Need help. A lot of help.

[Brother Captain Andrecus]

I know this has probably been asked a lot before, but how does one go about killing Fishheads?

 

My problem is this. I play against the Tau a lot. In fact, I've played more games against Tau than anybody else. And one player in particular is my real problem. Fire Warriors I can deal with. Kroot, I can deal with. Stealthsuits and Devilfish, I can deal with. What I can't deal with, is Crisis suits. He has three Crisis suits, and a Shas'O that he runs all juiced up. The Shas'O gets a Feel no Pain save, a 2+ armor save, a 3+ Inv save, and usually at least a 4+ cover save, since he always jumps out of cover, shoots, then jumps back into cover on his assault phase. Apparently this is a big Tau tactic...

 

With his C-suits, he jump-shoot-jumps me to pieces, and he always configures them to deal especially with my Terminators, which he fears immensely. Seriously. He craps his pants everytime they even get close to any of his units. ^_^ Unfortunately, his Crisis suits are perfectly equipped to smoosh my Termis while they're in the open, and I can't Deepstrike them in because he always deploys his suits close to his own table edge and/or in an area that's cramped with impassible terrain, which makes Deepstriking very risky.

 

And I can't get anything close to him using normal means because he just blows it out of the water. I'm talking suits that cost 90 points each here. They're INSANELY shooty!

 

Help me! I don't have anything that can answer to those suits. My lists are always Terminator heavy and are usually woefully deficient in the Heavy support market. I also have a penchant for expensive HQ choices, usually either a Captain with Lighting Claw and Stormbolter or a Termi Chappy with Stormbolter and Crozius.

 

Usually, I field a Vindicator, a single Tactical Squad, my HQ choice, a Scout squad with Shotguns (The Scouts always die by the second turn, max, even when I hug cover...), and a Terminator Squad usually composed of Six Termis, one with an Assault Cannon/Powerfist, and one with a Chainfist/Stormbolter, and the rest with Stormbolter and Chainfists except for the Sarge.

 

I also now have some Sternguard and an Ironclad Dreadnought available to me, but I've never used either, so I don't know how they're used very well.

 

Can anybody give me some advice on an army list that might help me, or some tactical advice? Possibly recommend a unit that might do the trick?

[chaplain_quint]

With a list like that, offcourse you get wiped.

what you need is fast assault units. Use an assault squad within a raider or two assaultsquads with jumppacks or zoom some scout bikers in cover an drop a vanguard on top of him.

Termies are nice but if you don't use them in a better way they always end up in the open and hence, dead.

 

You need to be on top of him as soon as possible while presenting so many targets to him that he can't possibly target them all. Try using infiltrators or outflank him. Just race everything towards him and you eventually get in combat.

 

in 1500 I would most certain use these units:

 

Assaultsquad 10 men

 

2 x tactical with powerfist + flamer + ML in Rhino

 

Maybe a raider

 

predators

 

more assaultsquads

 

attack bikes.

 

Concentrate your list building on mobile fast assault units and you should be fine.

[Jackelope King]

Just FYI, it's impossible for a Tau Shas'O to get 3+ invulnerable saves. Shield drones or a shield generator can only manage a 4+. For the rest of the crisis suits, it sounds like he's running something pricey like fireknives (which have a multitracker, plasma rifle, and missile pod). Unless each one is its own monat (a single-model unit) upgraded to a Team Leader or Shas'Vre, or they're a bodyguard squad, you can't pump all the Crisis Suits up to that level of value. Also realize that he can't take special issue wargear more than once in his list. But against terminators, that's precisely what I'd run with my Tau: plasma rifle, multi-tracker, missile pod.

 

Anyway, Crisis suits are easy to kill. For any of them not accompanied by a happy little shield drone, tag them with the reliable ol' Krak missile. Instant death, no save. Even Jump-Shoot-Jumping behind cover is only a 4+ save, so on average, 3 krak missiles = 1 dead Crisis Suit. Bike squads with meltaguns and / or Attack Bikes with multimeltas will eat them alive. They'll close fast, gaining a 3+ cover save while doing so. Then shoot their faces off.

 

If he sticks his Crisis suits all the way in a corner, claim your 4+ cover save when he starts shooting from long range with weapons like the Plasma rifle behind the rest of his army. Remember that the only really long range weapon they can use is the mighty Missile Pod, which wounds reliably but is only AP4, so you still get your armor save. It's the plasma rifle that kills Termies, and that's only range 24", and if he's daring getting into rapid fire range, he's just asking you to kill him next turn. If he's jump-shoot-jumping behind a single unit to deny you a cover save but claim one for himself, then that's one incredibly fragile unit just waiting for you to eat it alive to reach those poor Crisis Suits. Train your ordinance on that unit. They'll die with one volley, as you no doubt know.

 

As far as army list composition, Chaplain Quint has the right idea. Tau are a mobile shooty force. If you're trying to footslog it against them without massive numbers, you're going to lose. Seriously, I think the only Space Marines who can footslog it against the Tau would be a big Black Templar army.

 

If you're feeling cheesy, get yourself a squad of Scout Bikers. Give the Sergeant a power fist and politely suggest he go punch some Tau face off. Scout Bikers can infiltrate, and then turbo-boost 24" on their scout move, all but guaranteeing that they'll be able to take their 12" move and assault 6" to go stomp some Tau on turn 1. Ideally, you want quite a few of these guys, so even if something unforseen happens and you roll nothing but 1s for your Sergeant, you can still tar-pit his shooty little Crisis Suits until the rest of your army has butchered the rest of his.

[foster]

I'm no Tau expert so I'm not familier with Tau tactics and weaponary, so my advice may lead to disaster.

If you want to get your termies into assault fast try out a Land Raider Crusador, capable of transporting up to eight terminators it makes for ideal protection from nasty ap 1-2 anti-terminator weaponary (any land raider is good but I like to transport 7 TH/SS termies with Pedro). You'll just have to protect the land raider from getting destroyed, but since there aren't many weapons in the Tau's arsonal that can take on a Land raider I'm sure you can find some way to nullify them before they shoot. Might help to have the Land Raider in reserve so you can deal with those anti-land raider units before it arrives to take out those Fish heads later in the game.

[Ryzouken]

Also, his suits cannot get better than a 4+ inv (shield generator) and his other suits are equipped with (probably) a plasma rifle and fusion cannon. That's 1 shot at greater than 12 inches, and 3 shots within 12, all ap 2 or better and Str6/8. And yes, they can JSJ, but if he's doing it into terrain during the assault phase (as you inferred) he gets to make dangerous terrain tests each time.

 

All that said, either stick your termies in a land raider or leave them home. Against Tau, I'd recommend the latter. I'd also recommend picking up a bunch of missile launchers and/or multimeltas ( the latter best served on Speeders/Bikes/Raiders) as their Str 8 will instant death suits that fail saves. Even then, you should hug cover as best you can and pray.

 

The ideal solution is to assault them. Assault Squads, Bike squads, anything in a Land Raider... these are all decent recommendations. I like Bike Squads and Assault Squads better than the transport ideas because Tau have railguns (up to nine of them) but with canny movement and enough cover on the table, you should be able to deliver some form of CC units.

 

EDIT: Tau can pop Raiders better than most armies thanks to the possibility of their carrying up to nine railguns and 30 fusion weapons (though that is an insane number of points, this indicates the upper cap of what they can carry. Expect something closer to six railguns. More than enough for 1-3 Land Raiders.)

[tedwin183]

The way I always dismantle Tau is to do what they aren't very good at: cc. An assault squad, 10-strong moving carefully and then suddenly jumping and then charging into the suits will ruin their day. Suits won't last more than 2 rounds in combat, no matter their configuration against assault marines. Really anything that moves fast is good. 8-strong bike squad would be good too.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Anyway, Crisis suits are easy to kill. For any of them not accompanied by a happy little shield drone, tag them with the reliable ol' Krak missile. Instant death, no save. Even Jump-Shoot-Jumping behind cover is only a 4+ save, so on average, 3 krak missiles = 1 dead Crisis Suit. Bike squads with meltaguns and / or Attack Bikes with multimeltas will eat them alive. They'll close fast, gaining a 3+ cover save while doing so. Then shoot their faces off.

Trueth is spoken, and as you seam to like the termies, you get two shots from a cyclone missle launcher. I <3 my cyclone (I too have a termie heavy army, more because thats the models I have than any consous choice though, of course I got it from good will for 3 bucks -_- ) He gets no saves cus ap3, gets no FNP because instant death, ignores all those fancy wounds, also because of instant death. So you roll to hit (3+) roll to wound (2+) let him take a cover save (4+), if you rain even a handfull of those at him, hes going to be loseing suits rapidly.

[Brother Nodd]

Take it from a long time Tau player..assault squads will give any Tau player reason to worry and re-think their deployment.

 

Just remember when his Shas'o with +2 save goes to jump back into cover he has to roll a D6..one of the downfalls of Iridium armor.

 

Landspeeders can move fast enough to catch his suits..multi-melta,krak missile's,assault cannon should turn 'em to junk.

 

Hope this helps.

[Ryzouken]

That's true, I had forgotten that Iridium armor slows down that assault move (by making it randomised)

 

The difficulty behind using cyclones (or other long range krak missiles) is, depending on the type of cover you use on your boards, you might not be able to draw line of sight period. But yes, if you can draw LOS, Krak wins.

 

To that end, consider running some scout bikes with teleport homers. You can turbo boost in on turn 1 netting a 3+cover save, then home your termies in on the bikes for a no scatter deep strike with Cyclone death.

[Lord Sinaris]

I have recently played a match allied with a Tau player. He did not bring a meager 3, but 9 Crisis to the table, and the Power Armour on the other side of the table weapt heavily.

 

They ARE evil bastards, true. But there are counter-measures. Always remember that they are a mid-range shooting unit. You can pick them out with Missiles from 48' and they can't do anything about it. One of the worst mistakes you can make against Tau is to bring in your valuable shooting-units nearer to him. Really, on long distance, he might slaughter you with his railguns and whatever, but if he is using Crisis, chances are that most of his army will, in that case, not be used properly. If you field a heavy list with long-range weaponry, it is INDEED possible to win a shooting match against Tau. Bust away their heavy support, and then either snipe out the mid-range units left, or counter-assault them when they finally realize that they have to move forward to reach you. Drawing a Crisis into the open can be great fun, really, especially since anything as weak as a 5-men-tacsquad can kill them.

 

The other way is, of course, to just shove everything you have in their face, hope you survive the round of shooting that follows, and then kill them. Assault Squads, Bike Squads, or any CC-unit in a transport either lucky (Rhinos) or heavy enough (Raiders) to make it to them - they all put pressure on their movement, and will eventually reach them. Drop-podding something into their most valuable units might also be a shock, but even though a Sternguard or a Dread might shoot away something important, chances are high that it will be gone the next turn.

[Ryzouken]

It's a shame they got rid of Fear of the Darkness. That power alone dealt with Tau as long as you fielded a sufficiently equipped Librarian (I'm thinking one with either heightened mobility, infiltrate, or a drop pod). Broke Broadsides off the board, disrupted firewarrior firing lines, and sent Crisis flitting out of there too. I once played a 1500 point game in 4th where my single Librarian broke over half his army in two turns with just that power. The last few suits got lascannoned when they poked their noses out of reserves.

[Brother Captain Andrecus]

Thanks for all the info guys!

 

This should help a lot. Unfortunately, my gaming group is full of people who are new to the hobby, so we're playing mostly small-ish games for now, usually about 800-1000 pts.

 

The problem I have is that I'm too cheap to buy a Land-Raider. I'd love to get some bikes, though. They sound like the solution to my problem.

 

Thanks again Brothers!

[chaplain_quint]

Thanks for all the info guys!

 

This should help a lot. Unfortunately, my gaming group is full of people who are new to the hobby, so we're playing mostly small-ish games for now, usually about 800-1000 pts.

 

The problem I have is that I'm too cheap to buy a Land-Raider. I'd love to get some bikes, though. They sound like the solution to my problem.

 

Thanks again Brothers!

 

Or try ye ol' and trusted assaultmarine?

[Ryzouken]

a unit of 10 jumpers will cost something like 50 bucks (American; the price of a Raider) and bikes will cost more (15 American per, 10 if you go eBay).

 

Try going the long range missile route. You should a bucket of missiles laying around from tactical squad boxes you've bought and if your Termies aren't painted, you can pop the assault cannon(s) off and stick on some Cyclone Missiles.