Deep Striking

[Losman]

I think it is pretty clear in the rule book but others at my store seem to disagree. According to the picture below would the deep striking unit need to make a roll on the deep strike mishap table for not completing the second circle?

[Maligoare]

P95 of the BRB says yes, if you have to start a third circle in order to fit all the models in before completing the second circle.

 

"If any of the models in a unit can not be deployed because they would land ... in impassable terrain... something has gone wrong. The controlling player must roll on the Deep Strike mishap table and apply the results."

 

and

 

"Models must be placed in base contact with the original model in a circle around it. When the forst circle is complete, a further circle should be placed with each model touching the circle inside it. Each circle should include as many models as will fit."

[Souchan]

You'd be correct sir ;)

[Praeger]

I am curious to know what the players argument AGAINST this rule was?

[Seahawk]

When the first circle is complete, a further circle should be placed with each model touching the circle inside it. Each circle should include as many models as will fit.

 

I can easily see it with the "should," as in "they should be placed in more circles, but you don't really have to, so if you can't that's alright." Should =/= must.

[Steelmage99]

In the same way that you can "ask" your opponent to reroll the damage die if you have a SW Ven Dreadnought, but he can choose to say "no"?

 

Come on!

 

"Should" can certainly be an imperative. As in something that is expected of you to do.

[Cedric]

I can't see how you interpret "should" as "this is purely optional and up to the player to decide"

 

Let us define the word "should"

 

Here's what www.dictionary.com says

 

Should

1. pt. of shall.

2. (used to express condition): Were he to arrive, I should be pleased.

3. must; ought (used to indicate duty, propriety, or expediency): You should not do that.

 

Note that "should" is a modern derivation of "shall" which is defined as reads below.

Shall

1. plan to, intend to, or expect to: I shall go later.

2. will have to, is determined to, or definitely will: You shall do it. He shall do it.

3. (in laws, directives, etc.) must; is or are obliged to: The meetings of the council shall be public.

 

With no room for speculation, "should" dictates proper proceedure. When possible, you should deply in complete circles originating from the original model. Anything less is a result of either wishful thinking, cheating, or dyslexia.

[werewolf_nr]

I can't see how you interpret "should" as "this is purely optional and up to the player to decide"

 

Let us define the word "should"

 

Here's what www.dictionary.com says

 

Should

1. pt. of shall.

2. (used to express condition): Were he to arrive, I should be pleased.

3. must; ought (used to indicate duty, propriety, or expediency): You should not do that.

 

Note that "should" is a modern derivation of "shall" which is defined as reads below.

Shall

1. plan to, intend to, or expect to: I shall go later.

2. will have to, is determined to, or definitely will: You shall do it. He shall do it.

3. (in laws, directives, etc.) must; is or are obliged to: The meetings of the council shall be public.

 

With no room for speculation, "should" dictates proper proceedure. When possible, you should deply in complete circles originating from the original model. Anything less is a result of either wishful thinking, cheating, or dyslexia.

 

English FTW

[Race Bannon]

I should print this out just in case it happens to me.

[Cedric]

Unless you play imbecilles, the BRB will suffice perfectly on its own in this case.

 

I can't see how there could be any doubt of how you place DSing troops.

The only flexibility you have is how you place the models that won't fit in a full circle and these models still have to be in base contact with the inner ones.

[Seahawk]

I know. But I'm saying that for some people who think of should as not being an imperative, more like a guideline type of thought, they would say that you don't have to arrive in concentric circles. It's the only way I can see them thinking otherwise.

[Praeger]

Yeah I see what Seahawk is saying.

 

I "should" shave today.....dosnt mean I will shave or have to.

[Cedric]

It implies the right thing to do, however.

If we assume the role of gentlemen instead of rule lawyers, I think none of us will question the proceedure, despite the wording.

[Isiah]

The rules in deep strike placement is well known and must have been practiced / or seen to be practiced by us many times. Seems we are arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Full concentric circles must be made with models touching bases of the previous inner circle before another circle can be started. If any model can't be placed in its correct circle then mishap table comes into play.

[Thantoes]

I dont want to start a whole thread but I just want to add another question to this one as it also involves a deepstrike misshap question.

 

While I know that if you scatter within an inch of an enemy that you have to roll on the mishap table. But what happens if your scatter roll lands you underneath an enemy. i.e. he is on another level of a building. Would the fact that each level is 3 inches above each other mean that you can then build your circle as you are more than 1 inch away or would you say that since you are that close you still roll on the mishap table?

 

Happened to me today, we couldnt decide so rolled off and I lost. Lost 2 kill points (librarian and sternguard) and almost lost the game ;)

[Legatus]

Reading the rules for ruins on pages 82 and 84, where it describes that blast and template weapons will only hit the models on the floor level that was the designated target, and that weapon ranges between models on different floors are still measured from base to base, I don't get the idea that two models on different floors underneath another occupy the same space.

[nighthawks]

models on separate floors of a ruin do not occupy the same space, but remember that the BRB, on page 95, states that models deepstriking into a ruin will always arrive on the ground floor.

[Gunstar]

only the particular "ruin" in question was a fortified wall with no ground floor.... You still won me fair an square you big oaff! I'll get you next time gadget!!! Mwhahahahaaaa.... It was well funny though, losing two KP's like that! :yes:

[Thantoes]

only the particular "ruin" in question was a fortified wall with no ground floor.... You still won me fair an square you big oaff! I'll get you next time gadget!!! Mwhahahahaaaa.... It was well funny though, losing two KP's like that! :)

 

Go go "Gadget melta to the face" :)

 

I know, they died fair and square but it is something I had never thought of so its nice to have the rule clarified for my own benefit.