1st game as a SW and need som help on how stuff in5th ed

[Ikken]

So I am gearing up for my 1st game playing space wolves ,1000pt match this sunday . I will likely be facing guard , or some other marine based unit . ;) not likely to be Orks , as I am the only player who plays orks with any heavy units ,the other ork guys are too light on any heavy or elite units for a 1000pt game and could only field scrap so should be no problem there . I would like to ask a bunch of questions on different rules so I figured I would pile it all into this thread , and ask questions as I build my list up . I am sure to get challenged on things by someone so if I do my homework I will be in a much better position and can even take the answers from this thread with me .

ok here we go .

 

fenrisian wolves

I am thinking it is a good idea to add some in the mix. I need to know how they work in regards to wound allocation , casualty allocation , and targeting of the char they are with .

 

I understand they act as a retinue , and the IC for targeting purposes can't be singled out in shooting attacks or CC attacks .

 

does the IC with fenrisian wolves . still obey the IC rules of 5th edition in other ways in that he must get into base to base with another IC if he can , and his attacks must be directed at the enemy IC ?

 

lets say I have a unit of the IC and 4 fenrisian wolves , that unit takes 5 wounds , I assign one to every model 1 to each wolf and one to the IC. now lets say the wolves make their saving throw ,and the char fails his . the way I read the rule ,I can allocate the wolves as casualties even if it is the char that takes the wound , so instead of my IC taking the wound I remove a wolf model as the casualty instead of the IC taking a wound . This effectively grants the IC4 extra wounds that he can take b4 he starts taking wounds himself ?

How is this affected by auto death weapons like power fists / klawz, ap 1 and 2 weapons ect. ect. or weapons that negate saving throws ?

Are there any units or weapons out there in the other armies that circumvent this rule ,or that over power this rule?

 

say for example my IC gets hit by an ork war boss with a power klaw ,boom he is dead , but hold on I can remove a wolf model in stead of the IC and carry on ? am I completely out to lunch on this ?

 

 

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Counter attack

Is this rule redundant in 5th edition , as it seems to me all armies have this with the "defenders react phase of the assault" the way it is written inthe codex it acts like this .the way counter attack is written in the standard rules is different , which wording do i use ?

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Mixed armor does it still apply ? , and if so is it still used as written ?

 

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"And they shall know no fear "does this equal fearless , or does this mean that they cannot be over run by a sweeping advance , and if they loose the sweeping advance they are effectively locked in combat

 

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True Grit ? ( remember that I am normally an Ork player )

Bolter = shoota ? a 2 handed weapon that is an assault 3 weapon .

Bolter is not listed in any of the weapons lists I have , does it refer to the boltgun in the listing ?

if it refers to the boltgun which is a rapid fire weapon ,does this allow me to assault after I have fired the weapon ? if not it seems a bit of a redundant rule . I get to a +1 attack for an extra hand ccw but loose the +1 attack for the assault . but i only get the +1 if i spend points to buy the extra pistol or ccw . If i don't spend the cash I still get the +1 attack but from the charge but not an extra attack from the CCw . My poor Ork brain just over loaded with all that humie logic :) and came up with a zero sum . any point to this rule ?

what am I missing here ?

 

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are there rules that I should be aware of that I will likely miss , or get caught on being new to SWs ?

 

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reading the official FAQ and the FAQ from this board i am under the impression that SW units , equipment and vehicles benefit from the generic space marine rules and operate just like normal generic space marines unless our codex specifically says something different . SW ICs use the rules for SWs only , and if there is no reference to it in the sw codex it does not exist for us as far as ICs and HQs are concerned .

 

basicly memorize the CSM for troops , elites , vehicles , fast attack heavies ect , and I will be ablet to use those units as it states in the CSM unless there is a CSW rule that changes it . Ignore the CSM for ICs and HQs and go entirely with what the CSW says .

 

have I got that correct ?

 

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I am sure I will have more questions but those are the immediate ones .

sorry to be a pest but any help is very much appreciated .

[whitewolfmxc]

not sure about wolves avoiding the Special character to be single out in CC

 

but no , not every army or unit has counter charge , not every universal rule in the red book applies to everyone , if your unit or army codex says they have then they have it

 

also you use the new rule , its in our FAQ (so blood claws get 4 attacks charging and counter charging , as it counts as them charging)

 

and they shall know no fear , just use the one written in SM codex , mixed armor is not there anymore

 

bolter = bolt gun , and NO you cant assault if you fired a rapid fire weapon (rapid fire or not) AND you DONT get charging bonus (so i assume no counter charging too) for using true grit (with bolter armed) , but you always get that second CC weapon bonus in CC

 

so Grey hunter armed with bolter always gets 2 attacks , charged or being charged

 

Yes use all the point cost and variants (except V dred) for SW

[muzzyman1981]

Bran please go get one of your socks please....any one will do me thinks.

[Long Fang]

lets say I have a unit of the IC and 4 fenrisian wolves , that unit takes 5 wounds , I assign one to every model 1 to each wolf and one to the IC. now lets say the wolves make their saving throw ,and the char fails his . the way I read the rule ,I can allocate the wolves as casualties even if it is the char that takes the wound

 

Nope, the model that is allocated the wound takes it, so in this example the IC takes a wound/dies.

 

As for targeting the IC the only way to do it is to kill all the Wolves, cos its a retinue he can't be singled out like he can br if he just joins a unit. The only unit I'm aware of that can target him any way is a Vindicare assassin as they can choose targets within a squad.

 

 

basicly memorize the CSM for troops , elites , vehicles , fast attack heavies ect , and I will be ablet to use those units as it states in the CSM unless there is a CSW rule that changes it . Ignore the CSM for ICs and HQs and go entirely with what the CSW says .

 

Only use SM codex when told to, our troops for example are nothing like those in the SM codex.

 

 

And be prepared to duck.... you'll know what i mean when Bran gets here. muhahahaha

 

Long Fang

[Ullr Direfang]

Bran please go get one of your socks please....any one will do me thinks.

 

agreed.....

 

but....

 

1. i am not sure as much on the wolves, but i don't tend to run them... i have a few models on the way but don't think i am going to use them much.

 

2. counter attack is counter attack/charge, defenders react is something different. if you pass a leadership test you get an additional CC attack for when you are charged.

 

3. mixed armor.... yes and no... to the point that you take saves per model so if you have a squad with mixed armor you have to distribute attacks.... as normal now....

 

4. "and they shall know no fear"..... read C:SM and you have your answer...

 

5. true grit.... one of the most talked about things when 5th first hit.... you get an addition close combat weapon when you have a bolter/boltgun/bigger version of a bolt pistol... if you rapid fire it you can't charge.... if you buy a bolter, you lose your pistol..... true grit doesn't work with counter attack/charge.... as you count as charging. basically you get two attacks all the time with a bolter, and with a bolt pistol you get 3 attacks on the charge/counter charge/attack.... it's you call how to go....

 

6. you don't get all of the units from C:SM... read the FAQs for what you can use. and if C:SW says to see C:SM and you can't find the item in C:SM... that means that item is no longer usable. you shouldn't run into to many problems your first few games, but if you look through the FAQs and sticky threads at the top of the SW section of BandC and you will be fine.

 

 

And before it is said....... i hereby give up my ale for the rest of the week and have to wait for until all my other battle brothers have eaten before i can part take of any meats, or other foods, and i accepted any beatings from the extermasock that i deserve, and i will lead a pack of bloodclaws into battle for my next three battles......

[whitewolfmxc]

so i want to ask do Wolves make a Character not be singled out in CC ?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

so i want to ask do Wolves make a Character not be singled out in CC ?

 

yes, with a wolf guard retinue.

 

WLK

[whitewolfmxc]

so only wolf guards do that ? while Normal Fenris wolves cant ?

[WG Vrox]

so i want to ask do Wolves make a Character not be singled out in CC ?

 

I think what WL Kieran means is, yes, just as if they were a WG Retinue.

 

WG Vrox

[Ikken]

Thanks for the help everyone , the info is appreciated .

 

so here is my list for this weekends game 1001 pts .

 

HQ :

Wolflord

-wolfpelt

-Frost Blade

-Bolt Pistol

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102 pts

 

Wolf Guard Bodyguard x 3

-bolt pistol x 3

-cc weapon x 3

-terminator armor x3

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96 pts

 

 

Wolf Priest

-wolfpelt

 

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98 pts

 

Wolf Guard Bodyguard x 3

-bolt pistol x 3

-cc weapon x 3

-terminator armor x3

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96 pts

 

 

Elites :

Venerable Dreadnought :

-Twin linked laz cannon

-extra armor

-Smoke launchers

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190 pts

 

Troops:

 

Grey Hunters x 7

-Bolters x5

-Plasma Pistol

-Plasma Gun

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146 pts

 

Blood Claws x 12

- melta gun

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136 pts

 

Heavy Support :

Long fangs x2 + pack leader

-Missle Launcher

-Las Cannon

- meltagun ( Pack Leader)

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137 pts

 

 

I think I have got it all correct , I was suprised that I had to buy the standard gear for the wolf lord and the body guard units . there was no standard gear listed so i assumed i had to buy it all .

 

I am not too sure about the make up , if it is good or not . not a lot of models for 1000 pts .

30 models and a dread for 1000 pts :( no armor . as an ork player that makes me nervous , that is only about 1 mob of boyz .

 

any advice would be appreciated , anything I should swap for something else , or units that may not be very effective . or on the best was to use the units .

 

I figure to plop the long fangs 6 inches in in about the center of the board if possible , let them pick off enemy armor . run the blood claws and the dread in an assault wave try to get them into cc same with the wolf lord and the wolf priest with their body guards . use the grey hunters as a shooty unit and let them mop up any thing that gets through the line .

 

 

not use to having shooty types that can hit anything :blink: should be interesting ,a 3+ armor save will be something new too , but I still think that is not a lot of models for 1k points .

[muzzyman1981]

Please put any Army Lists in the Army List section located at the top of the page

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...mp;s=&f=111

[WG Vrox]

Please put any Army Lists in the Army List section located at the top of the page

 

ahh special case muzzy, I think we can help him in this thread.

 

Your wolf Guard must have between 4 and 9 models so 3 won't work. Also TDA models can not carry bolt pistols. Sorry man

[Grey Mage]

Your correct Ikken, you do have to buy all their equipment, except for the wolf priest who comes with some basic stuff.

 

The only real problem I see with your list is the wolf gaurd bodygaurd... I dont believe our terminators can have a bolt pistol and clos combat weapon. So if you want to keep them Id drop one of them and use his points to upgrade their equipment a bit. EDIT: Oops, yeah Vrox is right, you need atleast three of them.

 

Well you have six of them, so Id take one and put it in the wolf lords pack... and then drop the other two to give them some equipment. OR you can get your bloodclaws some powerfists and your grey hunters a few more pack members wich would get more guys on the board.

[deedark]

Not sure at 1000pts I be fielding in effect 3 HQs, Lord, Priest and Vdread

 

Make Vdread a HQ and run either priest or battle leader to save points

 

Claws need fists or at least PWs loose the melta he'll hit sh*t - flamer is an option

 

I wouldnt field fangs either at 1000pts

 

Good hunting

 

D.

[Ikken]

so if i loose the Wolf Priest and his bodyguard and sub the venerabl dreadnaught as an HQ

 

and downgrade the wolf lord to a battle leader , to save the 15 pts , I will gain 209 points

 

add one more terminator body guard to the battle leader for an extra 32 points ( give the terminator bodyguard bolters in stead of bolt pistols )

I should have 177 points left .

 

I am thinking I could take a whirlwind , with hunter killer missiles and extra armor for 100 pts

and fire the blood claws into a rhino 35 pts and take a couple extra grey hunters , that should get me to the 1000pts .

 

I noticed hunter killers have no range limit , do they act like regular missile in that they can be either frag or krack type attacks ?

 

I could loose the battle leaders terminator body guard , give him feirstine wolves in stead and maybe buy some land speeders .

 

would that be better ,are terminator body guards worth the extra 20 points or so more than the wolves ?

[WG Vrox]

add one more terminator body guard to the battle leader for an extra 32 points ( give the terminator bodyguard bolters in stead of bolt pistols.

 

You may want to look in your Codex to see how all this WG and their Wargear stuff works. Don't mind helping out but your going to have to know that book inside and out so study your lessons my wet eared wolf brother. Hint: The T next to the wargear is the only weapons a terminator my take.

 

 

would that be better ,are terminator body guards worth the extra 20 points or so more than the wolves ?

 

Now these are the questions we can help with, yes yes and oh yeah. Wolves are handy when leading a pack of Troops or Long Fangs, as you can only fit so many units into a transport you will have to choose either or is most cases. However, if you are wanting to put some serious tough units on the ground, a WG with Retinue is well worth their points if used correctly. Usually a HQ with Retinue is a spearhead unit, meaning first contact with the enmie' s main force.

 

WG Vrox.

[Ikken]

add one more terminator body guard to the battle leader for an extra 32 points ( give the terminator bodyguard bolters in stead of bolt pistols.

 

You may want to look in your Codex to see how all this WG and their Wargear stuff works. Don't mind helping out but your going to have to know that book inside and out so study your lessons my wet eared wolf brother. Hint: The T next to the wargear is the only weapons a terminator my take.

 

 

WG Vrox.

 

Thanks that is very handy , I will give them all storm bolters 24 inch range and assault capacity should help them do some damage b4 I hit in cc .

 

thanks.

 

I might have to re do some of the weapons on my models ,but I would prefer to get them geared up the way I will use them .

that is good info

Thanks

[Grey Mage]

Never underestimate the use of a combiweapon though. Inexpensive plastic can be garnered through the commander sprue.

[Ikken]

so I had my 1st outing as a space wolf ,

didn't go so good . ran into a pile of sisters in tanks :)(

 

my final game list was :

 

HQ :

Wolf guard battle leader

 

Wolf Guard Bodyguard x4

-terminator armor x4

storm bolters , chain fists

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HQ

Venerable Dreadnought :

-Twin linked laz cannon

-extra armor

-Smoke launchers

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Troops:

 

Grey Hunters x 8

-Bolters x7

-melta

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Blood Claws x 10

bolt pistals

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Heavy Support :

Long fangs x3 + pack leader

-Missle Launcher

-Las Cannon

- meltagun ( Pack Leader)

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wirl wind artillery tank

 

 

was a dawn of war match , I deployed at the center , and my opponent held deployment and walked on .

 

grey hunters and venerable dread deployed up front , he got blasted to pieced by some super missiles

he did nothing , but absorbed a few rounds of fire b4 he was wrecked and became terain.

 

terminators and battle leader accomplished nothing , and ended up bein killed by same missiles ( AP1 )

 

the got to shoot at an independent char who shrugged off the storm bolter shots like it was pop corn .

 

the grey hunters got flamed by a deep striking unit and died with out even getting a shot off.

 

the blood claws did ok , I was surprised by them , they tied up an independent char , and another char later in the game , but ultimately were reduced to 3 models .

 

the long fangs did some damage , they stunned one of his missile tanks , and popped 2 rhinos . b4 getting zapped by the ap1 missile tank.

the whirl wind did a good job , it stunned a missile tank , and pie plated a squad that jumped out of a wrecked rhino , and got a piece of a 2nd squad . and generally made alot of noise. it and 3 blood claws were all I had left on the board when the game ended at the end of turn 5 .

 

I wonder if taking a tank would have been a better choice . maybe a lemon russ or a crusader , pile the terminators and battle leader in and run them across the board .

could have dropped the ven dread , picked up an iron priest ( put him in the crusader as well ) and shrunk the blood claws and grey hunter squads some to make up the cost .

maybe traded the whirlwind for some speeders ( but i don't think i like speeders)

could have subbed the whirlwing and the long fangs for some heavier Armour i guess.

 

I thought the grey hunters were overpriced for their effectivness , am I wrong on this ?

[WG Vrox]

Gonig to be honest with ya, that is a very ineffective army list and mostly the reason you lost. Foot sloggin armies have to have alot of troops, yours didn't. Having a Ven Dred and WG in TDA takes up way too many points for it to be an effective foot army. So yes get your WG pack a drop pod and give the GHs and BCs some transpo. Drop the Long Fangs and Dred, take a cheaper HQ that can lead the troops and that should get you started on a great list.

 

At this point if you have no more questions about how your units work or gear, just post what you have to work with, meaning the models you own, in the army list section and we can help you from there.

 

WG Vrox.

[Grey Mage]

A Wolf Gaurd pack can be effective in a footslogging army, but only if you give them the heavy weapon options whenever you can. CML or AC doesnt seem to matter much, but one needs to be able to use them in every turn in every phase in order to give yourself the best chance to earn back their points. Theyve got alot of potential, dont waste it!

 

As for the Missile Tank of death... yeah, it can be a killer. I suggest a landspeeder with multimelta for tank hunting, or a pair of attack bikes. Its always worked well for me.

 

And finally, try to expand your troops a bit. More Grey Hunters for firesupport, and with some close combat upgrades... atleast a powerweapon for starters, or a fist. Troops have always helped a guy carry the day in warhammer, but the point is emphasized in 5th edition.

 

Edit: BTW, I think taking a vendread at 1k is actually a good idea. It allows you to take a good support unit instead of an extra HQ when the points are tight. Lascannon dreads are expensive though, and Ive never been a fan of a twinlinked las on a vendread.