Vxx Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Would there be much of a difference between using a bolt pistol or bolter with a powerfist in a gray hunters squad? Like would I be able to get an extra attack for charging if I had a bolt piston even when the squad is using True Grit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 See the new rules for special CCW in the rulebook. With a single PF and a BP you don´t get the +1A for a second CCW. So the simple answer is take the bolter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1925677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Because on the charge or countercharge you can always not use true grit *it says so in the rule* and get the +1 A bonus... so really you lose nothing by getting the bolter save perhaps one shot before the assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1925708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Fang Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Well with a single Powerfist you can't gain an extra attack for 2nd CCW (unless its a powerfist) With a bolter and true grit you don't gain the extra attack for charging because "Its to unwieldy" So surely its better to take the bolt pistol. Ether way you don't get the extra attack for 2nd CCW but with bolt pistol at least you get the extra attack for charge/counter charge. True grit applies to "a model using their bolter" (SW Codex) not the whole squad Long Fang Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1925826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Bolter - can't shoot if you want to assault Bolt Pistol - no extra CCW attack when paired with a Power Fist - HOWEVER, I've read/heard/sensed and otherwised picked up that you can roll the Power Fist hit and then roll the Bolt Pistol hit...anyone else heard this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1925865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Fang Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 You just gain an additional PF attack on charge/counter charge with Bolt pistol. As the bolt pistol doesn't us the true grit rules you get the standard +1 for charging, but not for 2 ccw's. Long Fang Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1925871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Bolter - can't shoot if you want to assaultBolt Pistol - no extra CCW attack when paired with a Power Fist - HOWEVER, I've read/heard/sensed and otherwised picked up that you can roll the Power Fist hit and then roll the Bolt Pistol hit...anyone else heard this? Nope, it's all or nothing. One particularly messed up interpretation I argued about on Warseer was that you could "choose not to use your bolter", circumvent the True Grit rule and get the extra attack on the charge. This revolved around dubious distinctions concerning the word "may" .... and people wonder why I like the B&C! <_< As to the OP ... it depends on the situation. If it's a squad that's going to be assaulting alot, get the pistol, that way you get the charge bonus. If it's an "insurance" power fist in a mostly static bolter squad ... get the bolter. The extra attack per game won't make a difference ... but a few extra bolter shots just might. Frankly, it's for this reason that I went to power weapons in my bolter squads ... cheaper and you get the extra attack from True Grit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1925877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Well with a single Powerfist you can't gain an extra attack for 2nd CCW (unless its a powerfist)With a bolter and true grit you don't gain the extra attack for charging because "Its to unwieldy" So surely its better to take the bolt pistol. Ether way you don't get the extra attack for 2nd CCW but with bolt pistol at least you get the extra attack for charge/counter charge. True grit applies to "a model using their bolter" (SW Codex) not the whole squad Long Fang It also says "May" in the description... so you can get the bonuses for charging and countercharging to your hearts content with the powerfist model even if the entirety of the rest of the squad and he himself have bolters on the countercharge. He just doesnt use the darn thing and gets the bonus. Simple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1925892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAVAAR Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Take the bolter. BP - you get one shot st4 AP5 and 2 PF attacks on the charge. BG - you get one shot 12-24" as they come to you, 2 at 12" should you choose to let them hit you and counter-charge, or none and charge them. Regardless of what your shooting looks like your PF now swings with 2 on the charge/counter and still 2 every following combat because of True Grit. Conclusion: 1 point is cheap when you consider how the above can give you more flexibility in your overall tactics and also how you run each individual squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1926033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vxx Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Thanks for the info guys. Since there seems to be differing opinions on the subject I will run a pistol on him to make sure I get that extra attack on the charge/counter attack without any arguments. I like having that powerfist in my squads for insurance. After a few games I played yesterday it worked well with my strategy but since I was running a bolter on him initially, I could have used an extra attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1926056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 All I can say is there shouldnt be any doubt... read the rule in our codex... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1926504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacsoy Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 BG - you get one shot 12-24" as they come to you, 2 at 12" should you choose to let them hit you and counter-charge, or none and charge them. Regardless of what your shooting looks like your PF now swings with 2 on the charge/counter and still 2 every following combat because of True Grit. Mmm... I don't think that is true. While you always get +1 attack on the charge/counter-charge (just don't use the bolter that round, the rest of the pack will have the same number of attacks, either way), you only get 1 attack with a power fist in the following rounds. Remember you'd need a second PF to get the '+1A for second CCW' bonus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1926600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedark Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Rules aside, I generally just include a PF on WGPLs and arm them with a BP If I dont have the points for a Pack leader or the pack is 6 wolf strong I go with PF and Bolter. D. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1926735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Captin Torodin Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 do u have the option for a storm bolter? as the space wolves are a mainly assault style army it seems odd to give it a bolter if its range is going to be 12" cos of movement and then stop u from shooting before combat? where as a storm bolter will let you shoot and then assault whilst putting out 2 shots every time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1926748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedark Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 We have no option for the stormbolters on GHunters/Pack Leaders - which is a shame as it would be a good choice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1926757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Not true... we just have to put our wolf gaurd pack leaders in terminator armor to get them :). But really we are an assault oriented army, but we still need objective grabbers. That being said if your sitting on a mound looking at your watch you need a rifle to split open orks with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1926890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedark Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Terminators accepted but the discussion to me seemed more relating to non TDA hunters and WGPL, but of you are right about WGPL in TDA. I'll just about give you that one, lol! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1926993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Sorry, I bring it up only because I have two of them... with lightning claw and powerfist and then a stormbolter each... in TDA. It seems a great way to add some survivability to a whole squad- for 5 pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1927576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedark Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 No problem, built and painted a WGPL with Claw and Combi Plasma for that very purpose, he has yet to see combat as I run rhino's only at the moment and other than him footslogging with a GH Pack he has no place in my current force. Do you use them much, I always had issue witht he squad not being able to make a sweeping advance if you have a Termie in it, I take it's from a drop pod? @GW new rule for forthcoming wolf codex: WGPL in TDA may use rhino for transport purpose when leading a GH Pack (counting as two models) D. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1927968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondlir the Wandbearer Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The only place I really use powerfists anymore is with Wolf Guard and Blood Claws. For grey hunters I use powerweapon & bolt pistol, and bolter (or a special weapon) for the rest of the squad. Best of both worlds, really - when you're assaulted, you roll for counterassault, and the models without a bolter get an extra attack, while the ones with bolter just get 2 attacks whichever. For the Wolf Guard, he gets neither pistol nor bolter - he gets a storm shield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1928091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vxx Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 I equip my WGBL with a Storm Shield and Frost Blade. So far they have worked out pretty well. I tend to keep on the balanced side so I am including a PF and PW in each of my BC and GH squads. I played a few games this weekend and both weapons found purpose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1928135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I agree, GH powerfists are not a waste. It is one less attack, but its mostly there for insurance. I prefer my WGPLs in TDA or with a powerweapon... adds alot of survivability to a squad or alot of attacks. Powerfist is nice, but *shrugs* I just prefer it GH style. Not to mention I dont take alot of pack leaders... but I find myself uncomfortable without a smattering of fists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1928406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Fang Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 WGPL with twin powerfists ftw baby. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1928717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 WGPL with twin powerfists ftw baby. Not for us. Our Armory says we can't choose the same item twice, so there's no way in our current Codex that we can have 2 Power Fists or 2 Thunder Hammers on a single model, with the Iron Priest being the single exception to the no 2 T-Hammer rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1928799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacsoy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Not for us. Our Armory says we can't choose the same item twice, so there's no way in our current Codex that we can have 2 Power Fists or 2 Thunder Hammers on a single model, with the Iron Priest being the single exception to the no 2 T-Hammer rule. Wow, I think you are right... and that just ruined my day. I have this too-cool-to-be-true Wolf Guard/Wolf Lord model with twin power fists and now I can't use him anymore :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163821-powerfist-with-bolter-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-1928808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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