terminatorAM Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Ive recently been loosing or tieing most of my games against this one Eldar player at 2000pnts, he uses mostly all aspect warriors many footsloging as well as a suped-up falcon full of fire dragons his HQ is Asurmen and a farseer on jet bike. I usually play a rhino rush kind of list w/ 4 tact squads, 1 assault squad, and usually terminators and 1 or 2 dreadnoughts plus some armor thrown in like vindicators or LRC. The thing is I need an edge cause i havent been winning w/ the new codex, Im not sure if its the units im using or the strategy im employing but i need your guy's help. What is the best way to fight an Eldar army and what units work best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddlecakes Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 idk if rhino rush would but my bike list DESTROYS them ive played mech and normal crushed both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Proteus Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I don't know of a single type of list that can universally crush Eldar. This is heresy, I know, but the Eldar list is just about as customizable as our SM list is. The major difference is their speciality, and our general versatility. A few things to keep in mind. 1. The Eldar have slightly better initiative than the majority of the marine units they'll be fighting in close combat. Resilient as marines are, they can still be broken to splinters by a quicker army at times. Banshees and Scorpions in close combat can be average or butcher a unit depending on the circumstances. 2. Eldar anti-tank units are EXCEPTIONALLY good against weaker armored targets like rhinos and razorbacks. Get them within 18" of fire dragons, or around a number of bright lance armed war walkers or guardians, and your infantry will be slogging it. 3. The Eldar's majority strength and toughness are 3. But then you ask, "Proteus, what does this mean?" Well, since you ask, I'll tell you! 1. Close combat is good if you prepare well for it against Eldar, but not if you just run right in. Take a unit of Scorpions. Lets say your going to run in a tactical squad against a unit of 8 scorpions. There is some chance that your marines will survive a protracted combat here, but It will take more than one turn, most likely more than two, and you aren't guaranteed to win here. Soften that same unit of scorpions up with some firepower from devastators, land speeder squadrons or sniper rifles, and your chances increase dramatically. In other words, don't try to win assaults meat-grinder style. 2. If you take a rhino rush army, that means you depend on having your infantry close. Eldar can blast armor like few other armies can, leaving your units slowed at least, or slowed, diced up and even 'pinned' (GtG) at worst. This means that instead of getting in close, your units will sit in front of his guns for a turn, ripe to be shot, charged, and destroyed. 3. This is the one thing that universally helps you out. A marines toughness and strength of 4 means that against almost all of his units, in close combat, you have better survivability. Attrition is a game best played by marines due to their stats. Eldar simply cant afford to play your game, and you shouldn't play theirs. Now, to get to your question directly, it sounds almost as if you play an army focused on assault primarily, via transports, but without much of a firebase. Vindicators, I'd keep, just be careful to avoid his FD's. Dreads arent bad, especially with AC's, but I might only take one of those in favor of infantry. Devastators will wreck eldar, even 4 HB's will be a major pain to them, basically taking out one unit a turn most of the time. Predators with heavy bolters would be a close second. You might also consider having a few of your tactical squads run up, instead of a complete spearhead attack. This allows you some extra firepower close in if its needed, proabably to soften up units. How to handle Asurmen, well, there I cant be too much help. I never used him(Always Fuegan) and never fought against him. Proabably shoot the heck out of him and/or his unit and try to make him have to run to get at your units. Few questions about your army now. 1. Assault squad-ten guys? if not it should be. 2. What kind of Termi's do you use? Are they in the LRC? Hope that helps, I'll check back later -P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Against Asurmen? Its simple... dont use characters. He gets around instant death RAW... but still can take out your HQ in one hit. WS 7 means hell hit you alot, and St/T4 means hes right on part with you there. Best way to take him out is with a seargent whos got a powerweapon, or with plasmacannons on the squad hes with until theyre gone... and then on him. One thing I always reccommend against eldar is Whirlwinds. 90% of the eldar army has a 4+ save or worse and T 3. Thus you wound on 2's with no armor save allowed. Compared to a vindicator alot of people just arent intimidated by a whirlwind... so itll get atleast one shot if not two off before they even target it... and all it really takes is one shot to get your points back. To a lesser extent the same goes with a dakka predator, though almost everyone is rather familiar with their abilities and threat level it has better armor wich will help. Dont deploy in your rhinos... they will get popped and all youll have done then is given free str4 hits on the people riding inside. Much much better to use them as rolling cover. Consider using a librarian with gate of infinity and machine curse. Why? Because if that falcon starts taking glancing hits youll most likely get a 1 or 2 on the table... wich helps keep it from hitting you with its own weaponry and may make him less willing to come close to you with it... as opposed to hitting you at 36". This keeps his fire dragons away from you. By the way, fire dragons love terminators.... on a schtick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Zaku Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 A good (if risky) trick to use is to put a unit of tactical not very expensive Marines down in Eldar backlines. Suicide for those Marines? Yup. However, what a lot of people don't appreciate is how effective Deathwind missiles are. I've used it against Tau with great effect, as most enemies don't appreciate that 12' blast until its carved two or three units in half. Of course, with the ridiculously punitive Deep Strike rules in 5th, it gets really risky to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Thanks everyone for your advise heres a list i put together with some small strategies HQ Captain (145) x2 lightning claws, artificer armor Troops Tactical Squad I (195) + 5 marines, flamer, heavy bolter, powerfist Rhino (35) Tactical Squad II (190) +5 marines, plasma gun, lascannon Razorback (75) twin-linked lascannon Tactical Squad III (180) +5 marines, meltagun, plasma cannon Rhino (35) Tactical Squad IV (200) +5 marines, meltagun, multi-melta, powerfist Elites Dreadnought (125) assault cannon, heavy flamer Fast Attack Assault Squad (215) +5 marines, powerfist Heavy Support Devastator Squad (230) +5 marines, x4 missile launchers Land Raider Crusader (260) multi-melta Vindicator (115) Total: 2000 61/6 Deployment: take 2nd turn - Deploy Tactical Squads behind Rhinos for cover - Don’t move out with much until Falcon is at least immobilized - Keep Asurmen away from infantry and shoot him and squad with tanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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