quote from earlier... tbh you can't complain about other peoples armies and how they play them when your running a cookiecutter lash/PM/zerker/oblit list. ;) pot,kettle,black........ how can you justify composition wise that your list isnt cheezy. you have a slaanesh marked demon prince but not one of the troops you have in the rest of the army shares his mark. I cant see bezerkers of khorne serving a slaanesh demon prince, or have plague marines fighting alongside thousand sons... Even Abbadon has the mark of undivided - or all of them to appease the four gods. With your list, do you expect your opponents to charge into the blades of your bezerkers? stand infront of the thousand son AP3 bolters? try to take down T5 Plague Marines in a stand up fire fight? Your opponents are obviously not as noobish as you think. Suggestions: 1.) Change your list, you cant change you opponents. I would suggest defilers, use ordnance to flush them out. or make your list more balanced and less intimidating, these are "friendly" games after all. the second option would make your opponents to come willingly and face you. 2.) Offer to swap armies with your opponent, playing against your list may be less fun than you think. unlike one other poster who said take away terrain, an make it like the red coats fighting the american colonials (there is a reason armies moved away from this tactic) 3.) I would suggest adding lots of terrain, this would make the game more interesting for both sides. more cover for your opponent so his or her army is more spread out, and more cover for your troops moving forward to engage them. 4.) Change the mission being played to an objectives based one 5.) A combination of the above. whether or not you take these on board or not is up to you, but i would suggest the %50 of the problem as it stands is yours. if you make positive changes in what you can change the rest will take care of itself good luck and happy gaming Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1920219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 you have a slaanesh marked demon prince but not one of the troops you have in the rest of the army shares his mark maybe he uses "counts as" , if it your army can have any mark you want . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1920334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 doesn't change the fact that it's a cheese list and tbh i wouldn't even set an army up on the board at all, i'd rather play someone else thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1920922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Use simple terrain which always blocks LOS Like this with no roofs. Simple and effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1921111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Use simple terrain which always blocks LOS Like this with no roofs. Simple and effective. I got to ask, Did you just have a random picture of a box on your computer, or did you go find it specifically for this post? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1921176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Specificly for this post to show what i mean. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1921757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zigokubasi Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 This is why I haven't played 40k in years. All this whining about "BAAAAWWW, YOUR LIST IS CHEESY" is BS. A friendly game doesn't mean you should handicap yourself with a retarded army list. The OP is right when he says that he's not making it as bad as he could be, and that's more than anyone could expect from me, tbh. I'd be more than happy to field lash sorcs and an oblit killbox. If that's not a strat you can deal with, it's probably because you keep refusing to play against it - it's called "a challenge" folks, you take it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1976811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 This is why I haven't played 40k in years. All this whining about "BAAAAWWW, YOUR LIST IS CHEESY" is BS. A friendly game doesn't mean you should handicap yourself with a retarded army list. That's entirely subjective. As a self-confessed fluff-nut, I would consider playing an unfluffy list as handicapping myself, and playing a purely power-gamer list would certainly restrict my fun. Both sides of the argument are equally valid, and that's what's important. It's not just about your fun. It's about you and your opponent both having fun. Turning up with a power-gamer list against a fluffy list without prior warning is considered a dirty trick, and rightly so. Both sides may be valid, but the differences between the two are still vast. That's why we have these arguments, and why the two sides are so opposed to each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1976903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 So, when you have an exploitable codex, it's perfectly acceptable to exploit the hell out of it, if possible, in order to gain an advantage? I've never had an exploitable codex, so I don't know... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1976941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuNCHBiZZLe Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Man this is why love playing games at my local store we're all guys that have been playing since 2nd and 3rd ED so we haven't changed all our tactics because of cover saves.My advice find new players or buy a line breaker box and pummel the building with S10 AP2 shots 3 times a round with a whole army bunched like that its only a matter of time.O and if everyone wants to play with heavy terrain try Cities of Death and bring the cover down on em'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1977018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zigokubasi Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Turning up with a power-gamer list against a fluffy list without prior warning is considered a dirty trick Ok, fair enough. I always operated from the assumption that the people I played with were using every advantage they could within the limitations imposed by the rules without resorting to exploits. If someone's fielding an army based on fluff rather than tactics, you're right. Things would get ugly fast and it simply wouldn't be fair. By the same token, when I read this thread, the general tone seemed more like people (a mod included) were jumping on this guy for his army list, which is not ok by any means. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1977079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis360 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Why is there always a building in every deployment zone? Why does that building always have line of sight to the whole table? Why aren't 1/3 of your games decided by who grabs a bunch of generally centralish objectives? Soundls like setup trouble to me. Yeah, me too. Be glad you HAVE buildings. My GW has super lazy poor-man's terrain. Anyway, yeah, if the objectives are placed right and the terrain is fair, I don't see how a Tau player can win objective grab by holing up and not moving. If you blow up his transports he'll have to footslog to the central objective with fire warriors or kroot... And if buildings are your main gripe, don't flamers have really juicy rules in relation to buildings? I'm not sure, since I don't need to do that, but I think they do. I mean... chosen, outflank, 5 flamers, dark reapers desperately trying to drop and roll... Its not even very expensive... 150 points with a rhino. Anyway, I have a small tau army and a much bigger CSM army. I was thinking of expanding on my Tau this year but seeing the cover save crazyness of 5th and how big a boost close combat has gotten, I'm giving up on my Tau. Long live CSM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1977131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Turning up with a power-gamer list against a fluffy list without prior warning is considered a dirty trick, and rightly so. Both sides may be valid, but the differences between the two are still vast. and what do you do when someone comes with a powerbuild army that is also fluffy ? Like chaos BL list with 2 pms 2 zerkers 6 oblits or any eldar list or a cantor/khan/vulkan build[cant get any more fluffy then that , as the special rules dictate what units to pick]. also playing against a weak list when you want a game [and w40k is a table top game] isnt much fun either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1977424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Turning up with a power-gamer list against a fluffy list without prior warning is considered a dirty trick, and rightly so. Both sides may be valid, but the differences between the two are still vast.and what do you do when someone comes with a powerbuild army that is also fluffy ? Like chaos BL list with 2 pms 2 zerkers 6 oblits or any eldar list or a cantor/khan/vulkan build[cant get any more fluffy then that , as the special rules dictate what units to pick]. I think that's called Codex Creep. :) Basically you've been screwed over by GW. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163116-what-is-it-with-people/page/2/#findComment-1977489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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