tedwin183 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 So tonight's game was a rare one. I know you've all had a game like this before; the game where you're playing a great opponent, the deployment is equal, the lists are competitive but friendly and everything is fun as heck. My opponent this week is one of my favorite people to play against, period. He plays a text book, fluffy IG army. It's a mix of about 50/50 tanks to infantry, point-wise. He won the roll-off and the game was a pitched battle, capture and control game. The deployment was pretty even across the whole deployment area and the whole game was very tactical and very, very fun. It was at 2000 points. I made a change to my list this week, however. Normally I bring Lysander at this point level. I am getting tired of running my He'stan flamer/melta spam list and thought I'd just make a neutral, friendly list. Instead of Lysander, however, I decided to give Marneus Calgar a test run. I had never played with him before. The tip of this week is based on him and what I observed and digested both during and after the game. In case you were wondering, I won the game, but it wasn't a commanding win, it was very sporty and came down to some key moves. The tip of the week: Marneus Calgar really impressed me. I don't really like many of the special characters in the new dex. I am not a fan of Khan, Cassius, Pedro or Tigurius. They just don't really fit my play style. I only really play He'stan, Lysander and once in a GREAT while, Sicarius. I never ran Calgar because I thought his 265 points to be a total waste...being more than a stock land raider. Here is the MAJOR reason why I will be taking Calgar often from now on: We all know that combat squading is a very effective way to make more scoring "units", while only paying 170 points base. However, the drawback to this is that 5 guys is much easier to whittle down and get moral checks on than a 10 man squad. Before long, you WILL fail a moral check and it'll hinder your plans. Not with Marneus. His God Of War special ability allows you to decided to pass or save moral checks, making your combat squads good to the last man. Not to mention his 6 attacks on the charge is nothing to shake a stick at. 4 wounds also is tough to deal with and eternal warrior means he's going to be around for a while. I'd say the 65 points more than Lysander is well worth his God Of War ability. It kept me completely locked in the game. Sure, no one can deny Calgar is a combat beast, but I feel his ability bestowed to the whole army is WELL worth his points, especially if you combat squad everything. It just makes too much sense not to bring him if you combat squad. Hope it helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Some of the Ultras players knew this already, but many people turn their noses up at him becaues of his cost. I agree with your opinion here mate. How did Calgar do then? Destroy anything of note? What escort did he have? I'm the kind of man who would put a Tactical with him and mobilise them in a Landraider. It's relatively cheap considering you have numbers combined with extreme combat potential from Calgar. Another alternative would be a unit of Assault Marines without jump packs. Free Rhino for another unit too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1932429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I didn't think Calgar got Eternal Warrior... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1932507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 Calgar and Lysander are the only 2 with Eternal warrior. As for answering the first poster: Calgar was escorted by 5 lightning claw assault termies in a normal land raider. I swept him and the termies up the right flank and wiped the walls with exactly 61 guardsmen before I lost my first assault termie. I lost a couple termies after the 61 guardsman was killed because he counter-moved with a plasgun-heavy squad and got some good shots off. The points total for that squad was outrageous, but I generally theme my armies around a main, spearhead unit. It turned out to be very effective, especially with 2 assault squads playing the role of cleanup/support for the main spearhead. I couldn't believe how much more effective combat squads become when you have him on the board, though. It was unreal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1932688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
white radish Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Very interesting. I am beginning to see what the big fuss is about with Lord Macragge, and to a lesser extent, the Stubborn guys (Pedro & Lysander). It's easy to look at the combat stats of Lysander and Lord Macragge, but the secondary abilities definitely seem like the real power of our new HQs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1932705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Awesome... I completely missed that he has EW. I always miss rules like that. Shoot, I forget about Lysander's bolster defenses half of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1932744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 I would say Lysander isn't nearly as good of an army buff as Calgar. God Of War...is...AMAZING. The peculiar thing about him is the ap2 storm bolter... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1932798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Calgar is a beast - Head to head, lysander and calgar are roughly equal.. Calgars special rules are absolutely worth the 65 points. Ap 2 stormbolter with re-roll wounds? Ordinance blast upto 3 honour guard units!! Pass moral checks for your army... and last of all - he has a teleport homer. Your assault terminator unit would have been fun... but swap them for a unit of honour guard with a banner and chapter champion and you will have something much better... This boosts calgar to a mighty 7 str 8 attacks on the charge with re-roll to wound.. not to mention 5 attacks EACH from the honourguard and 6 from the WS 5 chapter campion! + you get an additional +1 to the combat resolution as well!!! Chuck in cassius to the unit and you have something truely worthy to stand next to the god of war... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1932839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 Yeah, that's funny you mention the honour guard. I was thinking to myself: "Man...I really should buy the Marneus Calgar box, but what am I going to use those Honour Guard for?" Then it dawned on me...they're pretty good...for a 175 points, barebones, that's 21 power weapon attacks at I4 and then Calgar's 7 power fist attacks that re-roll wounds on the charge. That's pretty much really nasty. I still think 5 lightning claw terminators would beat them though. At 25 points more, allowing every model to re-roll their wounds AND give them deep striking ability AND an invul save I think is well worth it and way better, personally. Not to mention for 200 points you could take 5 TH/SS termies which would totally ANNIHILATE an equivalent amount of honour guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1932895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 I wouldnt say annihilate... for 200 points total you can give your chapter champion a relic blade.. thats 15 powerweapon attacks and 5 with WS5 and str 6... Factor in this all going before your T-hammer guys, even with their 3+ invul, a significant portion will die, if not all... the return attacks will hurt (if any) but is un-likely that they will win combat due to the +1 the honour guard have to combat res... I dont think that matching units head to head is really a true indication of how well they are - HG destroy MEQ AND hoard fairly well - their 2+ save is just as strong as termies yet can shoot (basic) and dish out a bucket load of attacks... This unit, like any high volume CC unit really shines with a chappy attatched.. when you pair HG with a character as strong as marneus you get a perfect blend of volume with strength and good saves all round.. Add in a chappy and it gets near unstopable... That said.. your points cost is through the roof but you will get every point worth from it.. I just wish that they made all INFANTRY count as scoring rather than only troops.. T-hammer termies are best employed against things above and beyond most troops - MC, tanks really high intiative CC power units - They have the best invul save you can get and hit almost as hard as dreads.. Volume is something they lack... I wouldnt call 5 TH termies exactly anti hoard... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1932935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Calgar is one of those characters that doesnt need a supporting unit or IC, as he re-rolls hits and wounds he doesnt need a chappy to boost him, and only the +1A from the honour guard flag really helps. If like Idaho your plan is to give him a basic bodyguard (Idaho uses tac squad), then why not try a unit of assault scouts, with power weapon they come in at 155 points and can load out an amazing 31 attacks... Just an idea.. GC08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1933050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 If like Idaho your plan is to give him a basic bodyguard (Idaho uses tac squad), then why not try a unit of assault scouts, with power weapon they come in at 155 points and can load out an amazing 31 attacks... Just an idea.. GC08 That is actually an unusual idea which would probably work wonders, plus be cheap enough to not matter too much about casualities! Nice one greatcrusade08! God Of War...is...AMAZING. Indeed it is. last year's GT I failed the odd safe morale check in close combat, and even gave away KPs last turn, which helped me lose the game. What I would have given to automatically pass that check... I love using Honour Guard! Obviously there are units out there which would own them in close combat (well not without taking a black eye doing so!) but I think Honour Guard are really superior for thei utility. Here is my set up (you knew it was coming): Honour Guard +2 Honour Guard Relic Blade on Chapter Champion Chapter Banner = 225pts That is pretty cheap (only 25pts more than same numbers of Terminators). With a powerful character leading them they are all but unstoppable. I normally use a Relic blade/Storm shield Master, but Calgar is something else. He has the killing power to splatter MCs and Nobz, and can protect the squad by using his power weapon (aka lightning claw) with his higher initiative to thin the enemy numbers before they strike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1933165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryzouken Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Also remember that Calgar's carrying a power weapon in addition to his twin powerfists with built in super bolters, meaning he can strike at Init if he so chooses. Might matter, might not. Can be nice to have that option against, say, a mob of boys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1933729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Might matter, might not. Can be nice to have that option against, say, a mob of boys. This is where his CC scouts come in handy, hitting first against slow orks, might aswell let him use fists for extra attack and almost guaranteed kills. GC08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1933777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Calgar is one of those characters that doesnt need a supporting unit or IC, as he re-rolls hits and wounds he doesnt need a chappy to boost him, and only the +1A from the honour guard flag really helps. GC08 no re-roll to hit IIRC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1935505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Calgar is one of those characters that doesnt need a supporting unit or IC, as he re-rolls hits and wounds he doesnt need a chappy to boost him, and only the +1A from the honour guard flag really helps. GC08 no re-roll to hit IIRC Yep i double checked and you are quite right, its re-roll wounds on shooting and CC... Gc08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164296-tedwins-tip-of-thursday-march-26/#findComment-1935540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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