Colrouphobic Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 So I'm putting up the latest commissioned work I have completed (that I can show, and that has some bearing to the B&C) It's a poster for a Swedish gaming-club. An Ork launching at a Crimson Fist that in turn is giving some Emperor-love with his Bolter... Text omited from this image. Roughly five hours work. http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/colrouphobic/Commissioned%20Work/OrkvsMarine_1-1_forumdisplayversion.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Great job! But where's the ork's blood as the fired bolts explode? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1929688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I like it, but I will just say this; look at all the artwork from GW of Orkz, they come off as a constantly active species, always moving. My point? The arms and whatnot seem right, but the torso and main of him seems a little stationary, not like he's leaning in to hack him, like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1929694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colrouphobic Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Great job! But where's the ork's blood as the fired bolts explode? He isn't hit yet? :P Or how about- he missed? I like it, but I will just say this; look at all the artwork from GW of Orkz, they come off as a constantly active species, always moving. My point? The arms and whatnot seem right, but the torso and main of him seems a little stationary, not like he's leaning in to hack him, like that. He isn't leaning, he's coming from a sprint, n fact, he is dropping downwards, which is why his legs are as stretched as they are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1929761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Great job! But where's the ork's blood as the fired bolts explode? He isn't hit yet? :P Or how about- he missed? I like it, but I will just say this; look at all the artwork from GW of Orkz, they come off as a constantly active species, always moving. My point? The arms and whatnot seem right, but the torso and main of him seems a little stationary, not like he's leaning in to hack him, like that. He isn't leaning, he's coming from a sprint, n fact, he is dropping downwards, which is why his legs are as stretched as they are. Crimson Fist? He misses at that range...he's a stormtrooper! Hehe. Makes more sense that he's coming in from a sprint, dirty greenskin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1929778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colrouphobic Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Great job! But where's the ork's blood as the fired bolts explode? He isn't hit yet? :P Or how about- he missed? I like it, but I will just say this; look at all the artwork from GW of Orkz, they come off as a constantly active species, always moving. My point? The arms and whatnot seem right, but the torso and main of him seems a little stationary, not like he's leaning in to hack him, like that. He isn't leaning, he's coming from a sprint, n fact, he is dropping downwards, which is why his legs are as stretched as they are. Crimson Fist? He misses at that range...he's a stormtrooper! Hehe. Makes more sense that he's coming in from a sprint, dirty greenskin. Cheers, think of it more as a "first bullet in a burst as the CF is getting suprise-attacked" :tu: Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1929828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeffWolf Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 how about the ork is getting blown back by the impact...yet..to..come. but its good ye. however, it somehow seems as if the crimson fist isnt totally leaning towards the ork and imho it looks as if the bullet has whizzed or is whizzing past him. nice job though - keep it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1930030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The quality is good. Although somehow the image looks... static, if you get me. As in it looks more like a photo than a "moving" picture. The ork should be swinging that axe not holding it in midair -_- And that marine should be shooting holes in that xeno! why isn't he? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1930036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeffWolf Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 i agree with hubernator, thats what i was trying to say - apologies. tbh its 40k isnt it? there should be ragged chunks flying everywhere and that crimson fist should be exacting vengeance for rynns world by beating seven bells out of the orks non existent brain. good overall - i like it -_- partly cos i do crimson fists Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1930040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colrouphobic Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Cheers guys, about the static sensation, If I would have made it less static, it would mean more bodyparts throughout the image, which is good, but as it where, this is a poster, and there is actually supposed to be text in the entire white area of the image (inbetween and above the characters), plus one line in the black area in the bottom. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1930095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Why didn't you say that then? :P This'll be good for a poster, no question :D EDIT: just reread your first post. Yes you did say it was a poster... :) whoops... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1930096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I like the image a lot, it has a lot of character to it, although it has some bad parts. The bad parts i feel are the fact that the Crimson Fist is just over a meter away and seems to have missed, i can't see that happening at all, i think the Ork being wounded would give the feel of something special as the wound wouldn't necessarily kill the Ork and would add an element of 'would he/wouldn't he' to the picture. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1930099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colrouphobic Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Regarding Static look, This is supposed to be a poster, with text. some restrictions appear because of this. After asking client I got the "go" on showing the entire poster, with text (in swedish) on forums. Hope this clears up some of the issues you guys have with it. http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/colrouphobic/Commissioned%20Work/Done-with-text-50.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1930520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin .44 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I really like this poster. when I first looked at it, the only thing I truly noticed was how casual the CF looked. I imagine him muttering to himself " :cuss :) :( :cuss :angry: :cuss :cuss things!!!!!!!!" and the ork thinking "well this was a bad idea." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1930957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Even a poster can have dynamic movement. Here's a quick sketch i threw together in Photoshop during lunch: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn221/artrelegis/sketch.jpg I would add more bodies in the background too but you get the idea. Dynamics to show they're interacting. Yours look separated and not at all engaging each other. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1931034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureGrim Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Nicely donely Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1931049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colrouphobic Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Even a poster can have dynamic movement. Here's a quick sketch i threw together in Photoshop during lunch: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn221/artrelegis/sketch.jpg I would add more bodies in the background too but you get the idea. Dynamics to show they're interacting. Yours look separated and not at all engaging each other. DV8 Thats all nice and dandy DV8, but you forget things like- Clients wishes, Budget, and Time. Clients wishes: BOTH characters need to be seen from the front. Both need to be attaking, one with a choppa or similar, one with a bolter. Budget: didn't allow for additional characters or more elaborate background. Time: There was a timelimit when I needed to have this done before it goes to the printers. If I would have been unrestrained by all of the above then I, first of all, wouldn't have made the format a "standing" A3 poster. I would have added a whole scenery in the back representing "forces" rather then individuals etc etc. Something people commonly forget about working as an illustrator is that there is no such thing as "perfect freedom", everything is dependant on Clients Wishes, Budget and Time. --------------------- Think of it like this- Lets say you would want me to do a painting/illustration for you. I show you some examples of illustrations and you go: "wow, thats what I want" So you ask me to do a huge mural-esque painting of your favourite motief. I will then tell you that something that size will cost you XXXXx USD and take XXX days. At this point, _you_ as the client will start looking in your wallet and at your calendar and go:"..uhm, yeah, maybe XXx USD? and in XX days?" And here we will either decide that you should ask someone else to do the job, let it take the time I stated and for the budget stated, or you will revise your idea and we will discuss new time and budget. --------------------- So, whereas I understand your critique, and most definately take it with me (I take all critique in to learn more) you also have to realize that working for so long as I have done with illustration, I have to know a bit more then just the basics on composition (where static-vs-dynamism is included) and layout (where clients wishes, time and Art Direction is included), plus also know that sometimes they clash and it is my job to make the best of it. :P On the upside, now you made me spill some beans on how I work- My interest lie in the clients best interest. Which mean I have to juggle composition and what "works" with wishes, budget and time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1931199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Oh I fully understand, as I am a Concept Artist myself, having to juggle between deadlines, your artistic vision for a project, your clients wishes, etc, as well as having to meet criteria. I still stand (and this is from a personal view, mind you, I'm not saying you did it wrong or that it should be changed), by the fact that it could be a little more dynamic, and still meet the criteria (and this is where back and forth thumbnails with a client really plays a critical step). Because to be honest, as an Illustrator I would never simply dive into illustration without first doing thumbnails to ensure that the final piece is exactly what the client wants. It's not as simple as: "I want a piece, and I want it to look like this and this and such and such, and to be this size in this medium." "Ok, it'll cost you X dollars and take Y time." "KAY!" Doing so just means that if it's not what they want, you're back at the drawing board and your time and hard work goes wasted. I'm not approaching this from a "you did this and this wrong" perspective, don't get me wrong (and in hindsight should've mentioned this in my first post). It's a lovely digital painting, but I'm approaching it more from a "these two characters are clearly dueling, but aren't posed to be interacting with each other at all" perspective. It's sort of like the poses are halfway between attacking each other, and from being elements taken from two different images and juxtaposed together, and you end up with what looks like an awkward And the bottom line really is that we're critiquing and commenting on your artwork, not the minutia involved insofar as the rest is concerned. So here I am commenting on and critiquing the artwork. Just sayin' is all. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1931260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtNACHO Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 1. ALL TACTICAL MARINES ARE RIGHT HANDED!!!!! ;) 2.Not enough anger in the Ork 3.Marines hands should be less like bear paws! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1931327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeroeightfive Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Oh I fully understand, as I am a Concept Artist myself, having to juggle between deadlines, your artistic vision for a project, your clients wishes, etc, as well as having to meet criteria. I still stand (and this is from a personal view, mind you, I'm not saying you did it wrong or that it should be changed), by the fact that it could be a little more dynamic, and still meet the criteria (and this is where back and forth thumbnails with a client really plays a critical step). Because to be honest, as an Illustrator I would never simply dive into illustration without first doing thumbnails to ensure that the final piece is exactly what the client wants. It's not as simple as: "I want a piece, and I want it to look like this and this and such and such, and to be this size in this medium." "Ok, it'll cost you X dollars and take Y time." "KAY!" Doing so just means that if it's not what they want, you're back at the drawing board and your time and hard work goes wasted. I'm not approaching this from a "you did this and this wrong" perspective, don't get me wrong (and in hindsight should've mentioned this in my first post). It's a lovely digital painting, but I'm approaching it more from a "these two characters are clearly dueling, but aren't posed to be interacting with each other at all" perspective. It's sort of like the poses are halfway between attacking each other, and from being elements taken from two different images and juxtaposed together, and you end up with what looks like an awkward And the bottom line really is that we're critiquing and commenting on your artwork, not the minutia involved insofar as the rest is concerned. So here I am commenting on and critiquing the artwork. Just sayin' is all. DV8 it is your job as an illustrator to tell the client what he wants in such a manner that he thinks its his idea. dont tell me that "oh, this is what he wanted" as an excuse for poor work. as a bit of a background; i have been working professionally for many years as both a freelance illustrator and a 9-5 graphic artist/illustrator/animator. i know my stuff. and so does DV8. what DV8 was saying is that your composition is weak at best. even non-professionals on B&C are telling you theres something wrong, when that happens, it should be a HUGE wakeup for you as an artist, be it professional or not. being able to take critisism (and building on it) is the greatest skill an artist can have. it shows how much arrogance and pride one has when they think that thier work cannot be improved or that merely because the critique came from a "nobody", it can be ignored. DV8 and i are both heavily versed in the process of art as a business. dont tell me you did thumbnails for your piece. you didnt. you have NO concept of silhouette, NO concept of depth and you definitely havent done much life drawing (which is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for any illustrator). while DV8 took a very passive and "sesame street" approach to giving criticism, i have no such subtlety. i simply hate it when an artist cannot take constructive criticism, hence my aggressive tone. i hope im not crossing a line, as this is how i talk IRL (ask DV8). i dont sugar coat anything and i don't want you to get upset. thats the thing about art, if it works, it simply works. my whole life revolves around art, and the further you study it, the less subjective it becomes. you will probably think "oh, but everyone has an opinion, art is subjective". no it isnt. anyone that has education in art (im not even talking fine art), knows this first and foremost. in short: its a poster for a local store, they probably paid you $50-200 for it. you spent 5 hours, and it shows. next time, when professionals give you criticisms, listen to them. --------------------------------------------------------- oh and for the record, DV8 can't draw a human body to save his life. LOL jk jk ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1931337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 oh and for the record, DV8 can't draw a human body to save his life. LOL jk jk :lol: Haha oh that's okay. I'll out-technical draw you any day of the week ^_^ DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1931386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colrouphobic Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 in short: its a poster for a local store, they probably paid you $50-200 for it. you spent 5 hours, and it shows. next time, when professionals give you criticisms, listen to them. I am a professional artist since 10 years. I have been freelancing for two. Just the fact that you think it is your job to force your opinion on the client so you will paint "what you want" tell me that you haven't worked that long in the business. When you work in the business of illustration you _will_ constantly meet clients that _know_ what they want. Pushing your ideas on them all the time is what will let you without work. I have work. Any critique is valuable, but your post was not critique, it was something else. It is a shame that you think, based upon one work, that I do not know what I'm doing. Working one game-projects, movie-projects and being fortunate enough to work on private, smaller, commissions like this in between, works out for me- maybe it's a formula you should try out as well? DV8's critique was not something else, it was well-founded critique, just lacked the insight into the fact that I actually DO work with thumbs, discuss with clients and follow the tenets of :Clients Wishes, Budget and Time. As you would know, working in the business, that tossing around numbers of work is frowned upon for several reasons: 1) it is a laymans way of trying to show "balls" (or something) 2) it requires skill in seeing the right prices for the right work, you failed in that so *shrugs* 3) it is a very bad sign to bring up money in such a fascion as it is not your place to disclose, it's an infantile level of trying to diminish the client and lastly, I never claimed this to be "the perfect piece". Nor have I claimed to have worked on it longer then 5 hours. I'm more then happy to take critique on the artwork, but not my working methods. Their not yours to scrutinize (especially since you don't really seem to know how it works in the illustrating part of the business). DV8 Fully understandable. I believe in complete customer communication. Client tells me what they want, I tell them time and how much, they can give me feedback on this and either we agree on something r we wont. It is that simple. Without that format, you will end up doing thumbs and thumbs and thumbs and so on, in an ever.growing spiral (experience speaks volumes on this) and that is more timeconsuming. To finish up- can we, maybe, just drop the sidetrack and keep it to the thing at hand? The Artwork? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1931387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodsbane Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Mission accomplished; that poster sold me on signing up for the tournament in question :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164132-artworkork-vs-crimson-fist-1-1/#findComment-1954742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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