Fabius Bile

[Fausto2071]

thinking of getting back to chaos after a year or so of hiatus, done nugle and slaanesh, and would like to go undivided now, I'm really interested about Fabius Bile, and would like to field him as an HQ choice so

A. is he worth it

B. what would be a good for fielding as the 'enhanced warriors'

C. want to do a large conversion of him, and am kind of thinking of using a sort of combo of FB and a Techmarine

 

what say you?

[Hobo Willie]

I hope I'm reading this wrong but his 'Rod of Torment' does not ignore armor saves. If that's the case, he might not really be worth it. Granted 5 attacks (6 on the charge) at strength 5, but a CSM/SM commander without a power weapon just seems...wrong.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

You read it right. He's not much of a combat character, and is probably best off firing his gun attached to a sonic blaster noise marine squad. the only point to him is enhanced warriors, and they are a mixed bag. Plus we arn't even sure what can be enhanced. There are plenty of threads discussion him on here and other forums.

[Mutt-Man!]

Fabius Bile is 114 cost. He has a force weapon that requires no test, the hitch is its not a power weapon. Great for sacking certain big things.

He has a nice ranged weapon, and his Inv save is great for something so cheap as an HQ. He is a fun character, trust me. He just takes a little different tactics.

 

Make him VS Khârn the Betrayer 1v1 in 10 rounds, most of the time fabius wins it. Trust me, I've checked enough to see that a 3+ save wont save a 1v1 with any T4 3+ sv HQ. Hit on 4, wound on 3, and with 6 attacks, 7 charging you are bound to wound him once and kill, and it doesnt count as a force weapon either.

 

The enhanced warriors.

 

You get fearless and +1 strength standard, sometimes +2 strength with a drawback, and another roll would be some casualties. Either way its a tactic for the melee lovers. On top of it all, you get options the other fearless troos dont get, and icons that actually boost the unit. Any icon in fact, adding versitility. Its a worthwhile addition, and with an icon they can stand along side berzerkers without feeling out-performed. Worthwhile IMO, I've used them plenty to assure me of it.

 

Fabius bile Counts-as is fine with anyone these days. Given the standard the new C:SM holds now. I personally like his backpack, would be fun if you use bits of it.

[Zhukov]

Khârn hits before Fabius, except if you have the charge. If he has the charge Khârn probably wins.

But even if you are right thats irrelevant.

 

Fabius is just not a good HtH character, nor is his shooting worth it with AP- and BS4 with a crappy range.

 

If you want melee troops, use berzerkers instead. Saver, and better most of the time too.

 

I say NO to fabius.

[Fausto2071]

mmkay thanks guys.

[davidren2401]

I would only take Fabius if I was taking standard troops with icons other then chaos glory since Enhanced makes them fearless

[Cornelias]

as some of you may remember i ran a fabius bile list for most of the last codex and some of the current, i takes a bit of thought and planning but it's a hell of a lot of fun.

 

like every is saying he's not much of a HtH fighter so it's best running a second HQ at anything over 1500 points, contrary to what others might say he can only enhance basic chaos marine squads ( no cult units, raptors, havocs etc.) and you'll want to make sure each squad you enhance has a rhino, if you roll a 6 for enhancment you'll want them in HtH as soon as possible.

 

i found that although on paper he's not as good as other IC's if you don't expect too much from him he can really surprise you from time to time, he tends to be ignored by your opponent . large 10 man squads with the icon of khorne was the most effective way i found to run them.

[Zhukov]

Lets face it, you are paying points to be able to echance marines where you also have to pay for, because he isnt worth his points for combat abilities only.

 

Well the problem ten arrises is why favour enchanted marines over Khorne berzerkers?

 

Lets assume a 10 men squad of marines:

 

150 + IoK 30 + Enchanting 30 = 210

 

Thats exactly the same as 10 berzerkers. Well then I personally favour the berzerkers over the marines in hth. On the charge berzerkers are more effective, after the charge its a bit equal. WS +1 compared with +1 strenght by then.

 

Throwing a 1 is not good, because you lose 1/3 of your squad, before you are even started. If you enchant multiple squads the risk becomes higher and higher that it happens. But if you dont take more then 1 squad, then you are paying too much for Fabius.

 

So as I see it not worth for HtH only. Of course the marines still shoot better, but you are paying many extra points to be able to compete with berzerkers in hth (which they still lose), so you probably wont shoot with them.

And because Fabius isnt cheap they should have a clear advantage over Berzerkers to be viable for me

Thats why I say NO.

[Cornelias]

like i said it's fun to use fabius bile but if your a powergamer that only worries about winning at all costs he's not for you.

 

just for the record i won 2/3 of my games using a fabius bile army and even the loses were lots of fun :(

[Zhukov]

Well most of the things I say here is so people may not go and buy things while they THINK its good, while from mathhammer perspective or whatever you wanna call, its definately not. Most of the time all the things I say here is indeed from 'powergaming' perspective. But that doesnt mean that I'm always a powergamer myself, actually thats kinda boring because then I would be using the kinda lists over and over again.

[Cornelias]

that's where i disagree, to many times i hear people opting out of things without actually giving them an extended trial run and playing it safe with a cookiecutter list. i believe every unit in our codex (aside from spawn ofc) is perfectly usable by a player who is prepared to put a bit a thought into tactics.

[Mutt-Man!]

Berzerkers dont have Meltaguns. They have to buy an icon to summon (breaking 210 as you stated), they cant have combi-weapons or flamers. The larger the unit, the less relevent the icon's cost becomes because in a squad of 20, your paying 1.5 points a model rather then 3 points a model at 10. (IF anyone ever does it)

 

Cheapest fearless troop without icons.

 

Fabius Bile is similar to having a witchblade farseer. They deal with instant deathing things pretty often when they have a 2+ armor save, except they cant Instant Death a carnifex outside synapse range like fabius can. Fabius is a different use character, and the only strength 5 "instant death" weapon in the chaos arsenal. Also a cheap 4+ inv save.

 

 

Want a type of Possessed troops (without the dumb random) with meltaguns? Icon of Tzeentch.

Want them as durable as bikes with str5/T5 troops? Icon of Nurgle.

Compete with zerkers while keeping their ranged weapon options? (including BOLTERS) Icon of Khorne.

Lastly, but not leastly Slaanesh Icon can partake a rare recieving charge initiative 5 where zerks lack initiative 5(even str5) when facing counter-melee charging armies that have fleet (waagh roll, most tyranids, most eldar).

 

It is a solid unit with a different set of uses, sure they dont charge as well as zerks, no other troops for 21 points do. Though if you want overall tactical use, the possessed pull out a higher rank then berzerkers because of meltaguns/up to 3 flame templates before charging (MASSIVE DAMAGE addition that out-shadows furious charge)

 

Give and take, could accidently kill everything in range of charge distance, so its a double edged sword of course. Land Raider transport-worthy unit none the less.

[Zhukov]

You pay for those meltaguns and larger then 10 models doesn fit into a rhino.

 

And you dont buy them for the meltaguns but for CC, thats why Fabius AND Khorne Icon not?

 

And to Spacefrisian: its not even a close call in points comparison so that 5 points for an Icon wont do it

[Spacefrisian]

Fabius Bile is similar to having a witchblade farseer. They deal with instant deathing things pretty often when they have a 2+ armor save, except they cant Instant Death a carnifex outside synapse range like fabius can. Fabius is a different use character, and the only strength 5 "instant death" weapon in the chaos arsenal. Also a cheap 4+ inv save.

 

Don't know where you got that but the 2 can't be compared, a Witchblade farseer can't perform an instant death in cc. (unless you've been cheated by a Eldar player)

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Fabius Bile is 114 cost. He has a force weapon that requires no test, the hitch is its not a power weapon. Great for sacking certain big things.

He has a nice ranged weapon, and his Inv save is great for something so cheap as an HQ. He is a fun character, trust me. He just takes a little different tactics.

 

Make him VS Khârn the Betrayer 1v1 in 10 rounds, most of the time fabius wins it. Trust me, I've checked enough to see that a 3+ save wont save a 1v1 with any T4 3+ sv HQ. Hit on 4, wound on 3, and with 6 attacks, 7 charging you are bound to wound him once and kill, and it doesnt count as a force weapon either.

 

The enhanced warriors.

 

You get fearless and +1 strength standard, sometimes +2 strength with a drawback, and another roll would be some casualties. Either way its a tactic for the melee lovers. On top of it all, you get options the other fearless troos dont get, and icons that actually boost the unit. Any icon in fact, adding versitility. Its a worthwhile addition, and with an icon they can stand along side berzerkers without feeling out-performed. Worthwhile IMO, I've used them plenty to assure me of it.

 

Fabius bile Counts-as is fine with anyone these days. Given the standard the new C:SM holds now. I personally like his backpack, would be fun if you use bits of it.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. He costs a lot more than 114 points. He also has no invul.

 

like every is saying he's not much of a HtH fighter so it's best running a second HQ at anything over 1500 points, contrary to what others might say he can only enhance basic chaos marine squads ( no cult units, raptors, havocs etc.) and you'll want to make sure each squad you enhance has a rhino, if you roll a 6 for enhancment you'll want them in HtH as soon as possible.

 

This is debateable. It says he can enhance "Chaos Space Marines". In the army list description "Chaos Space Marines" also includes chosen, bikers, and havocs. In the FAQ for the previous codex, there was a section saying he could only enhance the vanilla chaos marine squads. It does not say that in the FAQ for the current codex. There is no way to determine what he is actually allowed to enhance. Arguments for both sides are easy to find.

[Cornelias]

it's called common sense, there is only 1 army list entry for chaos space marines in the army list.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

it's called common sense, there is only 1 army list entry for chaos space marines in the army list.

 

Is it common sense that he can only enhance people on foot? Does the genetic makeup of a veteren CSM differ from that of a non vet? Does their DNA change as soon as they get on a bike or pick up a heavy weapon? No. This is your interpretation, and it is one of several. There is nothing in the actual RAW to make your common sense any more correct than sombody else's.

[Zhukov]

Yeah thats what ive been thinking too: the other units are called things like Chaos Chosen or Chaos Bikers. There is only 1 Chaos Space Marine entry.

[Cornelias]

it's called common sense, there is only 1 army list entry for chaos space marines in the army list.

 

Is it common sense that he can only enhance people on foot? Does the genetic makeup of a veteren CSM differ from that of a non vet? Does their DNA change as soon as they get on a bike or pick up a heavy weapon? No. This is your interpretation, and it is one of several. There is nothing in the actual RAW to make your common sense any more correct than sombody else's.

 

actually talking about the rules, it states he may enhance chaos space marines, and in the army list there is only 1 unit called chaos space marines. if havocs etc could be enhanced they would be listed and as they are not, i'm afraid you cannot no matter how you try and twist the words.

 

the purpose of this is for balancing issues and has nothing to do with DNA or being able to pick heavy weapons up or riding bikes.....

[Drudge Dreadnought]

it's called common sense, there is only 1 army list entry for chaos space marines in the army list.

 

Is it common sense that he can only enhance people on foot? Does the genetic makeup of a veteren CSM differ from that of a non vet? Does their DNA change as soon as they get on a bike or pick up a heavy weapon? No. This is your interpretation, and it is one of several. There is nothing in the actual RAW to make your common sense any more correct than sombody else's.

 

actually talking about the rules, it states he may enhance chaos space marines, and in the army list there is only 1 unit called chaos space marines. if havocs etc could be enhanced they would be listed and as they are not, i'm afraid you cannot no matter how you try and twist the words.

 

the purpose of this is for balancing issues and has nothing to do with DNA or being able to pick heavy weapons up or riding bikes.....

 

Yes, but the entire codex is Chaos Space Marines. And if you look in the actual unit description Chaos Space Marines includes havocs, bikes and chosen.

[Cornelias]

Yes, but the entire codex is Chaos Space Marines. And if you look in the actual unit description Chaos Space Marines includes havocs, bikes and chosen.

 

look again please......

 

 

if you look underneath the box on page 27 it clearly lists them as different units of different types with any special rules listed.

 

if you could have str 5, T 5 fearless units that moved as cavalry with the further ability to add either +1 attack, 5+ inv save, +1 ini or move upto toughness 6 do you not think more people would be using them?

 

or by your reasoning i could have str 6 possessed with a 4+ inv save as they are in the chaos marine codex?

[Mutt-Man!]

AH the old 3.5 rears its ugly brain portion again. 160 and different stats, my goof I meant Feel No Pain I guess totally forgot that's what changed the Inv save part...

 

Still, good character although not as straightforward as the rest.

 

That purple signiture makes me wanna put YES instead of NO duplicated below...

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Yes, but the entire codex is Chaos Space Marines. And if you look in the actual unit description Chaos Space Marines includes havocs, bikes and chosen.

 

look again please......

 

 

if you look underneath the box on page 27 it clearly lists them as different units of different types with any special rules listed.

 

if you could have str 5, T 5 fearless units that moved as cavalry with the further ability to add either +1 attack, 5+ inv save, +1 ini or move upto toughness 6 do you not think more people would be using them?

 

or by your reasoning i could have str 6 possessed with a 4+ inv save as they are in the chaos marine codex?

 

Hey i never said i thought that was how it should be played. All i've said is that we don't know and have no way of telling. I'm not disagreeing with your interpretation of the rules, i just want it recognized that it is only an interpretation, and different groups of people will have different ones and will play it different ways.

[eyescrossed]

Lets face it, you are paying points to be able to enchance marines where you also have to pay for, because he isnt worth his points for combat abilities only.

 

Well the problem ten arrises is why favour enchanted marines over Khorne berzerkers?

 

Lets assume a 10 men squad of marines:

 

150 + IoK 30 + Enchanting 30 = 210

 

Thats exactly the same as 10 berzerkers. Well then I personally favour the berzerkers over the marines in hth. On the charge berzerkers are more effective, after the charge its a bit equal. WS +1 compared with +1 strenght by then.

 

Throwing a 1 is not good, because you lose 1/3 of your squad, before you are even started. If you enchant multiple squads the risk becomes higher and higher that it happens. But if you dont take more then 1 squad, then you are paying too much for Fabius.

 

So as I see it not worth for HtH only. Of course the marines still shoot better, but you are paying many extra points to be able to compete with berzerkers in hth (which they still lose), so you probably wont shoot with them.

And because Fabius isnt cheap they should have a clear advantage over Berzerkers to be viable for me

Thats why I say NO.

He isn't a sorceror, he enhances them :sick:

 

I don't really mind the look of Fabius, especially if fighting orks, as he can ID lots of things like Nobz and Warbosses (unless thay're in Mega armour) because they have such crappy armour saves.