Halp!

[Seahawk]

So somehow, every single person I've ever played (all over the midwest) has gotten this example wrong:

 

Unit A is locked in combat with Unit B. Unit X charges Unit A. Who can Unit A direct attacks against?

 

Their answer has always been "only attack unit B" but this is clearly wrong, and those extra BS rules GW presented on pg 41 are very misleading to the skim-reader. What do those rules mean? You may attack any unit you are engaged with, following the rules for combat, thus Unit A can direct attacks against Unit B or Unit X. Easy enough...

 

Now, the BRB FAQ added a third bullet to that mess:

"Models that at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) were engaged with more than one enemy unit, but were in base contact with just one of the enemy units, must attack that unit."

 

Please dear frater, I may be tired or something, but what does that even mean? If I'm engaged with two enemy units (thus in base contact by definition) I can only attack one? Even though the previous (second) bullet says:

""Models that were engaged with more than one enemy unit at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) may split their attacks freely between those units."

 

I shouldn't be surprised by the idiocy of the errata bit, but did GW just tell me I can split my attacks but only against one unit, thus not being able to split my attacks? Either that, or they told me that my models can be in base contact with two units at the same time only count as being in contact with one of them...errr... :blink:

[eyescrossed]

:blink: I'm confused...

[Hellios]

So somehow, every single person I've ever played (all over the midwest) has gotten this example wrong:

 

Unit A is locked in combat with Unit B. Unit X charges Unit A. Who can Unit A direct attacks against?

 

Their answer has always been "only attack unit B" but this is clearly wrong, and those extra BS rules GW presented on pg 41 are very misleading to the skim-reader. What do those rules mean? You may attack any unit you are engaged with, following the rules for combat, thus Unit A can direct attacks against Unit B or Unit X. Easy enough...

 

Now, the BRB FAQ added a third bullet to that mess:

"Models that at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) were engaged with more than one enemy unit, but were in base contact with just one of the enemy units, must attack that unit."

 

Please dear frater, I may be tired or something, but what does that even mean? If I'm engaged with two enemy units (thus in base contact by definition) I can only attack one? Even though the previous (second) bullet says:

""Models that were engaged with more than one enemy unit at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) may split their attacks freely between those units."

 

I shouldn't be surprised by the idiocy of the errata bit, but did GW just tell me I can split my attacks but only against one unit, thus not being able to split my attacks? Either that, or they told me that my models can be in base contact with two units at the same time only count as being in contact with one of them...errr... :blink:

 

 

I may be wrong but doesn't it say somewhere that models have to attack a unit they are in base to base with first (presuming with only one) however if unit has a number of models in base to base with enemy models from multiple units (for simplicities sake each model is in contact with members from only one enemy squad) then those in base to base would have to attack different units.

 

To take this further I would then put forward that any models not in base to base "ranking up" or in base to base with two or more enemy units may choose which unit they attack.

[Khorneeq]

Hello,

I think that I know the answer ;)

Model is considered engaged if it is in base contact with enemy or is within 2 inches of friendly model in base contact (BBB, pg.35)

I'll add a picture to show an example:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5374/engaged.png

Green model marked with X is engaged with blue unit (BtB) and red unit (within 2 inches of friendly model in BtB) but it can direct it's attacks only against blue unit with which it is in base contact.

Hope it is clear now.

[Reglor]

Now, the BRB FAQ added a third bullet to that mess:

"Models that at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) were engaged with more than one enemy unit, but were in base contact with just one of the enemy units, must attack that unit."

 

Please dear frater, I may be tired or something, but what does that even mean? If I'm engaged with two enemy units (thus in base contact by definition) I can only attack one? Even though the previous (second) bullet says:

""Models that were engaged with more than one enemy unit at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) may split their attacks freely between those units."

 

I shouldn't be surprised by the idiocy of the errata bit, but did GW just tell me I can split my attacks but only against one unit, thus not being able to split my attacks? Either that, or they told me that my models can be in base contact with two units at the same time only count as being in contact with one of them...errr...

 

One problem is that you are forgeting that models do not have to be in base to base contact (BtB) to be engaged. There are two conditions you must check for to see if a model is engaged. First if a model is in BtB with an enemy unit it is engaged. Second, if a model is within 2" of a model of its own unit that is in BtB than it is engaged.

 

So we now have some engaged models in BtB and some that aren't. The models in BtB can only direct their attacks at enemy units that they are in BtB with. If they are in BtB with more than one enemy unit, they can choose which unit their attacks are directed at. The engaged models that are not in BtB with an enemy can direct their attacks at any enemy unit if they are within 2" of a model of their unit that is in BtB. If they are within 2" of models of their unit the are engaged with more than one unit (or two diffrent squad mates that are each in BtB with a diffrent enemy unit) they can then choose with enemy unit their attacks will hit.

[Legatus]

Their answer has always been "only attack unit B" but this is clearly wrong, and those extra BS rules GW presented on pg 41 are very misleading to the skim-reader. What do those rules mean? You may attack any unit you are engaged with, following the rules for combat, thus Unit A can direct attacks against Unit B or Unit X. Easy enough...

 

Now, the BRB FAQ added a third bullet to that mess:

"Models that at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) were engaged with more than one enemy unit, but were in base contact with just one of the enemy units, must attack that unit."

The situation may become clearer to you if you read the rules for "Who can fight?" on page 35. According to those rules, you check which models are engaged and can make attacks at the beginning of the fight. But during the fight, models are killed and removed, so the situation might change before models with lower initiative get to make attacks. But according to those rules, if they were allowed to make attacks at the beginning of the fight, then they can still make their attacks, even if they don't have enemy models in BtB or in BtB with friendly models within 2" anymore when it is their turn.

 

Now to the confusing rules from page 41:

 

"Models that were engaged with just one of the enemy units at teh beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) must attack that unit."

 

Just as described on page 35, you check which model can attack, and which unit it can attack, at the beginning of the combat. Even if the circumstances should change, a model that was only able to attack one of teh units at the beginning canonly attack that unit. Though off the top of my head I cannot think of a situation where during a combat two units would move loser together.

 

"Models that at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) were engaged with more than one enemy unit, but were in base contact with just one of the enemy units, must attack that unit."

 

This is basically teh same, but it adds the information that a model must attack enemy units it has BtB with first, and could not direct it's attacks against an enemy unit that was just within BtB with a friendly model. However, the enemy model it has BtB with may be killed during the combat, but before the model itself got to make attacks. If that was teh case the model would still have to attack that enemy unit it previously had BtB with, as determined at the beginning of the combat phase, and could not then decide to make attacks against the other enemy unit.

[Seahawk]

I didn't forget it at all, though I may have been thinking wacky.

 

@ Helios: No, you can attack anybody you are in BTB (or engaged) with; it doesn't matter when they arrived during the combat, according to the BRB.

 

@ Khorneeq: Good thinking, but then model X is not engaged with the red squad because they are only touching the blue squad, right? Or is that where I'm getting hung up on semantics...

 

@ Legatus: Ahhh, there we go! I read it all and knew it fine, it's just I didn't know where GW could be coming up with these rules. Now I realize that they came up with rules explanations before it became an issue in games (for once!). If in Khorneeq's example, if the blue dudes were all killed, then model X cannot attack because it was engaged with the blues, not the reds. Now it makes sense.

[Culsandar]

Two points that make this so much easier.

 

"Models that at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) were engaged with more than one enemy unit, but were in base contact with just one of the enemy units, must attack that unit."

1.) BEGINNING OF COMBAT (BEFORE ANY MODEL ATTACKED) =/= BEGINNING OF ASSAULT (WHEN GUYS ACTUALLY MOVE INTO BASE TO BASE).

 

""Models that were engaged with more than one enemy unit at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) may split their attacks freely between those units."

 

The above point simplifies this.

 

2.) In the simplest terms, this rule means that you must attack models in a squad that are in base to base (whether they are from the old or new squad), before you can direct your attacks to models within 2" (whether they are from the old or new squad).

 

Help?

[drakkhenkc]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has had this misconception - like Seahawk, I adamantly insisted that new units joining a combat could not have attacks allocated against them. Boy did I feel dumb after a tournament when all the regulars looked at me funny.

[Khorneeq]

Getting back to rules on page 35 model X is engaged with both the red and the blue unit.

Units that have one or more model in base contact with enemies are said to be "locked in combat". Within such units, the following models are said to be "engaged" and must fight:

- Models in base contact with any enemy models.

- Models within 2" of at least one model in their unit that is in base contact with any enemy models.

If model is engaged with one unit by base contact it takes precedence over being within 2 inches of friendly model in base contact and it can fight only against base contact enemy.

I think that is the simplest way in which it can be explained.

[Morticon]

Khorneeq has it right Seahawk.

In his diagram X is very definitely engaged with blue and red.

 

That third bullet is just to make a distinction between (as said) engaged and base to base.