Roland Durendal Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 To put it simply, must you declare you are using HI during the movement phase or only during the assault phase? Argument arose in a game I played yesterday because the guy I was playing said, as per his interpretation of the rules, he just had to "elect" (as it states), a unit to use HI but not declare it to me. Then during the assault phase he declared it. My interpretation was that its implied that you declare it during the movement phase once the unit you elect the unit to do so. Either way after much debate I just let him do it, I just want clarity to see whether I am reading too much into the rules, whether it's just a polite thing to do (though not necessary) or whether I'm completely wrong. Thanks guys Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Since it clearly says you have to declare HI before rolling for scatter when arriving, it is quite obvious that you have to announce your intentions before deploying the squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1918205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 The other guy was trying to screw you over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1918211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Think about this, if he doesnt announce it before he scatters, then if he scatters poorly and out of assault range, he could change his mind and choose to shoot or run and not Heroic Intervention. But if he announces it, like he should, then there is no question as to what the unit can do. Basicly, he announces what unit is shooting and at who, right? He doesnt shoot it first and then tell you once the results are determined--its the same thing... even if he is not cheating by changing his mind, by announcing his actions in a two player game, both players know what is happening. Keeping secrets in a two player game defeats the purpose of playing a two player game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1918217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Durendal Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 Thanks for the response guys. I figured I was right in saying he had to declare it during movement. The debate arose because he didn't declare it during movement, but did during the assault phase. He claimed that since it saysd all he had to do was "elect a unit" during the movement phase and that he didn't have to "declare" it until the assault phase, he didn't have to tell me. He also claimed since I knew what he was going to do (which I did of course), he didn't have to declare it to me because it was understood. Arg. I pointed out the wording about doing it before rolling to scatter and such, but again he argued since he used a locator beacon and didn't roll for scatter, it was irrelevant. Thanks guys! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1918252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 To be honest under the circumstances it does sound like you're both being a bit silly. Under the circumstances mentioned it seems it was crystal clear what he was doing and the beacon would mean that it couldn't go wrong it wouldn't matter that much anyway. Given that you don't seem to seriously doubt that he was using Heroic intervention it looks like you where trying to deny the assault based on a procedural technicality of not specifically stating "I'm using heroic intervention." earlier in the turn is pretty bad sportsmanship in my book. Fact remains that yes, he is supposed to tell you since if he doesn't tell anyone then how would you know what he'd elected to do. If you actually read the rule (with neither of you apparently did) it does say; "If he delcares heroic intervention..." (Marine codex, page 62, 6th line of the Heroic intervention rule). But if its blatently obvious hes doing it why be tiresome about it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1919675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Durendal Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 To be honest under the circumstances it does sound like you're both being a bit silly. Under the circumstances mentioned it seems it was crystal clear what he was doing and the beacon would mean that it couldn't go wrong it wouldn't matter that much anyway. Given that you don't seem to seriously doubt that he was using Heroic intervention it looks like you where trying to deny the assault based on a procedural technicality of not specifically stating "I'm using heroic intervention." earlier in the turn is pretty bad sportsmanship in my book. Fact remains that yes, he is supposed to tell you since if he doesn't tell anyone then how would you know what he'd elected to do. If you actually read the rule (with neither of you apparently did) it does say; "If he delcares heroic intervention..." (Marine codex, page 62, 6th line of the Heroic intervention rule). But if its blatently obvious hes doing it why be tiresome about it? Oh I did read the rule and know it verbatim and quoted it verbatim to him, particualry the parts about electing pre-dice rolls and then declaring it. So it wasn't a fact that neither of us read the rule (since we both did), it was just he interpreted it differently and believe he didn't have to tell his opponent about it until he planned on assaulting. As for it being unsportsmanlike, how is it unsportsmanlike to point out a rules mishap? I'd expect the same. What is the point of having rules if you're going to ignore them? Mind you this also wasn't the first rules mess up of his during this game. I let him slide with another rule issue earlier. After awhile, being friendly and letting rules slide gets tiresome. Bad sportsmanship is consistently forgetting rules and expecting the other player to just continually and casually let them slide. Additionally, just cause he was landing onto a beacon, doesn't guarantee any of my units were w/in assault range. And as DevianID said, just cause I knew what he planned on doing, doesn't mean he can then ignore the rule. Anyway issue resolved. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1919871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I don't get it. Did he or didn't he declare wether or not he wanted to do HI before rolling the scatter die (or the point where he would normally roll the scatter die)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1919921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurasuke Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I don't get it. Did he or didn't he declare wether or not he wanted to do HI before rolling the scatter die (or the point where he would normally roll the scatter die)? From what I can tell he did not declare it before scattering. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1919953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Then he cheated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1920018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Durendal Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Yeah he didn't declare it. Which is why I called him on it during the assault phase. Thanks guys for backing me up on this. I wasn't tryin to be a dick in the game, but it's kinda big part of the ability and a prerequisite to use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1920135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 mostly it is important due to scatter and the inability to shoot when using HI. no harm no foul, but generally bad form. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1920836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Secret Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 If the rule says you need to declare it, or declare it at a specific time, then you need to declare it. If you need to declare it and you don not, then you do not get it. Period. Your opponent did not have a leg to stand on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163219-heroic-intervention/#findComment-1923403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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