advice for game tonight against 1500 Orks

[ptoelmaic]

Hi All,

 

Long time lurker but no rookie to W40K however I am becoming increasingly frustrated with fighting Orks. Last game I had vs Ork at 1750 I managed to get a draw with an Eldar army.

 

This time I am playing Codex SM Vanilla no uber characters. My list is as follows:

 

HQ Term Chaplain

 

1 x Elite Term Ass sqd

 

5 sqds x 10 Tact all with ML and Flamer

 

1 sqd x 5 scout with TH and ML

 

1 x Vindi

 

1 x WW

 

1 x AB with MM

 

Comes to around 1500 + pts

 

My friend a wily Ork player will field a balanced list which will include at least 10 Nobz with Painboy and Warbozz in a battlewagon and Mad Doc and either 10 nobz or (20 boyz) in battlewagon / truk, and possibly even Snikrot and 15 commandoes. He then usually goes for 6 sqds of 20 - 30 boyz and a sqd of Loota and usually a dread and 2/3 killa kans and a weirdboy or a mekboy with shokk attack gun or both! He likes to move many units across the board presenting many targets but not allowing concentration of my firepower, then I usually get swamped....

 

Now I have been a long time admirer of this forum for its sensible and adult response and advice on tactica (my favourite log being from Mort and using the new BA - interestingly my other SM army is BA can show pics if requested) -

 

I need some advice for tonights game - the setting is Dawn of War with command and control (2 objectives) he won die roll and asked me to deploy first terrain is one building a watchtower (1st objective) and several hills (hills block line of sight) and 3 woods (one being the 2nd objective):

 

a) Is my army list ok?

;) How should I play against my friends ork horde - any advice - what to look out for etc?

c) Dawn of war is interesting in that if I play 2 units split in to combat squads I push him back near to start line however it means they are on their own and vulnerable to quick overrun - would you deploy or would you just move on from table edge?

d) how do I counter his many targets presented but getting swamped by numbers in hand to hand combat?!

 

Any advice greatly appreciated............. thanks in advance :)

[greymeister]

HQ Term Chaplain

 

1 x Elite Term Ass sqd

 

5 sqds x 10 Tact all with ML and Flamer

 

1 sqd x 5 scout with TH and ML

 

1 x Vindi

 

1 x WW

 

1 x AB with MM

 

 

Just some general comments about your list. I assume your scout sergeant with the teleport homer is going to allow you to deepstrike the terminators. However, 6 scouts is not going to be hard for a decent ork list to take out, leaving your terminators to float in the wind where they may. Furthermore, your terminators will be completely ineffective when they arrive because none of them except the chaplain have a shooting attack. This will give the orks one turn to react to your terminators before they are useful, and that may be turn 2 or later. Your tactical squads will be very static and not nearly as mobile as the ork list you describe. This will allow him to focus his firepower where he wants and you will just have to try to react the best you can. The heavy support options are viable, but the attack bike will be vulnerable as a target to shooting.

 

As for advice, I think the list can work but it won't be pretty depending on what he brings this time. You're not heavy on the dakka and your lack of mobility will probably frustrate you. My suggestion would be to buy a few razorbacks/rhinos for your squads and maybe drop a few of the extra tacticals. Rhinos will give you valuable mobility and razorbacks will help with mobility but can give you extra dakka. Since you may end up combat squading anyway, I see no downside to the free shots from a few razorbacks. I would also say take out the assault terminators unless you can buy them some LR variant, particularly the Crusader from my own personal bias. Otherwise bring regular terminators or assault squads with jetpacks or in rhinos. The lack of any vehicles other than your Vindicator and Whirlwind mean any AT he has will be wasted unless he aims it at those and that hurts their survivability.

 

 

Good luck, Orks can be a tough match. I didn't comment on the scenario because I try not to design lists based on a specific one, but since you know it will be DoW, you should also realize that lack of mobility will hurt you more in this scenario than any of the others.

[waaanial00]

Hi there,

 

First off have you read this post? It contains a number of links to topics where I have spotted anti ork tactics (Also where I have thrown in my personal experience with the Green Menace).

 

now in answer to your questions

 

a. Hmmmm you ahve nothing fast enough to capture or contest his objective late in the game. This will mean that if you can weather the storm he will throw at you it will be a draw at best. You really should get something fast attack to be able to zoom towards his objective and deny him the pleasure of a win at the least. I can suggest Landspeeders with Heavy Flamer, Deep Striking Assault Troops kept out of the way until needed if they turn up too early. you might also consider getting a Razorback or two for some late breaking objective dashing, just keep them out of LOS with the Lootas.

 

You have nothing to counter the lootas. All your ranged weapons will be thinning out the hoard or tackling the transports. Consider deep striking your terminators so that they can engage this threat. Odds on they will be next to their objective and invite enough of a challenge to disrupt their attack wave.

 

Have you got drop pods? If so load two of your tacticals up with them and drop them behind enemy lines to break the Ork assault.

 

Not all of this is suggested at the same time but all three options are ways to break up the ork menace and challenge his objective whilst maintaining a solid line of troops near your battle line and objective.

 

b. Try to play the long game until he gets too close then get stuck in. Once they are close get agressive with your troops and get the charge, it is better to pistol shoot and charge in than wait for them to charge you. Your tacticals may not be that good in combat but they are better charging in and denying the orks their +1 Strength than rapid firing point blank and hoping for the best.

 

Target his fast moving stuff first and make sure that it cannot get to you quickly.

 

It sounds like he is not packing a Kustom Force Field so make every shot count on his troops, they will get no save against your bolter fire.

 

Concentrate fire for effect rather than trying to diminish the army as a whole.

 

Stay out of cover! You are marines and therefore cover benefits you nothing in combat against orks so stay where you can be more mobile.

 

c. Dont push them back. As this will allow them a free unit to charge and deny you from shooting. If it were me I would deploy two full tactical squads in a prime firing lane and maximise their two heavy weapons straight away. They will come to you so no need to worry about getting closer.

 

Alternatively dont deploy anything... You do not have to and it forces him to deploy against nothing. This does however give him an excuse to run closer to you but at least you will be able to deploy all your army in one go knowing exactly where he is. That way you can line up to counter him better. Its a dirty trick but it is used a lot.

 

d) Concentrate on one threat at a time and remember that the only thing that counts is the objectives. If he wants to rumble with your tactical squads which are located a country mile from both objectives then let him. Dont worry about losses if you are winning the game.

[ptoelmaic]

Greymeister and waaanial00 thank you both for your tips. Sometimes I get blinkered effect and what you both have said seem spot on. never thought about dropping a tac sqd for a couple of razors - i'm always worried about the mass of orks - in terms of fgures in 1500 points = roughly 120 figures which is ouch when you have around 40 - 50.

 

Thank you as well about deployment and the short, mid and long term game play I will bear all the points in mind tonight. I rarely get chance to play because of work but I'm looking forward to the game - i reckon we will play this game over 2/3 nights so please chip in.

 

Execllent point on the Termies - i will go back and re think them maybe swap for a JP ass sqd? or swap for a reg termie sqd with hvy flamer or as suggested a LRC with term ass sqd - but where would I drop my points for the LRC?

 

All advice readily received..... ;)

[ptoelmaic]

quick update - taken on board the tips went with the following:

 

Chaplain JP

5 scouts 1 with HB & HF, 3 Snipers, 1 Srgt Telion

40 Tac std fit ML and FL

10 Ass PS, 2 x FL JP

1 Razor Twin HF

1 Vindi

1 WW

1 Dred with 2 HF

 

Ork deployed:

 

1 Warphead

80 Shoota boyz with 8 Big Shoota

2 Battlewagons with Red paint, armour plates, grot riggers, and 1 big shoota

3 Buggies all with TLRocket

1 Looted Boomgun

and 1 unit that can outflank - I'm assuming Snikrot with 15 commandoes? or could he have somethign else?!

 

1st turn deploy 2 units to force orks back brought units on in crescent formation ---__--- shooting : no casualties caused to Orks

 

He deployed shooting killed 2 scouts and scouts failed morale but managed to stay on the board and rallied.

 

Did I say how lucky he is with his dice rolling (always hits 80 - 90% time and makes saves 80 -90%) and how generally I am unlucky on dice rolls! :(

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

It's all luck with ork roles, sometimes i swear the give waagh powers to their commanders. BTW try Land speeders with two HB's, they can stay outside of rang, draw fire and dish out hurt. WW are good and from the sounds of it a TFC would hurt him.

[waaanial00]

@ptoelmaic - How goes the game? I assmue that you must be mid way through at this point if not finished. I would like to know how it all went. Orks are damn lucky sometimes so I wouldnt look too much into it if you trust him not to use loaded dice (not accusing but you never know sometimes).

 

You are luck. I have seen, and built, much nastier forces so you arent being put on the back foot as soon as it is deployed. As long as you keep your eye on the prize (objectives) you should do fine.

 

Wan

[ptoelmaic]

Hello All,

 

sorry for not getting back sooner but we never really finished as my mate called it quits and work got in the way however I can tell you the following (if memory serves me correctly):

 

Turns 2 & 3:

 

I moved the Dred forward to "tarpit" one of the Ork boyz squads. WW and Vindi wasted one half an Ork squad and my SM Tacs struck back with some bolter fire on another Ork boz unit. The Ass unit moved in ready to launch an assault for turn 3. Orks moved forward across the whole board and on my left flank my SM Tac squad was doing the Hokey Cokey peppering the ork warbuggies with bolter fire, whislt his warbuggies tried to outflank my line. (lesson here when with ML in unit try find optimal spot to deploy and stick to it).

 

Turn 3, took out one ork shotta boyz unit with fire from WW and Vindi and the SM tac on right flank hit another Boyz unit and was then promptly charged by the Tac and the Ass unit - 1 ork unit elminated from Assault and 1 virtually eliminated / running (from shooting!).

 

Turn 4 I consolidated my Ass and tac on right to start striking his Boom gun and remaining ork boyz unit in centre with warphead. Took out one battlewaggon but the other battlewaggon rammed my dred - now there was a bit of confusion here as my friend suggested its better to take the ramming and not the death and glory because if I failed the d&g I would get hit on the rear automatically - anyway he rammed me and I lost my dred (not pleased but there you go), however I took another ork boyz unit down to half and one warbuggy kaboom.

 

At that point he called it quits. :) I had 3.5 Tac squads, 7 Ass figs plus Chappy, WW, Vindi, 1/2 Scout sqd.

 

My only gripe is that I should have gone for d&g as the outcome could have been more favourable if I did succeed, and as it was if I d&g or rammed the result would have been the same for my dred if I failed either, anyway.

 

All in all, took much learning away from that game and looking forward to the next, which is a 1750 pt game. I have to create an all comers list and he provides a new enemy (not sure who it will be)..... will keep you posted :D and a lot sooner next time - sorry once again for being late on the report. :)

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

I'd just add transports and maybe some speeders/attack bikes/whirlwinds. Those tacs needs rhinos. Good job sounds like you did pretty good.

[ptoelmaic]

Many thanks Srgnt McColl - I would agree for any other time but I had inkling that my friend would go for the charge / waagh with Battlewagons zooming across board and his orks debussing and firing - when he did this I fired bolt pistols and charged in with two tac. My other tacs provided fire support.

 

next game is 1750 and I have to create an all comers list! This will be a lot harder.

[HERO]

I like Cassius over a Terminator Chaplain. 3+ with FNP and T6 is better than 2+ armor. And he costs less. And he has a Combi-flamer.. which is great vs. Orks. And with T6, he won't be insta-gibbed vs. Power Claws.

 

I think we have a clear choice here.

[ptoelmaic]

Hi hero,

 

I never thought about Cassius - now there's a thought for my next game! :)