kanaellars Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Just a thought that has come into my head while reading the end of the new Horace Hersy short stories book. Before thier primarch, the World Eaters wore White and Blue and were known as the War Hounds. Who were we before Russ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Well, the World Eaters wore white and blue until after the heresy... And even then, I think they just stopped washing the gore off. As for renaming of Chapters, it was common. The Dark Angels were known as the First Legion, the Death Guard as the Dusk Raiders and the Black Legion went from Luna Wolves to Son's of Horus to Black Legion. I think a couple of others changed names as well. As for us, I don't think there is anything to suggest our name changed. Wolves seems to be a common theme. Also, who was Horace? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1922405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanaellars Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 Bah, you knew who I bloody well ment! Anyway, it just seems odd. Most of the other chapters completely changed thier names to suit thier primarchs. If our name didnt change, how did the emperor "guess" that Russ would have a wolf theme? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1922425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Maybe the elongated canines and extra hair growth was a good indication :). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1922446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 dont forget the fact russ was constantly weeing up trees and trying to lick his own balls... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1922471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanaellars Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 As I said though, the legion Before Russ. I have just been thinking about it. Space Wolves just seems very specific seeing as the Emperor did not know about Fenris or its culture at the time. Take the World Eaters. They were called the War Hounds. The names were nothing alike. It would just seem odd if the Emperor named us the Wolves and then "lucked" into Fenris. I am almost sure there was another name, I am just not sure if it has ever been given. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1922484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combat_Vet Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I can see your point, kanaellars. However, the Sons of Horus started out as the Luna Wolves. Most of the legions had a martial name (or a fearsome animal). At least one would have to coincide with thier primarch and it happens to be us. We won the war, or at least survived it with decent leadership. So, it stands to reason that we would not change our names. The ones that lost changed thier colors schemes and/or names. I know the Dark Angels didn't change after the heresy, but we really aren't sure whose side they were on in the war. That being said, I have never heard of us being anything else. Not even back in the old RT days. We have had a different homeworld, a different shade of grey armor, and Russ wasn't our primarch (long ago). But, we have always been the Space Wolves. Of course, I could be way wrong. Better days, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1922520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Actually nobody changed their scheme because they lost that I can think of. It's possible that the Space Wolves were something else before Leman Russ was found like the Dusk Raiders, War Hounds and First Legion and so forth but it's never been written about. The whole idea of Legions having different names before finding their Primarchs is rather new. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1922528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanaellars Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 But it makes sense. Each primarch would remake the Legion in his own image. I have to look at the last of the short stories in the HH book, I have never been a world eaters fan, but it is an amazing story, and it really shows that defining moment between when the legion was the XII, the War Hounds, who were terran and seeking thier Primarch, and the time when the found him, and found who they were, and became his World Eaters. I think it adds a lot of depth to thier character. The same with the First Legion becomeing the Dark Angels, or as stated the Dusk Raiders becoming the Luna Wolves when Horus was discovered. I am not talking about a name change during the Heresy. Im talking about a name change when we went from being a Primarchless Terran Legion, and when we discovered our gene-father, Russ. Oh, and 200Plus, the Sons of Horus started out as the Dusk Riders. Horus made them the Luna Wolves when he joined them, to fit with the most fearsome predetor on the world he grew up on. They then became the Sons of Horus when he was made Warmaster (and the Alpha Legion after he fell). I can understand that our of 20, 1 of them could have guessed right and not changed thier name. That was the Iron Warriors. But then again, the Legions could have ALL been Iron Warriors as far as that goes, lmao. I honestly HOPE that we were once something else, if we werent it shows lack of depth in our history. I think the moment the War Hounds became the World Eaters was a powerful one, and I want that for us, Oh, and anyone who hasnt read the short story HH book.... get it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1922840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I guess this can be simply solved. the Emperor named them Spacewolves, when Russ was introduced with his legion he though it to be a great name and so he kept it. (or maybe he didn't care much about the name.) At least he didn't change it to Sons of Russ or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1922898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Oh, and anyone who hasnt read the short story HH book.... get it! Got a link?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnarchX Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Meh. Lucky Brits, the book won't be out here until March 31 according to Amazon. Luckily I just finished Mechanicum so I am ready to go. :devil: On topic: Is it possible that there was no "Space Wolves" legion until Russ was found? I mean were the Dark Angels really a "legion" before the Emperor found The Lion? Perhaps with Russ the legion was formed from Russ and his tribesmen and then bolstered by troops from elsewhere in the Emperor's army until Russ could garner enough resources from Fenris. *shrug* Do we know anything about Russ before the Emperor found him? Thanks, Anarki Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanaellars Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 All of the Legions were formed on Terra before the Primarchs were found. They were formed from genetic samples of the Primarchs though, and that is how they were later "matched" to each other. As for the link.... Tales of Heresy http://www.blacklibrary.com/product.asp?pr...9&type=Book Amazing book. One story about the Emperors Custodes, one about the Wolves of Russ (a REALLY good one), one about the Dark Angels, a few others, and the final one, the story of how the World Eaters welcomed thier primarch. (WOW, best of book, even better than the Wolves story and Abnetts story) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Oh, and 200Plus, the Sons of Horus started out as the Dusk Riders. Horus made them the Luna Wolves when he joined them, to fit with the most fearsome predetor on the world he grew up on. They then became the Sons of Horus when he was made Warmaster (and the Alpha Legion after he fell). Woa there you've got that rather badly mixed up. The Dusk Raiders were the prior name of the Death Guard. The Luna Wolves had that name before and after Horus was found only changing to the Sons of Horus after he fell to chaos. The Alpha Legion is one of the 20 Legions, the Sons of Horus became the Black Legion after Abaddon destroyed Horus' body and took control of the surviving elements of the Legion. Anyway not all Legions necessarily needed a name change, I doubt the Imperial Fists changed their names, or the Emperor's Children when they found their Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'm not sure about the EC, I think they were renamed. Either way, as far as we know the Space Wolves have always been the Space Wolves. Prospero Burns may shed more light on this, we'll see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Oh, and 200Plus, the Sons of Horus started out as the Dusk Riders. Horus made them the Luna Wolves when he joined them, to fit with the most fearsome predetor on the world he grew up on. They then became the Sons of Horus when he was made Warmaster (and the Alpha Legion after he fell). Woa there you've got that rather badly mixed up. The Dusk Raiders were the prior name of the Death Guard. The Luna Wolves had that name before and after Horus was found only changing to the Sons of Horus after he fell to chaos. The Alpha Legion is one of the 20 Legions, the Sons of Horus became the Black Legion after Abaddon destroyed Horus' body and took control of the surviving elements of the Legion. Anyway not all Legions necessarily needed a name change, I doubt the Imperial Fists changed their names, or the Emperor's Children when they found their Primarchs. The Luna Wolves had bee renamed into the Sons of Horus after his victory in the Ullanor Crusade. They had been renamed when he became the Warmaster before he turned to chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Actually no according to the new Horus Heresy material the Emperor offered a name change to Horus after Ullanor but he refused. He only changed the name of the Sons of Horus after he fell to chaos, some time after taking on the role of the Warmaster and the Victory at Ullanor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Actually no according to the new Horus Heresy material the Emperor offered a name change to Horus after Ullanor but he refused. He only changed the name of the Sons of Horus after he fell to chaos, some time after taking on the role of the Warmaster and the Victory at Ullanor. Can you give me a source for that? I looked into the 2nd Ed C:CSM and the Index Astartes article about the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus/Black Legion and and that´s what i refer to. I would be interested to see your source? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Actually no according to the new Horus Heresy material the Emperor offered a name change to Horus after Ullanor but he refused. He only changed the name of the Sons of Horus after he fell to chaos, some time after taking on the role of the Warmaster and the Victory at Ullanor. Can you give me a source for that? I looked into the 2nd Ed C:CSM and the Index Astartes article about the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus/Black Legion and and that´s what i refer to. I would be interested to see your source? Well, I don't know whether this is considered "proper" canon, but the book "Horus Rising" places the name change between the campagin on Murder and the Campaign vs the Interex, prior to the events on Davin which is where the Warmaster fell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Can you give me a source for that? I looked into the 2nd Ed C:CSM and the Index Astartes article about the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus/Black Legion and and that´s what i refer to. I would be interested to see your source? Well I don't have time to dig through 3-4 books right now but it's in the new Horus Heresy Series. The first 4 books to be precise cover the events of that time around when Horus fell to Chaos and the Legion changed their name. Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxy in Flames follow Garviel Loken and the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, while Flight of the Eisenstein covers the Istvaan Campaign from the perspective of Nathanial Garro of the Death Guard. Well, I don't know whether this is considered "proper" canon, but the book "Horus Rising" places the name change between the campagin on Murder and the Campaign vs the Interex, prior to the events on Davin which is where the Warmaster fell. Actually if I recall correctly the name and color change happened just after Davin where the Warmaster fell, it was after he rose again from certain death newly annointed by Chaos that he ordered the Legion's name changed, and this was shortly before the Istvaan Campaign. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirnir Ragefang Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well, maybe the Legion was named Space Wolves and the Emperor just gave Russ command of them in favor of another Legion, because the name was so fitting. EDIT: Duh! Just realized his doesn't make any sense because the Legion was created from Russ's geneseed. Or wasn't it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ah, ok. You´re reffering to the novels, while i was reffering to older sources. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well, maybe the Legion was named Space Wolves and the Emperor just gave Russ command of them in favor of another Legion, because the name was so fitting. EDIT: Duh! Just realized his doesn't make any sense because the Legion was created from Russ's geneseed. Or wasn't it? Yes, each Legions was created from the geneseed of their Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanaellars Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Oh, and 200Plus, the Sons of Horus started out as the Dusk Riders. Horus made them the Luna Wolves when he joined them, to fit with the most fearsome predetor on the world he grew up on. They then became the Sons of Horus when he was made Warmaster (and the Alpha Legion after he fell). Woa there you've got that rather badly mixed up. The Dusk Raiders were the prior name of the Death Guard. The Luna Wolves had that name before and after Horus was found only changing to the Sons of Horus after he fell to chaos. The Alpha Legion is one of the 20 Legions, the Sons of Horus became the Black Legion after Abaddon destroyed Horus' body and took control of the surviving elements of the Legion. Anyway not all Legions necessarily needed a name change, I doubt the Imperial Fists changed their names, or the Emperor's Children when they found their Primarchs. By Russ! I just re-read my post and you are completely right.... I agree with you and I dont know how my fingers wrote all of that!!! Lack of sleep strikes again. I am so sorry Edit: removed a name that might offend people used in this contend Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloSZ Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I have a feeling we would have been called the sixth legion prior to being re-united with Russ. I recall a passage about the Big E meeting Russ on Fenris, (actually I think most descriptions of legions finding their Primarchs, with differences ofcourse, were described this way) which said "...power fist to face ... welcomed him as a son, and gave him command of the sixth legion..." Then almighty Russ said - "Bah, six is boring, and I always wanted to be able to say 'Smithers, unleash the wolves' " +edit: Six? Seven? Who said that.... I was.... testing you... yeah... You win a cookie.+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163558-who-were-we/#findComment-1923785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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