Pop goes the Predator

[LoneSniperSG]

So I don't feel I have been faring too well as of late.

 

I just joined up with a new gaming group. They're a cool bunch of guys, for sure. Never overly anal about things unless it's clearly stated in the main rules.

 

This isn't so much a battle report as it is a means to try an analyze what the hell it is I am doing wrong. Maybe someone with an intimate knowledge of the workings of a Space Wolves army can help me.

 

I've been suffering some rather demoralizing losses to my ranks in the last three games though. I chalk up the first two as rusted experience, but tonight was really bad. I focused my army on the infantry. I had 3 squads of 10 Grey Hunters (one with a Rune Priest) and 2 of 10 Blood Claws (One with the Wolf Lord), a pack of 4 BC Bikes with a biker Battle Leader and his Fenrisian Wolf to add their strength. Behind all this a Predator Anni with heavy Bolter sponsons and a Whirly-wind. All infantry units were kitted out with the maximum amount of gear available, minus grenades.

 

I started the game with two Grey Hunter squads on the table, one Blood Claws pack, the bike pack and the two tanks. Dice rolls left me going 3rd of 4.

 

First turn saw my Whirlwind shaken. "Ok, they'll recover next turn, I hope." And little else came at my forces in the way of fire. I spread out my infantry to form a troop shield around my entire deployment zone, and pushed the middle Greys into the area in front of me, between two pieces of cover. This left the right flank Grey Hunters and Priest facing Ultramarines and the left flank Blood Claws and Wolf Lord facing Eldar.

 

Eldar Eldar. Freaking annoying Avatar of Khaine and two squads of Striking Scorpions. By Turn two I found Khaine-y and an Ultra Ironclad Dread getting closer to my troops. The Dread fired over my right Greys and scored a penetrating hit, wrecking the artillery. I rushed my Greys at the Dreadnought, and my Blood Claws at an idle but exposed Khaine, then directed my Anni's fire at a distant War Walker.

 

I only got one wound on the Avatar and the Dreadnought was shaken by my Grey's pfist after a failed round of plasma shooting.

 

The Scorpions shot forward to reinforce the Avatar and surrounded my troops. My Wolf Lord narrowly dodged Khaine's flaming sword, and the entire pack exacted only few casualties against the Scorpions before succuming to the sudden crowded brawl. Meanwhile the Predator suffered a bright lance strike that left its crew shaken, and a biker died from another bright lance strike.

 

My bikes now took to the charge and moved forward, but were unable to do anything due to the combat with the Dread.

 

At this time, reserves entered. A Rhino moved onto the field, and the last Grey Hunters squad came in right beside it. (I should point out that at this point, I was informed that loaded Rhinos had to be deployed straight away and couldn't be used as reserves. I wasn't aware of this and I kind of question it.) The covered Hunters now moved in front of the Predator and took up a defensive line and shot at the nearest Scorpon squad, felling only one of the cursed aliens. The reinforcing Grey hunters shot up the nearest Ultramarines squad as soon as they deployed, and immediately made a dash to the Ultras, locking into a close combat charge that felled two soldiers.

 

The Dreadnought bashed aside nine of my Grey Hunters, leaving the Priest and a remaining fist-wielder to fall back 5 inches.

 

At this point, I was already getting irritated. This was made only worse when Khaine decided to melt my Predator, while the Scorpions charged my Grey Hunters and locked into CC with them, killing all of them in a brutal melee. GUR!

 

The Dreadnought now turned its sight to my Bikers and charged them, suffering a disabled weapon by a thump from the squad's Pfist. The Grey Hunnters continued their combat with the outmatched Ultramarines and cut down all but four of their number.

 

The Grey Hunters continued their combat with the Ultras, felling another marine, while the Dreadnought crushed a bike and pummeled the Fenrisian wolf, forcing the Battle Leader and the remaining biker to retreat two inches.

 

The Eldar now turned their attention away from the Space Wolves, and focused their efforts on the Chaos Space marines present across the field.

 

The Ultramarines also directed their attentions on the Chaos Marines, but with two units tangled up in melee, the Space Wolves were not ignored. The Grey hunters mercilessly cut down the last sons of Guilliman they had attacked, while the single survivng Grey Hunter from another squad darted out from behind the ruined Whirlwind and took a shot at a lone Ultramarines scout, but failed to land any significant damage. The Bikes now found their morale restored and took to battle once again, speeding forward around cover to fire on the Ultramarines scouts, felling three of them.

 

The Avatar of Khaine now focused his wrath on the Wolf Guard Battle Leader, incinerating him with Wailing Doom. (This REALLY ticked me off.)

 

Here the game stopped. It was now abotu 4:30 in the morning and I was probably the only person who didn't have work or anything that morning. So here I am, writing about my night of gaming.

 

Seriously.. what the hell is going on? I thought for certain I had made good choices in army selection, but four things were just wiped out without ANY competition whatsoever. No armor saves, no nothing. This particular game had me facing another Assault-y army of Chaos, a shooty army of Eldar and a shooty army of Ultramarines. But with this group, anything is possible. The Chaos player also has Daemons, Tau and Orks. The Ultramarine player is just beginning, but the guy who supplied his army and helpful advice to the novice has atleast one other army.

 

Next time I am not taking any tanks. No transports, exept maybe a drop pod or two. Infantry and fast attack only. I'll simply just use my Long Fangs for heavy support, because infantry seem to be a thousand times tougher and more destructive than a heavily armored battle machine loaded with large weapons.

 

Honestly, is there some secret to a Wolves army that I missed? Is there some reason why I never get to use ANY of my tanks for more than one freaking turn? $40 for a box and 165 points are starting to take their toll here. Watching it blow up without a fight is aggravating.

[kanaellars]

Personally, except to get my troops into position, I mainly ignore Space Wolf armor. I normally have 2 rhinos on the field (mobile walls/terrain pieces if needed, or for a last turn run at an objective loaded with Grey Hunters.) They stay at the back until I need them.

 

I also field 1 Razorback with 1 of my Long Fang packs. I equip it with a heavy bolter (LFs are my anti-tank unit, so they are weak against an infantry rush). The Razorback stays back with the Fangs as defense.

 

I will also OCASSIONALLY field a Land Raider, just because they are fun and actually one of the hardest vehicles out there.

 

Other than that though, SW vehicles arnt worth it to me.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

you appear to have used you combat troops vs enemy combat guys and your shooters against shooters, very poor choice imo

What you should have done is had the 2 grey hunters squads rip the avatar from afar, they could handle the eventual assault that would have come remember if your opponent has an avatar your best chances are with high number of shots.

i would have had the blood claws charge and run full pace at the smurfs and your predator firing all guns at the dread.

if it was the 3 las can type you should of had an average of 2.1 shots hitting and an average of 1.06 penetrating hits on it, giving you a 50% chance to do enough damage to the dread that he doesn't need to be worried about, if you had moved the pred 6" then that would of dropped to a 10% to hurt the dread.

 

Now my turn 2 the damage should have been 1 dead dread, now with your 2 grey hunter squads yo move them back, as each time you measure the distance between you and the avatar for shooting you can figure out the correct amount to fall back,

assuming you manage 1 turn at full range and 2 turns at rapid fire range, with the avatar running this would allow from 2 gh squads 8+8+16+16+16+16 bolter shots and 4 plasma shots and 4 meltagun shots, giving you an average of 53.3 bolter hits, 2.7 plasma hits and 2.7 meltgun hits causing 9 wounds at 3+save and 4.05 4+ invulnerable saves causing 5 wounds with average rolls killing the avatar quite well considering he only has 1 less then that, now that means the flank facing eldar has a full squad of scorpions left to charge your 2 grey hunter squads and lord.... would you be worried seriously? now your blood claws are moving an average of 9.5 "a turn and once they hit the smurfs, bye bye smurfs, now sure you may loose your pred to that war walker....so everything else is now in combat ready to do sweeping advances in a circular motion around the board, and once your reinforcements show, reinforce your guys or start a 3rd wave of assault massacre.

 

you just had your army taking on the wrong stuff thats all.

[Yeti]

Don't get discouraged LoneSniper, we all have bad runs. The important thing is to get past them and get back on the winning side.

 

As to your particular situation ... Haakon made some good suggestions. Having faced both recently, I know how tough Avatars and Ironclads can be and taking them on with CC troops is not the solution.

 

The other problem I see, you have two tanks and they're both very dangerous. But with the new LOS rules, they're also very vulnerable and with nothing else to attract enemy AT firepower ... well they get all the attention. If you want to go mechanised, go big. The more targets on the table, the better and it will force your opponent to either spread out his firepower. Also, I've never been a fan of the Lascannon/HBolter configuration ... you're almost always wasting some of your shooting ... either you're using a lascannon to take out troops, or you're scratching the paint on a tank with the HBolters.

 

Also ...

All infantry units were kitted out with the maximum amount of gear available, minus grenades.

Not a very good approach in my opinion (and it's only my opinion). Once again, you're wasting equipment you've paid and diminishing the effectiveness of the unit in most situations. Remember the old saying "Jack of all trades, master of none". You've got plenty of units, give each a specific role on the battlefield and equip them to do that role. With the points you save trading in un-needed equipment ... reinforce other units or add more units.

[Long Fang]

At this time, reserves entered. A Rhino moved onto the field, and the last Grey Hunters squad came in right beside it. (I should point out that at this point, I was informed that loaded Rhinos had to be deployed straight away and couldn't be used as reserves. I wasn't aware of this and I kind of question it.)

 

I can find nothing in the reserves or transport vehicles section of the rulebook to support this. Unless it was a mission specific rule (Which you should have been informed of before game started) then as far as I can tell they are wrong.

 

Long Fang

[Grey Mage]

The reason your tanks are getting shaken up is because they are targets. Long fangs may work better for you in the end true.

 

On the other hand the key to armor survival is twofold: infantry support and target saturation. There comes a point where you have to much for your enemy to target it all and they have to prioritize their shooting. Ive often heard that a vindicators primary job is not to kill things, but to keep getting hit so your rhinos can find their targets.

 

Its true.

 

If you place your emphasis on infantry thats all well and good... but in order to keep your armor alive you must have enough of it to not be overwhelmed immediately. Thus a balance needs to be struck. I find that in any size game of 750 or above the following is the best way to make a balanced army list:

 

Every 500pts sees a unit of troops. The troops are the first priority for choices when there is a remainder *so IE 2 troops at 750*.

Every 500pts sees 80pts devoted to HQs. That gives an average of 120pts per leader. If they are not used here those points can go elsewhere.

And finally every 500pts leaves 175pts-200pts for support. Support is broken into range support and FA support, with a 3:2 ration of ranged to fast.

 

Some units provide both- such as the venerable dreadnaught wich gets HQ points and provides ranged support.

 

Armor ratios- For every vehicle under armor 12, have a vehicle of AV 12 or more. So the dreadnaught lets you take a whirlwind, the landspeeder squadron needs a predator, and so on. Some support doesnt have an AV... such as long fangs, and attack bikes. In this case you have to make a judgement call- are these units scary enough to take your enemies fire off your tanks? You can ask the same question about your packs... do they intimidate? As much fun as a cheap unit of ten bloodclaws is, a unit of 15 is better... and fifteen of them with a terminator wolf gaurd is enough to make anyone go "what are those?" as they try to figure out how theyre going to kill something like that. These units can confuse your enemy and many players will screw up their target priority with this.

 

Your group may be full of experianced players. It sounds like they are in general laid back, multitalented and experianced with more than one army... and thus theyre going to be tough. Very tough. Try to keep your cool and remember that every time you get your ass kicked its karma for when you kick theirs. Its also a damn good chance of learning how too.

 

For instance, your shooty eldar friend? A few things to note- a WGBL with thunderhammer, Storm shield, and wolf tooth necklace runes all of 100pts eh? And that avatar runs a bit over 150... and the wolf gaurd is easily as destructive. Both have four attacks, both ignore armor, and both hit the other on 3+s. You have the better save, as his will be 4+, and after round one you should strike at equal iniatives.... Same # of attacks, no instant death for either, but four wounds to 2. Soften him up with a few lascannons -if you have the time and his tanks arent a piority.

 

Another thing you can try out against shooty eldar- Terminator Pack Leaders. Theyll have 2 or three wolves a turn by absorbing firepower that comes your way. Depending on how your feelng throw a storm shield and CCW of some sort on them, or go CCW + Ranged. Theyll have someone vs dark reapers, theyll help against shuriken, in fact the only thing that can peirce their armor is starcannons and brightlances. Many eldar players have reduced their inventory of starcannons with its reduction to two shots and most have found that str 8 does not make the brightlance significantly more effective... so there are more str 6 weapons and missile launchers to be found on the fields these days. Terminators, especially OUR terminators can shrug these weapons off. Dont forget your runic charms.

 

Remember, striking scorpions are one of about four units in the army that have a 3+, and they are still T3. Their strength lies in sheer number of attacks, much like bloodclaws and their higher iniative. Soften with shooting when you can and try to break them within a turn. Best case scenario? Trim them down to 8, take the charge with bloodclaws, and rip them to shreds on the countercharge. - Or hit them with a vindicator, that always works too.

 

Sure, thats unit specific, but Im trying to show some other ideas on how to deal with what your seeing. Take it in stride, adapt how you can, and keep going. Those kinds of groups are hard to find... Id give alot to have one in my area.

[LoneSniperSG]

I understand what you guys are saying about the tanks, but I figured the Whirly would atleast do better than it did. I didn't intend to move it anywhere.

 

So, if I want to run armor, I gotta go full rake? 1850 points makes that kind of hard. I may be better off just loading up on troops like I said before.

 

Another problem I have is, I do pay attention to what's going on, but when it gets to my turn I almost get "board fright". I look at what's going on and I just kind of go blank in the head.

[Yeti]

I understand what you guys are saying about the tanks, but I figured the Whirly would atleast do better than it did. I didn't intend to move it anywhere.

Unless it was totally out of sight of everything, you can't really expect a whirlwind to last long ... especially against eldar. MEQ armies can afford to ignore it, it's not AP3. But 3+ eldar are few and far between and when you can wipe out a squad of aspect warriors with a single shot ... the player pays attention. Add to that a multitude of S6+ weaponry, that whirly is toast as soon as it sticks out it's nose.

 

Another problem I have is, I do pay attention to what's going on, but when it gets to my turn I almost get "board fright". I look at what's going on and I just kind of go blank in the head.

Only experience can get you over that ... so get out there and play!

[Wolfside]

i'd flex my massive muscles

[LoneSniperSG]

i'd flex my massive muscles

 

... What? What good would that do?

[LPetersson]

The others have given you some great advice, so I'll just add a bit...

 

Taking on 3 armies is, IMO, harder than one army, because you simply don't know what you'll be near.

 

But for 1v1 games, I usually first decide whether to go Mech/shooty/assaulty and then build my army around that.

And if you bring vehicles, more is always more.

Against Eldar? 3 Whirlwinds can so easily ruin his day.

Or three bare bones predators? At first the guy will ignore them, but when his avatar suddenly has to take 4 or 5 saves he'll reconsider...

 

I know I'm alone in this, but at 60 points for a barebones predator, I really can't justify not filling out my heavy support slots if I haven't already.

 

Also, bikers are great, but I find they work best when they're full (8) and with either a WGBL or WGPL (Or both if you have the points) and use them to charge anything that has Furious Charge (Harlequins/Striking Scorpions). Deny them the +1S and they'll fold...

 

I like to provide my enemy with a target rich environment. They usually don't focus fire enough to really hurt anything, and in turn 2 I usually bring the pain. Or at least a slight rash.

 

Post some Battle Reports (With Pictures, please :P) of your other battles and let's see how you fare...

[LoneSniperSG]

Hm.. three Anni's sounds fun.. possibly toss in a Vindy or Whirly with them.

 

I guess the one thing that irritated me most was that all three of my tanks were immediately pounced on, while an Ultramarines Whirlwind, Eldar Wave Serpent and Chaos Defiler all made it to the end of the game.

 

I really do want to try running an infantry only army atleast once before I try running tanks again. Any reccomendations for trimming the gear on my troops then? I'm able to actually work on them tomorrow.

[WG Vrox]

I think it would also help us if you posted your army list. I would like to see what you had to work with.

 

WG Vrox

[LoneSniperSG]

Good old Vrox, always requesting a list.

 

 

HQ

 

1 Wolf Lord - Belt of Russ, Bolter, MC power axe, runic charm, wolf pelt, talisman, necklace, Frags - 157

 

1 Rune Priest - Runic charm, wolf pelt, talisman, plasma pistol, rune staff

 

1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader - Bike, bolter, power sword, wolf pelt, wolf tail talisman, melta bombs, Fenrisian Wolf

 

TROOPS

 

10 Blood Claws - 9x Bolt Pistol, 8x CCW, Flamer, Fist, Power Weapon, Frags, Rhino

 

10 Blood Claws - 9x Bolt Pistol, 8x CCW, Flamer, Fist, Power Weapon, Frags (Wolf Lord attatched)

 

10 Grey Hunters - 8x CCW, 7x Bolter, 2x Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, Power Weapon, Meltagun

 

10 Grey Hunters - 8x CCW, 7x Bolter, 2x Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, Power Weapon, Meltagun

 

10 Grey Hunters - 8x CCW, 7x Bolter, 2x Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, Power Weapon, Plasma gun (Rune Priest attatched)

 

FAST ATTACK

 

4 Blood Claw bikers - Fist, Power weapon, Flamer (Battle Leader attatched)

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

Predator Annihilator - Heavy Bolter sponsons

 

Whirlwind - Pintle Storm Bolter

[WG Vrox]

Good old Vrox, always requesting a list.

lol, what can I say, it that song "Let's start at the very begining a very good place to start, when you need to bash heritics heads in it starts with your L I S T, L I S T .

 

 

yep, I agree with GreyMage, your maxed out on your units and with foot sloggin your enemy gets to call the shots on when to engage, making your list slow to develop your tactics. This with not enough range support to buy time for your troops to start working their magic.

 

I suggest you pick one unit that your going to Max, give em a Drop Pod, make sure your HQ with the Belt is with them or even better yet grab a SS and pay for the Drop Pod. Put these guys on a flank cause there not going to get support anytime soon. but if you feel the need to cause chaos, drop right in the middle baby.

 

Keep the pack with the PG and 1 foot sloggin have them guard a home or close objective. The other pack needs a Rhino and drop their bolters to BP keep 1 PP, 1PF and Melta and this is your assult units which will usually be needed to reinforce your Drop Pod pack.

 

If any list is in need of OBEL scouts it's this one. unless you are wanting to keep some sort of story fluff, drop one of your GH squads and round out your list with OBEL scouts and 2 ABs with MM.

 

Nothing else needs to be changed cause now your calling the shots on when and where your troops are going to hit, you got some anti tank that needs to be delt with leaving your troops to get where they need to be and that is in the enemies face asap, only list I would not rush forward on would be orcs. Even then you will want to focus on a flank and pivot on your dug in troops.

 

WG Vrox.

[Grey Mage]

Well for an infantry only list Id say go with the following:

Drop a plasma pistol in the two squads that dont have the plasma gun, trim the wolf lords belt of russ to a stormshield *displacing the bolter*. That nets you 34pts.

Consider droping the mastercrafting on the power axe and upgrade it to a frost axe. Better wounding, and ten points cheaper. 44pts total.

Dropping the whirlwind nets you another 95, for a total of 139, with the predator that leaves us at 284pts up.

I see a rhino... yoink, 319pts.

 

So how about a squad of five long fangs, whose base price is 108... two lascannons, two missile launchers.... 218pts.

And a pair of multimelta attack bikes, running 100pts.

 

That leaves us 1 pt under.... give your biker gaurd a frag grenade. Always worth it just in case.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

Hi this is what I would do!

 

1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader - storm shield, frost axe, runic charm, wolf pelt, cyclone missile launcher, tactical dreadnaught armor, necklace - 153

 

1 Rune Priest - Runic charm, wolf pelt, frost blade, rune staff, chooser of the slain - 133

 

1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader - Bike, plasma pistol, frost sword, wolf pelt, melta bombs 118

 

TROOPS

 

10 Blood Claws - 9x Bolt Pistol, 8x CCW, Flamer, Fist, Power Weapon, Frags, Rhino - 195

 

10 Blood Claws - 9x Bolt Pistol, 8x CCW, Flamer, Fist, Power Weapon, Frags (rune priest attached) - 160

 

10 Grey Hunters - 9x CCW, 9x Bolter, Power Weapon, Meltagun - 199

 

10 Grey Hunters - 9x CCW, 9x Bolter, Power Weapon, Meltagun - 199

 

10 Grey Hunters - 9x CCW, 7x Bolter, 2x Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, Plasma gun (WGBL attached) - 224

 

FAST ATTACK

 

4 Blood Claw bikers - Fist, Power weapon, Flamer (Battle Leader attached) - 146

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

Predator Annihilator - Heavy Bolter sponsons - 130

 

Whirlwind - 85

 

=1742 so far, you didn't say points so ill assume it's 1850

 

so with the last 108 points you could either add a biker and a predator destructor with heavy bolters at 105pts

or

take away the power fist from the bikers and add 3 attack bikes @ -12+120=108

or

take away the power weapon from the bikers and add a vindicator for those pesky smurfs

or

take away the melta bombs from your wgbl on bike and add 5 scouts with 2pp 1 mg and 1 pw with 3 points to spare.

or

take away the meltabombs from the lord the power fist from the bikes and mount a autocannon instead of TLLC on your destructor and use the 170 points to put in a venerable dreadnaught with assault cannon extra armor and heavy flamer for first turn rights!

 

the choice is yours!

hope this helps!

[Decoy]

As a point of reference, when facing off against three other armies, there's only one thing you can really do; Single out one enemy army, COMPLETELY, and decimate them.

 

I think that part of the problem you suffered was that you drew the wrath (or had the baleful gaze of the other players drawn) to yourself. When facing down two armies (presuming the Chaos guy was attacking the Ultras mostly), the first and best thing you can do to ensure your survivability is to consolidate your forces into a compact fighting block, with one or two units being able to countercharge every one unit that assaults you. This makes you moderately succeptible to template weapons, however, so take good care to be in cover the best you can to avoid Plasma or other AP 3 blast and template weapons. With only average luck, I've staved off Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Chaos all at once (Eldar and Dark Eldar assaulting, Chaos shooting).

 

It's just a matter of consolidation. Spread your efforts, and you draw the fire of two whole armies, which statistically will result in bad things for you. As the enemy comes to you (if they do), move your block-o-army forward and assault EN MASSE. No one-squad one-assaults here; assault with everything that can, and keep the rest bundled for a counterassault.

 

In terms of shooting, being Space Wolves, it's hard to advance under a hail of AP 3+ weaponry without taking significant casualties, which is where the blending of your units into what effectively looks like ONE FREAKIN' BIG UNIT is important. Not only does it intimidate the enemy (sometimes inadvertantly drawing MORE fire your way), but if your army is making a run straight at one enemy army and one enemy army alone, one, if not both of your other opponents will sit back, think "Wolves are preoccupied elsewhere, I can focus my shots on the other guys."

 

A further benefit of blocking up; take your Bikers, for instance. Sure, if they move slow, they're losing their main benefit and become targets, but which would YOU rather shoot at? The 15-man Blood Claw squad running headlong towards you, or bikers that are moving at Infantry speed alongside them? Perhaps my personal priorities are shot, but I'd shoot at the Blood Claws.

 

Finally, to top off the list of benefits to blocking up; Screeing Cover Save. Keep a unit spread across the front line of your army and watch as the squads behind make 4+ after 4+ that would otherwise be denied to them. Now, a smart opponent would throw down fire into the first rank of troops, which can swiftly render this tactic ineffectual, but with a tank or two moving up in front of them to absorb most of the small arms fire, you swiftly end up with a hard core of units that are reasonably screened and moving relatively swiftly.

 

A major downside, of course, is if you're Running your stuff, there's really no reliable way to keep them together. Just remember, though, that you don't HAVE to take a Run move, and if you do, I'm not sure (READ: CHECK THE RULEBOOK YOURSELF) if you HAVE to move the full distance.

 

A lot of what went wrong in your game, I think, can be attributed to tactics, though for sure, the advice of the others on the thread holds incredible merit as well. I suggest you try to work with what you've got, and tweak and experiment. Hell, the only reason I have THIS advice is that playing as 13th Company in a Mostly-Shooty edition tends to result in needing LOTS of tweaks and tactics alteration.

 

That all said, good luck and kill some Eldar for me.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

yeah thats a good point, fighting on 2 fronts shame on you, thats how the nazis lost the war, you should learn from their evil mistakes.

[WG Vrox]

I think that part of the problem you suffered was that you drew the wrath (or had the baleful gaze of the other players drawn) to yourself. When facing down two armies

 

Oh this was a 3v3 game, no wonder. Won't play them, horrible game type and one that was never designed into the system. I thought it was you vs. them, which in itself can be nasty if they work well together, most times they don't though. In 3v3 1 person is always getting the worse end of the deal regardless of tactics. But if you must play them, Decoy makes some great points.

 

WG Vrox.

[Grey Mage]

Actually Vrox it was 4on all. Ultras, CSM, Eldar, and SW. Still, it can be rough in that kind of enviroment, and I have to agree with alot of what decoy was saying.

[WolfScoutHolger]

My new fave unit is 5 wolf scouts in a LS storm. A 24 inch moving open topped skimmer that you can assault out of carrying a squad of bs 4/ ws 4 scouts can be a scary thing to long range heavy weapon groups that can also pop tanks.

[LoneSniperSG]

As a point of reference, when facing off against three other armies, there's only one thing you can really do; Single out one enemy army, COMPLETELY, and decimate them.

 

Yes.. if I had made a full-blown assault into the Ultramarines they wouldn't have been there for very long.

 

Finally, to top off the list of benefits to blocking up; Screeing Cover Save. Keep a unit spread across the front line of your army and watch as the squads behind make 4+ after 4+ that would otherwise be denied to them. Now, a smart opponent would throw down fire into the first rank of troops, which can swiftly render this tactic ineffectual, but with a tank or two moving up in front of them to absorb most of the small arms fire, you swiftly end up with a hard core of units that are reasonably screened and moving relatively swiftly.

 

I swear to the Emperor this was overlooked a couple times. I remember thinking "Where the hell is that cover save for shooting through THIS squad?"

 

A major downside, of course, is if you're Running your stuff, there's really no reliable way to keep them together. Just remember, though, that you don't HAVE to take a Run move, and if you do, I'm not sure (READ: CHECK THE RULEBOOK YOURSELF) if you HAVE to move the full distance.

 

Interesting you mention this, because the dear eldar player would pipe up every five minutes and say "Oh, you know you can run your troops instead of moving 6" every time." Eventually I just told him to shut up.

 

I'm also at the disadvantage of not having my own rulebook. Something I hope to fix this weekend.

 

A lot of what went wrong in your game, I think, can be attributed to tactics, though for sure, the advice of the others on the thread holds incredible merit as well. I suggest you try to work with what you've got, and tweak and experiment. Hell, the only reason I have THIS advice is that playing as 13th Company in a Mostly-Shooty edition tends to result in needing LOTS of tweaks and tactics alteration.

 

That all said, good luck and kill some Eldar for me.

 

Gotta fill up my rack first. My Wolf Lord wants vengeance on that stupid cheesy Avatar.

[Grey Mage]

And as we all know, ultramarines love taking it in the face.... and thus he would have enjoyed himself too. Live and learn!

[Valerian]

Not wanting to beat the proverbial dead horse too much, but 3 vs. 3 or 4 vs. 4 games like this really don't work well. It's just like playing one of those RTS computer games, like StarCraft, with three or more players. The forces that run into each other first will beat on each other and attrit each others' forces, while the one that gets left alone builds/maintains his or her combat power until he or she comes through and sweeps the other armies aside at the end of the game.

 

If multiple players really want to be a part of the game, then instead of a free-for-all, make it a game of alliances with two clear sides pitted against one another. I also recommend not worrying too much about trying to justify the alliance, and just enjoy a more balanced game.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian