Choosing a 2nd HQ

[greymeister]

Hey everyone, I'm a big fan of the Killhammer series and after applying most of the principles I could to my SM list I have found that while I'm not overwhelming anyone my list has been very competitive regardless of what army it goes against. Here's a basic summary of my list with extra points being experimented with on a weekly basis:

 

Bike Captain
Tac Squad x2 in Rhinos w/ Flamer, ML, PF
Assault Terminators x6
Land Speeder w/ MM
Bike Squad x6 w MGx2, PF
Vindicator
LRC

 

 

Okay so that finally brings me to my question :) I usually play 1750 and I'm looking at new options for the list @ 1750 or if I expand it to 2000. One of them would be to add Lysander to that terminator squad. I like stubborn and I like his staying power, but what I don't like his both his points cost and that he has opposing abilities (bolter drill not helpful in assault squad but he's not shooty himself). Then there is Pedro Kantor (or Captain Cortez mk2 as I will refer to him :) ) Making Sternguard scoring made me all happy on the inside because it would be like having my Thousand Sons in my Marine army...except that they are expensive and not nearly as resiliant as the rubrics. I have also considered LVLing my bike captain to Khan but I don't think his abilities really justify his points. Then there's the generic HQs which I feel are sort of crappy options in this edition's codex.

 

I was just curious what other considerations people have made towards adding a 2nd HQ.

[Captain of The Inceptors]

What kind of strategy/tactics do you use?

 

I'm in the same situation although I'm just looking for something new in my 1500pts army.

 

I was thinking of using one of the other chars, a librarian would be cool (especially as a gate transporter) if you wanted to move around quickly, but then also you have the option of a chaplain for extra hits in CC. Pedro also helps (I use him as my single HQ at the moment) with his +1 attack, and he can really get stuck in with the rank and file marines.

 

I have been using Pedro with a 5 man Sternguard squad, people attempt to close in on it thinking that they can get the charge, but I usually find a way to deny them and charge back, with Pedro they get 4 attacks on the charge which is usually unexpected and can turn the game.

Although I have been thinking of using a squad of Grey Knights with Pedro as their weapons match-up well and they can certainly make good use of the +1 attack (nemisis force weapons are awesome! attacking at WS5 S6! and the Justicar's is a powersword too!)

 

What about the Master of the forge with a conversion beamer and bike?

[Warp Angel]

Finish up the bike squad first.

 

Then, if you aren't going for Pedro or Lysander, think about a chaplain on a bike. He makes the bike squad that much more crushing than it already is, can detatch to go help out the assault termies in a later phase, and, in general becomes a serious problem for your opponent... oh and he can make a combat squadded bike detatchment lethal too.

 

I wonder if I should consider a librarian on a bike... don't have one modeled....

 

On the whole I don't see any reason NOT to put custom characters on bikes or in terminator armor in most situations. The added survivability is wornderful (either better armor and/or better toughness - terminator armor is the only way Libby's get an invuln), and that helps when our characters are distinctly mediocre when stock.

[greymeister]

Finish up the bike squad first.

 

By this, I assume you mean go full squad? I was wondering about the diminishing returns of bike squad size, especially considering rough terrain. Obviously it raises their survivability in other situations. I guess with combat squads a 10 man unit can split if the table is covered with rough terrain. Definitely will bring their target priority up several notches with 10 men though :)

 

Then, if you aren't going for Pedro or Lysander, think about a chaplain on a bike. He makes the bike squad that much more crushing than it already is, can detatch to go help out the assault termies in a later phase, and, in general becomes a serious problem for your opponent... oh and he can make a combat squadded bike detatchment lethal too.

 

I've always liked that bald chaplain on a bike model...I may have to pick him up this afternoon and get him ready for Sunday's game. ;)

 

I wonder if I should consider a librarian on a bike... don't have one modeled....

 

On the whole I don't see any reason NOT to put custom characters on bikes or in terminator armor in most situations. The added survivability is wornderful (either better armor and/or better toughness - terminator armor is the only way Libby's get an invuln), and that helps when our characters are distinctly mediocre when stock.

 

Hmm, I still haven't tried out the 2-wound characters yet for Marines. Chaplain on a bike will be my first test with them. Librarians seem like they would be best put to use in a squad that does medium (18"-24") shooting and Sternguard, Bikes, or Tacticals seem to fill that role for SM. There are several better melee options for SM HQ choices, I guess maybe if you are getting roasted by Farseers that would give the librarian some more utility.

 

The one thing about PA characters that has definitely changed for me in this edition is that characters will NEVER be riding with tactical squads...there just isn't any room. So they will either be in a LR or a bike or assault squad which also determines their outfit most of the time.

[Warp Angel]

I'd never go with bikes as troops in less than a full squad. The OPTION to combat squad is worth it's weight in gold. And the ablative wounds to protect your melta/melta/melta setup is invaluable. Because bikes are ALWAYS a high priority target if you have an opponent who is paying attention. It allows your D2 to be a lot higher in addition to making you much more potent in the assault after you've rapid fired your twin linked bolters.

 

Against MEQ:

 

Twin Linked Bolter to hit: 2/3 (6/9) chance of hitting the first time + (2/3*1/3) 2/9 hitting with the reroll = 7/9 chances to hit, or 14/9 with two shots.

To Wound: 14/9 hits times 1/2 wounds = 14/18 (7/9 wounds)

Failed Save: 7/9*1/3 = 7/27, or roughly 1 out of 4 bikes killing a Marine. In a full squad (including attack bike) you've got 6 of those. Which gives you an extra 1.5 marines dead over time with a full squad of shooting. Every bike you take away reduces your kill odds by 25%.

 

Assume that 2 out of your 3 special weapons hits and kills. You'll average 3-4 dead marines just from shooting with a full squad. Reducing the number of basic bikes doesn't affect the numbers very quickly. But as soon as you loose one special weapon, you're losing an average of 2/3 of a dead Marine... effectiveness drops dramatically.

 

So filling out the squad should average you 1 more kill each round of shooting in addition to preserving the 2-3 that the 6 man squad is capable of for longer.

 

Then you get to the follow-on assault where numbers continue to make a huge difference.

 

You're striking simultaneously (MEQ).

 

17 basic attacks, 3 PF from sarge for a full squad. Every model you're missing reduceds the number of attacks by two. Assume that only 3 died in shooting before you charged.

17/2 + 3/2 hit. 17/4 + 15/12 wound. 17/12 + 5/4 kill. So you're killing roughly 2-3 on the charge.

6+2 attacks back. 3 + 1/2 hit. 1 + 5/6 wound. 1/3 + 5/6 kill. You might take two wounds back if you're unlucky.

 

You're going to likely win combat. Your opponent is down to 5-7 dead from his orginal 10, you're only down 2, possibly none because you sloughed one onto the attack bike. Your special weapons and sarge are safe in all but the worst case scenarios.

 

If you add a character (especially a master with a relic blade and hellfire rounds/aux grenade launcher) to the list, you'll completely wipe a standard tactical squad EVERY TURN more often than not. Lose the extra shots and the ablative wounds and the liklihood of a wipe goes down. Start big and you preserve both the K1 and D2 for longer, maintaning a higher Killhammer rating than you would otherwise. Which means you can "wash, rinse, repeat" more times in a game.

 

Just my opinion, backed up by some sketchy mathhammer, fitted into the Killhammer framework.

 

Your results may differ. Consult a physician before beginning any killhammer program. No warranty offered or implied. ;)

[Imperator Mos]

Warp Angel said everything I was going to, and then some.