Verythrax Draconis Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Well, I know that we discussed this lots of times, and I'm just bored out of my mind, so since we have a good chance that the C:DH/GK is really at works at this very moment, let's list our thoughts - maybe Phil is reading this :( My ideas are: - some extra GK units like a elite retinue (like that in that new image at BOLS), or a jump pack unit (it's the only "specialized" GK unit I could think of that wouldn't damage the image of the GK as "multi-role" experts) - some exclusive Land Raider variants, IA style (GKs are in Titan, Mars is just around the corner) - GK scouts simply are not an option, so how about Inq scouts? - character-based army list variations (some GK special characters allow other different list options) - some new, better way to use GK with SM lists and vice-versa (or I just played too much Dark Crusade) Your ideas? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzudzilla Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 GK Lancers...if there is a single idea I wish GW would take from these forums it's them...They don't even have to be good, yeah, make them overpriced and useless and I'll still buy sixty of them just for the coolness factor... I do however have one worry, if that piece of artwork is GW approved i sincerely hope that they don't plan on turning GK into grey spaze marienz... Don't give GKs options to buy rhinos, razorbacks and things like that, instead come up with a viable and balanced way for them to enter play via teleportation as per fluff. Jump pack GKs , I have to admit appeal to me a lot. In any case, i hope the codex is flexible enough to ensure that all the armies won't look the same . Right now the only tournament viable pure GK army is the tri-raider list, try using dreads against someone who came with a brutal tourny list and it's going to be a really quick game...Oh and GK LR redemeers as part of the regular codex would be all kinds of burninating awesomeness... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Ideas that expand into the space 'inside the box', so to speak, inside the parameters of our current fluff, instead of thinking outside the fluff and then retconning everything. - character-based army list variations (some GK special characters allow other different list options) I wouldn't mind that, as long as it is tied to variants on the GK Hero rather than special characters. Rather like the idea SM Captain, Chaplain and Librarian each unlocking a different variant list if so wished. - some extra GK units like a elite retinue (like that in that new image at BOLS), or a jump pack unit (it's the only "specialized" GK unit I could think of that wouldn't damage the image of the GK as "multi-role" experts) I'd like some Veteran GKTs, maybe with the option to use multiple squad psychic powers. Also, one squad psychic power as part of the unit base cost for almost all GK units (Lancers maybe being the exception). Come on, we're paying 25pts per model as opposed to the SM 16pts per model. Let's have some of that psychic prowess we're supposedly known for! Say one for PAGKs, 2 for GKTs, 3 plus the ability to use 2 per turn for GK Heroes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euradaeces Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I agree with most of the above. The Knights are supposed to be the best of the best (all right, maybe the custodes are a notch higher), above and beyond a normal space marine (who are superhuman in their own right.) They have access to the most holy of artifacts and are based, as Dzudzilla correctly points out, in the Sol system, the heart of the Imperium and home of the Mechanicus' greatest forgeworld. They should have access to vehicles and equipment no other organisation, bar the inquisition itself, should be able to command - and said equipment should be specifically tailored to their role as lightning strike daemon hunters. I'd love to see new representation of units already listed (as well as an update of those units, but not much). So assault sqauds should have power armour with teleport configuration (more runes, bulky equipment packs etc), purgation squads should have ammo hoppers and 2nd ed Devastator inspired leg braces (this is just my opinion on the aesthetics). The new space marine codex lists something like 10 special characters (i don't have it so I guessing from what I've seen and heard) - I think the GK's could do better than 1 next time around. And I wonder if GW are thinking of tying in a bit more with the BL books - though I would hate to see SM Chaplains in GK armour - maybe a new rank or role of spiritual leader could be attributed to certain Grand Masters - just as the marines have the master of the chapter doing different jobs, so each GM could be responsible for some facet of the GK's operation - there's a chance for a special character or two. The land raider should stay as the primary ground based mode of GK transport - rhino's just don't fit the image I think. Though as deepstrike insurgents they should have something other than a thunderhawk for aerial transport (bar one shot drop pods) - something sleek and speedy that can get a team (or even a single knight) into a cultist enclave and back out with the minimum of fuss - don't forget the Grey Knights are a myth to most of the imperium, even among the astartes, the need for secrecy is paramount to allow them to do their work without exposing the people of the imperium to the knowledge of chaos) - this must be because a) they kill everyone they meet (and as they only meet people when daemons are around that's probably logical) or B) because they are suberb at extraction without witness. Anywho, just a few random ideas of the top of my head, and they will probably all be dwarfed by the might of the new codex... or maybe not, who knows with our luck Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Though as deepstrike insurgents they should have something other than a thunderhawk for aerial transport (bar one shot drop pods) - something sleek and speedy that can get a team (or even a single knight) into a cultist enclave and back out with the minimum of fuss Teleportation fits the bill nicely here. Fitted as standard to GK Strike Cruisers, appear and disappear with a flash and a bang. Only the Dreadnoughts need Drop Pods because they're too big. B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Ideas that expand into the space 'inside the box', so to speak, inside the parameters of our current fluff, instead of thinking outside the fluff and then retconning everything. Sure thing. I don't want to change nothing radically, just some novelty factor that usually comes with a new Codex. Thanks to remind me about Librarians and Chaplains! I thought about those in GK before, it would make they more true to the SM origin, without really transforming them in normal SMs, and would spice up the army at the same time. Considering how "special" the GKs really are, I wouldn't mind (too much, at least) if they were and HQ 0-1 option, or named special characters, though. maybe with the option to use multiple squad psychic powers. Maybe something like the SoB's faith powers, psyker's base? wink wink Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euradaeces Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Though as deepstrike insurgents they should have something other than a thunderhawk for aerial transport (bar one shot drop pods) - something sleek and speedy that can get a team (or even a single knight) into a cultist enclave and back out with the minimum of fuss Teleportation fits the bill nicely here. Fitted as standard to GK Strike Cruisers, appear and disappear with a flash and a bang. Only the Dreadnoughts need Drop Pods because they're too big. B) Quite correct - I may have watched too many episodes of top gear recently... I have a hankering for shiny new speedy goodness :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzudzilla Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 To be honest, i would rather keep Chaplains out of it, i'm part of the " We don't need reassurance and spiritual guidance from anyone, not one of us has faltered throughout the millennia and that is the way it is going to be as long as the Emperor's light shines upon us" crowd. I just don't think it fits the fluff...A Librarian like character on the other hand sounds very nice indeed. Perhaps not as powerful in CC as a Grandmaster and instead focusing more on a support role through his superior psychic powers. Come to think a Librarian-like character could provide another way of moving about the battlefield. *edit the word superior is perhaps not the right one in this case, what i meant was a GM in my mind is the guy who very rarely shows up on the battlefield and when does...all hell breaks loose, i would imagine in midst of the heaviest fighting kicking butt left and right. The Librarian would be more of a guy hanging back a little bit, crushing a soulgrinder with his mind there and creating an impassable barrier for the daemons trying to flank here... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Warp Spider esk Teleportation on Board for GKs. Chaplains. Upadted Special Rules, Wargear and Psychic Powers. Stubborn over Fearless, while being immune to Pinning. All NFW being classed as Power Weapons. Take that Bloodletters! Errata of the Daemon Codex to make thier Abilities Psychic Powers, or to Upgrade our Psychic Power defense to also work versus anything any 'Demon' can do. Psycannon Bolts as Sternguard like ammo options. And that's just to start! B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 To be honest, i would rather keep Chaplains out of it, i'm part of the " We don't need reassurance and spiritual guidance from anyone, not one of us has faltered throughout the millennia and that is the way it is going to be as long as the Emperor's light shines upon us" crowd. I just don't think it fits the fluff... Not reassurance, but someone that minister the rites and such - the purest among the pure. Or just someone old, wise and venerable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzudzilla Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Not reassurance, but someone that minister the rites and such - the purest among the pure. Or just someone old, wise and venerable. When you put it that way, it does begin to sound appealing. The man who leads the choir as they sing praises to the Emperor while crushing the warp-scum... *edit Need to get a hang of this forum quoting thing...this thread has made come out of my shell and i realize that i dont know the first thing about using the tools provided... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzudzilla Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 One thing that just sprung into my mind....a character with the Eternal Warrior special rule...i hate having my GM killed by a single hit from a meltagun...failed invulnerables galore... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilgar Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 My "wishes" are more general. 1) Grey Knights as vanilla should be good, expensive but good. And be the main troop choice. 2) IST, love em, upgrade em, keep em as "elite IG", let em choose more common vehicles like Rhinos. 3) GKT, these guys could really need a pump, make em worth the 50 points. 4) The psychic powers should be more common, and better. 5) The henchmen, should be looked through, they need a make over. They are fine and cool and makes an army(Inq) unike and should stay this way, just give em something more. 6) The DH special rules. Oh boy, u all know the issues. 7) Don´t make the DH another SM chapter, with some unik options...this would ruin everything. My thoughts. Loved to share em, and the times are not as dark after all :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Not reassurance, but someone that minister the rites and such - the purest among the pure. Or just someone old, wise and venerable. You mean a role more equivalent to an SM Venerable Dreadnought, rather than a Chaplain? maybe with the option to use multiple squad psychic powers. Maybe something like the SoB's faith powers, psyker's base? wink wink No, no. Proper psychic powers, full power, lots of them, maybe with a modifier to attempts to block them using psychic hoods and the like. The counterbalance being the hideous number of Perils of the Warp 'accidents' we could potentially suffer. Same deal with tying them to the Squad Leader as the psychic focus - he's the only one who counts as a psyker, but if he dies the squad can't use their psychic power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 You mean a role more equivalent to an SM Venerable Dreadnought, rather than a Chaplain? In some sense, but not as simple like that. Maybe something as the wiseman that is above the others due his knowledge/illumination, or just the guy that celebrate the mass - you know, even in a monastery full of monks someone needs to celebrate the mass ;) (it's fluff wise, since I believe the GKs beings the best among the best, they don't have a very pyramidal hierarchy like the average SM chapter - the GM is more Godlike to them than the CM is for the SM, but besides that, they seem themselves as equals - I didn't read any BL book, anyway. Rules wise, maybe some kind of GK hero/SM chaplain hybrid, dunno) No, no. Proper psychic powers, full power, lots of them, maybe with a modifier to attempts to block them using psychic hoods and the like. The counterbalance being the hideous number of Perils of the Warp 'accidents' we could potentially suffer. Same deal with tying them to the Squad Leader as the psychic focus - he's the only one who counts as a psyker, but if he dies the squad can't use their psychic power. Well, I like the idea of tying it to the squad leader, just like the Veteran SoBs add faith to the pool. Like pay extra X points and the squad leader is a psyker. It makes a lot of sense rules-wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Well, I like the idea of tying it to the squad leader, just like the Veteran SoBs add faith to the pool. Like pay extra X points and the squad leader is a psyker. It makes a lot of sense rules-wise. No, no, for free. It already exists in the current codex, just without the ability to actually use an active psychic power (obviously fluffwise The Aegis, Rites of Exorcism and The Shrouding are psychic powers). Look under the "Special Daemonhunters Notes", "Psykers" section, p20, C:DH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzudzilla Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hmm, how about a dreadnought with twin-linked flamestorm incinerators on both arms...str 6 ap 3 , ignores invulnerable saves...imagine drop podding that into the middle of the enemy's army.... To continue the psychic powers discussion , i take it the GK special rules would be kept , only updated to actually work in 5th and we would be given the option to buy some additional ones? Fluff wise it makes a lot of sense, no other army in 40k contitutes of psykers only so it's only logical that we should have many more. I'd see the total number reaching twenties divided between abilities i.e. the Daemons codex, Shadowseer's Veil of tears or the abilities of Warlocks - psychic powers that are ON all the time and require no rolling and regular psychic powers... About the chaplain...I'm really starting to like the idea, however...what would he be like rules-wise? The SM chappy has Honour of the Chapter which to us as we stand now is useless since it only confers fearless. Liturgies of battle seem like a very cool thing , but given the GK WS5 we hit about 75 percent of everything we encounter on 3+ anyway so the rerolls to hit are not so great for us...actually i take that back, i have a pretty miserable record when it comes to dice rolling so i would welcome that.... Hope it's not out of order to discuss the actual potential rules...we can dream i think... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 About the chaplain...I'm really starting to like the idea, however...what would he be like rules-wise? The SM chappy has Honour of the Chapter which to us as we stand now is useless since it only confers fearless. Liturgies of battle seem like a very cool thing , but given the GK WS5 we hit about 75 percent of everything we encounter on 3+ anyway so the rerolls to hit are not so great for us...actually i take that back, i have a pretty miserable record when it comes to dice rolling so i would welcome that.... Hope it's not out of order to discuss the actual potential rules...we can dream i think... I'm not a rule master nor do like number crunching, so I'll talk in general terms/ideas: How about some kind of ability to inflict morale tests to daemons - he is so pure, a bastion on the Emperor's light, so bright that he is the anathema of the Chaos Daemons (avatars, and that can be extended for synapse creatures for better point justification with a reasonable explanation) Or some ability to dispel Chaos powers, like aura of decay or such, or to grant such ability in a radius/area? Or grant him some exclusive chapter relics? He is the chaplain, the guardian of the everything sacred. Or some kind of boost to troops like an "Emperor's Visage" - the others around him in the heat of battle see him as the embodiement of the Emperor himself, fighting by their side :D In fact I'm not that worried by rules, I like the chaplain/librarian idea more for the fluff potential ;) (I'm a Crusades fanatic, so bear with me) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzudzilla Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I do like the idea of him being a kind of walking fighting sanctuary( the psychic power) . Daemons would be able to enter it, but their special abilities would have no effect inside the , let's say 12 inch bubble...that would mean no uberwarpnades for the daemonettes if they charged into difficult terrain and things like that, basically it would leave them bare as a statline...with the save intact of course... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 I do like the idea of him being a kind of walking fighting sanctuary( the psychic power) . That's why I think it would be easier to have such chaplains/librarian units as named special characters (or other types of GK heroes) instead of your average SM chaplains/librarian - the GKs are more powerful, and a simple version of those simply doesn't fit the bill IMO EDIT: I'm the typos king these days... :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzudzilla Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 On the other hand, how many named characters can you have for a single chapter? Smurfs get Papa smurf and three others, Blood Angels have got five...i'd say four would be the ideal number...Stern is obvious, even though i've actually used him only once i do like his fluff and quotes from the codex...I'm not sure i would want to see Alaric, i haven't read the books but from what i gather they 1, aren't very well written 2, don't really follow the fluff too much. I am willing to accept some writer's liberty but reading the quote in Grand Master's Tyrak sig always sends me into a blinding hot nerd rage...Don't tell me you can't write a good story while at the same remaining within the zone of what has been established already...Other writers do it all the time, they create stories set in what we call the " Real World"...and this " Real World" has a clear set of rules which these writers follow, partly because it enables the reader to connect with the story better... .end of rant. A Librarian character, Chaplain character, a GM, Stern...who else? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 i'd like to see an ability (or upgrade) that interferes with invunerable saves (re-roll? lower save? dare i suggest NONE?), maybe like new anointed weapon (but like mastercrafting, that is applied TO a weapon rather than be a weapon) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzudzilla Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I can't see why not...Messing around with people's invulnerable saves is kind of a GK trademark and also the only reason why i'm not scared of Harlequins anymore...good times... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'am not a GK player but what would you say about special ammo for standard GK units, similar to the Sterngaurd ammo thing but other effects. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 A Librarian character, Chaplain character, a GM, Stern...who else? An Apothecary? God forbid the immaculate GK geneseed to be touched by unholy chaos paws B) Jokes aside, those 4 seems ok for me already. Maybe more options depending on the new units that get added - as a lancer or a jump pack champion of some sort, for example. And outside the characters realm: how about some sort of juiced-up techmarines for those unique special edition hyper super power GK Land Raiders? Or other Mechanicus units to reflect their proximity to Mars/access to special armoury? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163405-gk-baseless-speculation-thread/#findComment-1920933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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