Facing Dark Eldar in 5th Edition

[Bran Scalphunter]

Hello all, I'm going to be facing a 2000pt Dark Eldar List sometime soon (this or next weekend) and I'm more than a bit nervous about them. I've only fought the DE twice, both of which were during 4th Edition and were quite difficult. The first game ended with me Massacred on Turn 3, while game 2 was a Massacre for me in Turn 2. More or less in the first game I got assaulted second turn and was ripped to shreds by the Incubi, Archon, and Wyches. Second game I managed to get 1st turn and blasted apart all of his Raiders, luckily killing many Warriors and DE in the explosions. Yay 4th Ed Vehicle Penetration charts :) !

 

Now my scouting work has picked up that the list I'll be facing is similar to what I've faced, a fully mechanized Raider list with lots of Warriors.

 

I don't think I'll be able to pull off the incredible luck from last time, so I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips for facing the DE in 5th with my Wolves.

 

As for my list, I'm leaning towards one of my Dakka! lists (sorry it's in shorthand, I just C&P one of them off Notepad)

 

HQ

 

WGBL: 138pts

TDA, AC, FB, WTN, RC, WP

 

SWVD: 160pts

AC, DCCW, SB

 

RP: 140pts

TDA, SB, FB, WTN, RC

 

Elites

 

WsP: 114pts

6 WS

MG, 5Bp, 5CCW

 

Troops

 

3x GHP: 206pts

10 GH

9 B, PF, PG, 8CCW

 

BCP: 220pts

14 BC

3 PW, 13BP, 10CCW

 

HS

 

LFP: 189pts

4 LF, PL

4 ML, B, CCW

 

LRC: 270pts

TLAC, 2 HB, FAS, SL, S, SB, MM

 

PA: 175pts

TLLC, SLC, SL, S, SB

 

The plan is for the RP to join the BC's and hitch a ride in the LRC, which will rumble on towards the approaching DE (saying I don't get 1st turn and pop the Raiders) so the DE have to hit them first. The RP will cast Storm Caller, giving them cover, so that way I'll strike first in combat when the DE charge that squad. If I manage to break the squad, the LRC will gun down the survivors and the remaining BC will stay there. From back on, the rest of my army will hold still, keeping up a rain of fire on the enemy. I've used this against Orks and 'Nids before and it's worked well, so hopefully it will work again. *crosses fingers*

 

So, my Wolf Brothers, does anyone have any tips for facing these foul xenos?

[hendrik]

the DE will eat that landraider alive mate

how about a wolfguard bike unit? they are fast and have the power to sweep whole DE units

[Bran Scalphunter]

the DE will eat that landraider alive mate

how about a wolfguard bike unit? they are fast and have the power to sweep whole DE units

 

Really? What will do that, since I'm incredibly unfamiliar with their Codex? Perhaps I'll be able to screen the LRC from fire then with terrain, where I can wait for them to come closer. :D

[hendrik]

the DE will eat that landraider alive mate

how about a wolfguard bike unit? they are fast and have the power to sweep whole DE units

 

Really? What will do that, since I'm incredibly unfamiliar with their Codex? Perhaps I'll be able to screen the LRC from fire then with terrain, where I can wait for them to come closer. :D

*checked my DE codex:

range 36" S8 AP2 heavy 1

due to its unique nature it counts armour values higher than 12 as 12

 

 

DE armies are packed of this stuff;)

[muzzyman1981]

It's the Lance weapons if I'm not mistaken. Plus, you shouldn't be worried, I played DE in my first ever tourney (4th game ever played) against a long time 40k vet and he conceeded after the 3rd turn. Drop Pods won the day that time, and assaulty Grey Hunters lead by Ragnar =P

[Bran Scalphunter]

Joy.... :D I don't want to drop the LRC though, it's basically a mobile bunker that will kill just about any DE - nothing has higher than a 4+ Save right? Maybe I can keep the LRC obscured so I get a 4+ Cover against nasty Dark Lances. But for that matter, how likely is that Dark Lance to actually penetrate the LR's armor? I doubt it's S9, so it would need a 5+ to do so.

 

Edit: Saw your edit and damn near dropped a can of coke on myself! So a 4+ to glance, 5+ to Penetrate the Raider. Not as bad as it could be. But if it's an assaulty army, as I think it will be, there won't be much shooting from his side.

[Ullr Direfang]

keeping the LRC might be a good idea, but know it will be taking a more then normal amount of shooting. i also assume that you are going to OBEL the scouts. i wouldn't suggest if unless you know he is going to have a back field. many of the DE players i play tend to stick to the raider assault, wyches and lords and warriors, oh my. i would suggest trying to fit a predator in the mix, but once again if you go second... chances are it wont be around very long.

 

edit*

just finished reading your last post: every DE trans port has a dark lance...

[hendrik]

well, usually every raider will carry atleast 1 of these babies

and then there's the blaster,

range 12" S8 AP2 same effect as the dark lance

 

warriors are armed with a splinted weapon, which is a rapid fire weapon so i do't think these will be the CC you'll be meeting

i'd say droppodding, combinded with some fast units maybe?

[Bran Scalphunter]

Actually I planned on OBEl'ing them to try to work their way towards the enemy's Objective assuming it's an Objective or if it's not I'll just infiltrate them so I can take pot shots with the melta as they go by. They'll also play a Psychological role as well. Odds are that he'll throw a Raider after them to neutralize them, giving me another turn to blast them.

[WolfGeezer]

Seriously like the man said, never take a LR (or LRE) against DE, nearly every transport they have and every warrior squad will have dark lances which count all armour above 12 as 12. Anything mechanised probably wants to be rhino, razorback or Dred, but if you are going mech against mech DE you'll need a lot of them as with all those lances they'll quickly take out 1 or 2 vehicles.

 

One thing to note is their skimmers are more vulnerable than yours though. They have a nasty shooty skimmer that can have 3 Plasma Cannons, but its only armour 12 and open topped, don't forget to add +1 on the damage table when shooting all his skimmers.

 

Warriors will die quickly once you are within 24" and against Whirlwinds and HB fire.

 

The bikes are a good idea as long as you make sure they can't be shot by the PC skimmers unless turbo-bosting. I would be tempted to run my little used long fangs with ML and HB if I knew I was facing mech DE. ML's have a good chance of popping anything DE and even a HB can do a job. Make sure they are in cover though and if you feel cheeky attach a WGBL with heavy weapon and 4 wolves.

 

Finally hope your scouting is right and he doesn't bring whyches as these can be nasty. My first game against a wych DE army, by end of my turn 2 I had destroyed >400 points of his for loss of 1GH, then the whyches poped out of the webway engaged all 5 packs I was rolling and I lost big. Keep over 24" back from a webway if he is rolling whyches, if you get to shoot him first he's dead, in combat you'll need a dred, WGBG or a maxed out pack to come out on top.

 

Oh and I would drop a scout and add a PW so you can take out a sneeky warrior squad if you need to.

[Max_Dammit]

Keep an eye on the special ability's, I dont know how they work but make him throw it per squad and not all together so he can give the best result to the lord, I had that happen.

 

Also if he uses portals he must have it deployed when he roles for reserves els the come from the table edge, this gives you a chance to shoot them down (even bolters do that)

 

All i can say is keep an eye out for there trickery's, there worst than normal eldar

[Bran Scalphunter]

So I should make a checklist of things to do then:

 

1. Shoot the bejeezus out of every single Raider as quickly as I can.

 

2. Shoot the bejeezus out of anything carrying a Dark Lance or Blaster.

 

3. Once the Raiders are dead, shoot the bejeezus out of everything else.

 

4. Watch for the Webway Portal. On a related note, does it open even if I kill the carrier before he drops it?

 

5. Keep a sharp eye on any funky unit abilities.

 

6. Stick to cover, because everything he has has higher Initiative than me.

 

7. Sacrifice goat to the Emperor and Russ. (before game)

 

Anything I'm missing or did I get everything?

[WolfGeezer]

4. Watch for the Webway Portal. On a related note, does it open even if I kill the carrier before he drops it?

 

He has to drop it. If he is going non-wych wouldn't expect a webway and generaly I find the webway is being carried by a lunatic with a 2+Inv save hiding behind solid cover to avoid the 1500 - 0 loss, but if he takes one and puts the holder out in the open, shoot the hell out of him for a true annihilation, then setup again or pretend the guy had a wound left for a decent game.

 

Oh and despite all that we've said you should beat DE given you can take a list a bit tailored.

[Vassakov]

If he's a competant DE player, this will be brutal. Expect perhaps 6-8 Raiders, 75% of which will have Warriors totting Blasters and Lances (plus the Lance on the Raider) plus an Archon/Incubi tag team. The Incubi could, if fortune favours him have 3 S5 WS5 I7 Power Weapon Attacks, plus a 3+ Save and FNP. Combine that with an effective 18" Charge Range from the Raider, and you could be in trouble fast.

 

In addition, he'll probably have 3 Ravagers, each with 3 Disintergraters - that could be 9 S5 AP3 shots per turn.

 

To be honest, I'm not really sure you're list could be worse suited to the threat you face. The LRC will die, probably on Turn 1. The Long Fangs I would give a bit longer, given that the Pred and Dread would be higher targets. The GH's are never going to see combat. Same for the scouts. The DE will keep them at arms length, or pick them off using the Incubi.

 

My advice would be drop the LRC, Blood Claws, Scouts and Long Fangs. Take a Pod for each of the Grey Hunters units, and swap the Lascannon Pred for a Dakka Pred - as all DE vehicles are AV11 max, more shots will count. Also, you can use it to mow down Warriors when the Raiders die. Finally, I would take 3 Dreads and a Ven Dread, each with a TLAC and Missile Laucher - working on the basis that 4 will be tricky for the DE to kill and they have enough fire to cope.

 

I'm not trying to put you down, brother, far from it. But the list you have, if your foe is anything like those I have faced, will require much luck and skill to prevail. An ale to you brother - you'll need a stong arm and Russ's gaze for victory.

[Grey Mage]

Throw down alot of cover, stay in cover. Wait for them to come to you... and they will, theyll have to.

 

6+ saves on most of their men... AV10 transports... almost everything in the army will die to bolter fire.

 

So what I reccommend is that you use alot of buildings, nearly a cityfight map if possible. Avoid drop pods... they are free killpoints... and will only split your forces.

 

Wich reminds me, dont split your forces. They like to hack you apart peicemeil.

 

The have a good number of AP2 weapons, theyre called disentegrators *SP* and they hit like plasma cannons and like starcannons... not good.

 

If you take your landraider Id actually deploy it in cover... and then leave it there. Who cares about dangerous terrain in the trees if you never move it? Dakka predators are creme here btw.

 

Rhinos are good... the extra stormbolter is probly worth it, but thats about it. Mobile cover, anti tank, anti troop, all in one nice little package.

 

And of course... assault cannons. Mid strength and AP, lots of shots.

[Bran Scalphunter]

That was my original plan GM, just to bed down in cover and frag them as they swooped in, but from what Vass is saying, I'd be royally fethed if I tried that. ;) The list I put up I had designed for killing softer infantry figuring that I had 12 AC shots a turn- 8 of which hit on a 2+ and the other 4 with a reroll, god knows how many bolter shots at them because the DE will come close to me to kill me, plasma to put down the glass cannon Raiders, Lascannons and missile launchers to take stubborn Raiders and clumped up Warriors, but that seems not to be my best shot.

 

I've never met the player, so I don't know his play style, all I know is he's playing a Raider and Warrior heavy army. Besides, with all those S5 and higher weapons, how can he fire them all when he's moving? The Warriors won't be able to shoot Blasters and lances as long as they're moving, so I should be able to outgun them with longer-ranged weapons.

 

If I have to, I'll settle for a Cityfight battle and duke it out from my ruins and buildings. That way his skimmers will be forced to move relatively slowly since they're such big and clunky models going through the closed up terrain of the ruins. At least then I'll be able to use my weight of Eldar killing fire to my advantage. I hope... :P

[MaveriK]

So I should make a checklist of things to do then:

 

1. Shoot the bejeezus out of every single Raider as quickly as I can.

 

2. Shoot the bejeezus out of anything carrying a Dark Lance or Blaster.

 

3. Once the Raiders are dead, shoot the bejeezus out of everything else.

 

4. Watch for the Webway Portal. On a related note, does it open even if I kill the carrier before he drops it?

 

5. Keep a sharp eye on any funky unit abilities.

 

6. Stick to cover, because everything he has has higher Initiative than me.

 

7. Sacrifice goat to the Emperor and Russ. (before game)

 

Anything I'm missing or did I get everything?

 

MMM well all I have to tell you wolf brother is "dakka dakka dakka dakka dakka dakka" let them come to you and keep your distance. Have a solid gun line and consider using a vindicator. Use a defensive formation as indicated on page 23 in the SW codex.

[ChapniK]

well as a Dark Eldar players here are a few tips. We don't have any staying power as most people here have claimed. A few correction that i have to point out. Dark eldar don't have s6 power weapon, we have power weapons that wound on a 4+ glance on a 6 or a power weapon that boost your S by 1 two handed do but its always match up with a helm that counts as a pistol so +1 attack. The only way that you can get S6 is the the 2 handed power W, a 1turn drug and a item that only activates once he has captured a model so that could take a turn or two.. There 3 types of DE armies Raiders heavy army, Stargate armies and wych cults.

 

 

 

 

Tips:

-Always stay in cover we have so many ap2 weapon that its not even funny.

- Devastators are your friend with either missile launchers or heavy bolters

- A cheap predator is good it can be blown up " but its still very cheap

- Razorbacks are a cheap way to cover some of your squads and get heavy bolters

- get some squads to cover each other with the changes brougth with 5th they cant charge into a new squad

- Dreads are good take one with ass cannon and missile launcher, its will still be good in CC and it will blow away the raiders and ravagers

- take a librarian as your Hq one of the power should the initiative 10 just so you can take down some incubi before they kill your squad.

- land speeders with twin heavy bolters should be pretty effective

that pretty much all that have to say

 

 

Stuff to wacthout for

- Every squad can be equiped with a weapon that a blast and for every guys its touches you have -1 LD and its pinning

- We have a weapon called a destructor that can either be fired as a plasma cannon or 4s ap3 weapon

- Our HQ is ridiculously powerful and cheap it took out 400 points of black templar on its own on a bad day

- We can have 3 hq for the price of one and they all have awesome wargear, such as ramdom ap flamer and a pistol that if it kills a guy does a small blast with the S= to the toughness of the model that it killed and the ap= to its armour save so most time it will wound on a 4+ and will give no armour saves.

- wyches they will offensive grenades and will have a 4+ invunarable in CC and you will lose your extra hand weapon if your not strength 6 naturally

- wyches, bikers and the green goblins will have a random drugs roll at the start of the game wich will either be +1 attack, +1 strength, always strike first that all i can rember rigth now. the wyches if the roll a one can now charge as if the were beasts.

-kill ravagers fast they have 3 weapons on them and there only armour 11

- Bikers are dangerous 2 special weapons that are either mini lances or blast weaposn that are s6 blast no ap

 

That all i can give you rigth now i don have mi codex with me.

[Wena]

Also be aware that most DE players will have Shadow Fields on their transports that reduce range to hit them by 6". Several times I have tried to hit them with my vindicator and my range was reduced to 18" and I would miss...

 

Good Luck - the only army I really respect so far is DE (especially against a good player)

 

Wena

[Ryzouken]

also be aware of a 2+ inv save on their HQ. (you read that right. 2+) AND expect roughly 20 dark lances and 8-10 transports with only about 60-70 troopers (all of which are easily killable)

 

That's about the most dangerous cheese list DE can make.

 

And I thought the Dark Lance was an assault weapon... >.>

[Vassakov]

All DE vehicles are fast, so they can move 6" and fire everything or move 12" and fire one main weapon. As many DE weapons are Assault Weapons, they can continue to fire from Open Topped Raiders. So yeah, it gets really nasty really quickly.

[Alethe]

And I thought the Dark Lance was an assault weapon... >.>

 

Dark Lance is Heavy 1 36" Str8 AP2 Lance

Blaster is Assault 1 12" Str8 AP2 Lance

 

 

Hope that help. I'm a DE player btw.

[Ryzouken]

I learnt that when I played a DE list at my last tournament (with my 3 Land Raiders... Yikes!)

[SJumppanen]

Just a thought. There was a DE unit with ability to halve enemy's WS skill. But it doesn't effect characters that always hit on 3+.

[Vxx]

The Wyches do that. They half the WS of the unit they are attacking as long as the unit is S6 or less. It only counts when the unit is attacking the Wyches, not when the Wyches attack back. People will argue that but the DE player should know this because it has been FAQ'd. They will also negate any bonus attack you get for having a close combat weapon and receive a 4+ invuln in close combat. Depending on what they roll for their combat drugs they can be a thorn in your side. The combat drugs are rolled at the beginning of the game and can give them +1 to their strength, WS or attacks, Always Strike first, another one that basically makes them fearless and 12" assault.

 

They will hang with anything in CC minus a Nightbringer. They typically wont decimate units but will stay around long enough with their 4+ invuln to whittle them down.

 

Best way to deal with Wyches is to shoot them because their save is normally a 6+ and will fall easily unless they are in a transport which should be dealt with quickly.