Dusktiger Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 ok, so i've been looking through the 5th edition codex, but i cant seem to find the costs of the heavy weapon choices for a devastator squad. I have a copy of the 4th edition that marks the numbers down, and i have a copy of army builder on my pc using the 5th edition rule files that someone posted for it, but neither one agrees on the costs for the heavy weapons. i see that on tactical squads a plasma cannon is 5pts, and a lascannon is 10, and the rest are free. now, i would like to assume that the numbers would be similar in a devastator squad, cause otherwise a bunch of big numbers per weapon is a BIG punch to the gut for point consumption. now this is where army builder and the 4th edition codex differ, (since i cant find numbers anywhere for 5th edition, thus why im asking which ones i follow) EDIT - point costs are not allowed to be shown. Enough information is already given to show your problem. So, what numbers do i use if i wanna build a devastator squad? cause from the looks of the numbers, if devastators use different costs than tactical squads, maybe im better off putting Lascannons on tactical squads to save on costs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 ok, so i've been looking through the 5th edition codex, but i cant seem to find the costs of the heavy weapon choices for a devastator squad. Have you tried page 142? The one with the devastator squad? Or maybe you just have a really weird misprint codex... :b Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1926193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 1. Do not use an older codex to tell you the cost of somehting from a current codex. Things change, prices drop or increase. They will not, absolutely, be the same. 2. Stop using army builder! Third party companies are not a substitute for the coded/rulebook. Only the rulebook and codex will tell you what is legal and how much it costs. Third party programs *will* be wrong as often as they aren't. That said, Legatus has it.. It's in the current codex, in the back, with the rest of the army list, on the same page, in the same entry as the devestator squad. And only those points are what they pay. Tacticals or other squads/armies pay differently to keep a balance, and fluff-wise, due to the availablility to those other squads/armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1926331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I'll reiterate...NEVER use armybuilder, as it is always wrong. And yes, it's in the codex, devastator squad section :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1926359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Tac squads require a full 10 marines before they can get heavy/special weapons, so they were given a discount. Dev squads do not, use the points cost of heavy weapons from the devistators entry in the 5th edition marine codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1926519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusktiger Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 *facepalms* forgot to look in the far back. i just thumbed through to the dev squad description. yea i see the costs now. but fyi, army builder isn't an evil program ya know. it just uses an info file filled with the information for each squad typed in by someone else who has the codex. and since i know how to edit the files, i can just change it whenever i see something that's not the same in the codex. it's helpful for making up list variations without having to waste a bunch of paper and ink/lead. im being eco-friendly, :P from the looks of things the costs army builder had for the 5th edition files were right then. good enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1926582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praeger Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 For the record - army builder and other such programs (including the GW ones) are there for help making army lists - NOT to be used as a subsitute for the rules and should ALWAYS be double checked by hand before used. I remeber back in 4th edition for a very long time army builder was 20pts off on the cost of a landspeeder with melta, GW's program was 10pts off and another excel version was 15pts off - trying using that excuse at a tournament and see what happens :whistling: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1926624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusktiger Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 yea, that's why i've been going through the files the last week to find all the bugs in it. did you know that apparently, according to the one that made the original files, a company champion is able to hold a combat shield, chainsword, power sword, power weapon, and bolt pistol all at the same time? sounds like a possessed marine when i try to picture that. and your right Praeger, its not a substitute, its just for tinkering with your list to save on paper that would be wasted doing the same thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1926819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'll reiterate...NEVER use armybuilder, as it is always wrong. And yes, it's in the codex, devastator squad section :D I strongly disagree. Seahawk is way wrong. Army Builder is an excellent program and whenever a mistake is found, it is fixed quickly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1927005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstaff Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'll reiterate...NEVER use armybuilder, as it is always wrong. And yes, it's in the codex, devastator squad section :D I strongly disagree. Seahawk is way wrong. Army Builder is an excellent program and whenever a mistake is found, it is fixed quickly. Just goes to show, mods are just as likely to be wrong as Armybuilder is. (although there have been occasional persistent errors, but like Praeger said, it's an aid, not a rule stand-in). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1927021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imriel Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Tac squads require a full 10 marines before they can get heavy/special weapons, so they were given a discount. Tac squads were given a discount long before a full squad was required, GW's reasoning was that a heavy weapon in a squad of heavy weapons is more effective then the same heavy weapon as the only heavy weapon in the squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1927049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'll reiterate...NEVER use armybuilder, as it is always wrong. And yes, it's in the codex, devastator squad section :) I strongly disagree. Seahawk is way wrong. Army Builder is an excellent program and whenever a mistake is found, it is fixed quickly. Just goes to show, mods are just as likely to be wrong as Armybuilder is. ;) (although there have been occasional persistent errors, but like Praeger said, it's an aid, not a rule stand-in). I certainly agree. Army Builder is not a substitute for codexes. When AB comes up, there is always a few people yelling about it being full of mistakes. In those situations I usually ask them about what those mistakes are. Not to show them off as being wrong, but rather to find any errors and subsequently have them corrected. I find that when I ask for specifics the complaining voices usually fall silent. So.....If you have found any mistakes in AB, please PM me (so as not to derail this thread further) and I'll do the immensely hard work of reporting any errors to the ab40k file-maintainers instead of just whining about them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1927221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Seahawk is way wrong. Just goes to show, mods are just as likely to be wrong as Armybuilder is. :) That's not being wrong. It's called an opinion. Many of us prefer *not* to use, nor do we trust, things like AB simply because it is wrong just as often as it isn't. Too much work envolved, and too much confusion, when the books we all should be using have the 100% accurate information that we need. It saves us the time and headache. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1927233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstaff Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Heh, nope, not an opinion, he's just flat out wrong, if you read what he actually said. ;) As is your statement that it's wrong just as often as it isn't, but Steelmage is making sure any issues that actually exist will be addressed. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1927281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hm. 2/3 of games I play against people who use only armybuilder have a rules argument because it gave them the wrong rules or statline, especially for WHFB armies. They were very common then. Now, everyone I play also has the codex and so they know the mistakes in the programs. I suppose I have a biased opinion, but hey the truth hurts. Well, when it was true at least ^_^. I suppose those in charge are a bit more on the ball now, so kudos! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1927432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Heh, nope, not an opinion, he's just flat out wrong, if you read what he actually said. ^_^ As is your statement that it's wrong just as often as it isn't, but Steelmage is making sure any issues that actually exist will be addressed. :lol: Might be an opinion that's off, currently, if they've been more on the ball than they used to be. But it's still an opinion, formed on the track record AB's had since they first started. They *have* been wrong just as often as they've been right. (and many people, besides us, still find that they are, in other areas as well) That someone has now, or recently, gotten on the ball and started to issue out corrections to the things that are and have been wrong, doesn't change the fact that they have been wrong as often, nor does it change our statements from being opinions. (given that the question has been answered, and this is now leaning heavily towards general discussion -nevermind the putting down of other people's opinions, based on other opinions- It may be time this thread is closed) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1927477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 If you want a discussion on the viability of AB then please do it in Amicus. The OPs original question has been answered as far as I can see – by using the correct base source for all army list building – the relevant Codex and at the relevant page. So before this goes any further... but PM an OR Mod of you feel you need to add anything to the original question. Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/163865-trouble-determining-weapon-point-costs-for-davastator-squads/#findComment-1927487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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