battle leaders: now lascannon toting biker bamfs?

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

i know that there was a conclusion a while ago about battle leaders not being allowed to take heavy weapons and bikes but... something has come up and i found something.

 

under the wgbl in the options area: he may be given anything from the armoury and the wolf guard entry on the army list, but he does not count as a wolf guard for purposes of equipment costs and availability.

 

 

ok im putting emphasis on availability because simply because a bike is not available to a heavy weapon toting wolf guard does that mean its not available to the battle leader?

 

 

i was thinking about this while at steleks blog and read that he had battle leaders on bikes with storm shields and multi meltas so it got me thinking

 

 

besides who doesnt want a battle leader on a hog riding around and sniping everything with that bs5

[LPetersson]

The Wolf Guard Bod Guard entry states that models with heavy weapons can't ride bikes.

Presumably this would extent to the WGBL as he is also a model and he picks heavy weapons from that very list...

[TAVAAR]

As cool as this would be as it doesn't say specifically that they can't, spirit of the game would say that it extends to WGBL as well.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

but raw and this is steleks reasoning is that it doesnt say that the wolf guard battle leaders are subject to the retinue restrictions. which has a points in itself. and the faq does say they get heavy weapons so im not sure however he does have a point.

[LPetersson]

Personally, I would use this 'flowchart':

Does WGBL take heavy weapons from the WGBG entry? Yes

Does the WGBG entry say that a model with a heavy weapon cannot use a bike? Yes

Therefore, can a WGBL take a HW and a bike? No

 

If someone tried that on me I'd laugh at them and say 'nice try'.

And then I'd check the rest of his army for this sort of thing...

[Ullr Direfang]

but he does not count as a wolf guard for purposes of equipment costs and availability.

 

*self deleted*

 

*Edit*

 

Codex: Space Wolf Wolf Guard Bodyguard entry:

Models with heavy weapons may not use any other weapons (unless equipped with terminator armor when they may select additional weapons from the armory) and CANNOT ride bikes.

 

i would say this little line takes over here. the wording of "model" throws the theory off some.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

but what about this little line: but he does not count as a wolf guard for equipment and availability meaning that he is able to have things the wolf guard cant: meaning a bike and he is able to weild heavy weapons as the faq states so there fore he should be able to have both.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

but then the line that says

 

but he does not count as a wolf guard for purposes of equipment costs and availability.

 

comes into play, which alot of you seem to be ignoring. does the word availability mean the battle leader gets equipment that is not available to the wolf guard? yes, this is evident in the fact that battle leaders can get the frostblade. could this extend to the space marine bike? maybe

[LPetersson]

Codex: Space Wolf Wolf Guard Bodyguard entry:

Models with heavy weapons may not use any other weapons (unless equipped with terminator armor when they may select additional weapons from the armory) and CANNOT ride bikes.

 

The important bit here is Models.

If the line said 'WGBGs with heavy weapons may not use any other weapons (unless equipped with terminator armor when they may select additional weapons from the armory) and CANNOT ride bikes.' Then he'd have a point.

Unless he can argue that a WGBL is not a model, then I think it's a pretty clear 'No, he can't do that'...

 

If you want a broader discussion and other people's opinions, maybe take this to the official rules section...?

[G. A. K.]

I would have to agree with the majority of my brothers on this one. He follows all the other rules that a WGBG would follow when selecting weapons: one in three models can have a heavy weapon (*rounding fractions up) and therefore he should also be limited to the statement that models riding bikes cannot have heavy weapons. Even an attack bike takes two models to pilot it, one is riding the bike (driving) the other is in a side car (along for the ride). It just goes too far.

 

And to coment on the availability arguement: he can't take an ass cannon if he isn't in termie armor, or a las cannon if he is. So it seems the rules for availability are respected.

 

G

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I just don't get this one, we have a fabulous list and great background so why seek out loopholes to gain an advantage ^_^

[Grey Mage]

If you ignore the part where he cant have a bike with a heavy weapon you must also ignore the part where he can have a heavy weapon.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

except the faq states you can have a heavy weapon. im just playing devil advocates to see if this has any real basis.

[JCarter]

IMO Petersson has it right. The line says "models", it doesn't restrict the ban to WGBG models. Any attempts to the contrary are, IMO, disingenuous, not even honest rules lawyering. Let's read plain English when plain English is written, we have enough trouble when the English isn't plain.

[TAVAAR]

ah ha! There's our problem...it's in English (seriously how many other languages break half the rules they make?!)

[Grey Mage]

except the faq states you can have a heavy weapon. im just playing devil advocates to see if this has any real basis.

The thing is its nothing to do with the FAQ. Weve been able to take those heavy weapons since 3rd edition... its in our codex.

 

The Wolf Gaurd Battle Leader may be given any equipment allowed from the Space Wolves Armory and/or the Wolf Gaurd entry in the army list, but....

 

What are the only options available to the wolf gaurd entry of the army list? Well lets look.... Yep, wolf gaurd heavy weapons, and transports.

 

That same entry also says that they cannot use bikes when equipped with heavy weapons and that if PA cannot take other weapon options.