Scout tactics

[greatcrusade08]

[center; background-image:url(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;">Scout Tactics: Part 1 space marines[/center]

A quick introduction to myself, I am a scout nut, I got into the idea of running a scout army shortly after the release of the 5th edition codex and was quickly sucked in by their amazing new units and shiny new toys.
In this series of articles I am going to delve into scout tactics against certain armies, each different 40k army will have its own article, highlighting successful and not so successful tactics, troublesome units and the strengths and weaknesses of a scout army against this particular enemy. The intention is to leave these articles open for all scout players to add to, until we have a comprehensive guide for new players that incorporates every pointer and tactic we have tried and tested. Of course that doesn’t mean you can read this article and instantly win games as we all know how fickle the dice gods can be.
A lot of what we discuss will involve topics from my previous articles and if you haven’t already read them, I strongly suggest you give them a flick through before sinking your teeth into this article.
They can be found here…
Why play scouts?
10th company tactica
HQ tactics for scout armies

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;">Game plan

When choosing your army to play against space marines, there are several key points to consider, firstly is your style of play, space marines are the jack of all trades and can do a lot of things better than scouts for only a little more in points. The only way to win is to have a good solid game plan and play reasonably aggressively.
There is little point in running an army of bolter armed scout squads, as space marine tactical squads are only a little more expensive and are far more effective.
Space marines can shoot better than scouts, are more survivable and better in Close combat due to the extra WS.
If you want to beat them you have to use your abilities to their maximum potential, as infiltrators we always set up last. With little or nothing on the table, most players will deploy quite evenly, this is the chance to set up all on one side and ‘gang’ up on smaller portions of the enemies army at any one time, to win we need to divide and overwhelm them little by little. Or by striking at key points to deny the enemy his game plan, whether that be taking down his rhinos to remove the mobility of tactical squads, or destroying his land raider that carries his uber unit.
Either way the key must always be to ‘control’ the battle for as long as possible, by controlling the set up and first turn you gain the advantage, the key against space marines is to hold onto this advantage, otherwise it becomes a game of trading fire and attrition which is never a good idea against a superior opponent.
A good example would be setting up for a first turn charge on his flank, only to ignore a couple of rhinos carrying tac squads, who can swing across his lines and hit you at close range with rapid fire shots. At this point you have lost the advantage gained by infiltration.
Obviously getting first turn affects our style of play, it is pointless to set up in rapid fire range if the enemy got first turn, instead we have to play a little more cautiously, this is where knowing your enemy comes in to play, if we can guess his moves we can set up to counter it in our first turn without gifting him easy kills.
To sum up your game plan should involve minimising his movement, striking against key targets in force and preventing your opponent from reacting to your attacks.
Sounds difficult, and it is, space marines are by far one of the toughest opponents for scouts to face, but it’s a great challenge.

Army selection

Like I mentioned before taking tactical scout squads is often a mistake against space marine armies, you have to make them play your game, not the other way around, instead use our unique weapons like shotguns and sniper rifles to good effect.
Snipers: Snipers set up in our own deployment zone and can shoot from turn one, a space marine tactical squad will have to move up in order to trade fire. The first priority would be to take out thier transports, to prevent them from obtaining rapid fire range to your delicate scouts, this also helps prevent them from reacting to your sneak attacks with your other specialised units.
I have found in my own experience that its best not to upgrade sniper squads too much, sure camo cloaks are good, but I don’t advocate taking more than a single squads worth, they are very expensive and the enemy wont be shooting them with massed fire until after the first turn or two. By taking ten man squads with ML’s you can put more boots on the ground and get more shots off in the first two turns before casualties start mounting up, of course in the latter turns you will take more casualties than if you took cloaks, but in my opinion the game is won or lost in the first two turns. Also by including ML’s it helps with knocking out transports and gives you the odd instant kill when firing at marines.
Ccw scouts: Scout assault squads are about equal with regular assault squads but are much cheaper, they would probably lose in an equal fight between their space marine counterparts, but should be able to take down a tactical squad. Because of infiltrate and scout move, we have the option of choosing our battles to maximise our own potential.
LSS teams: I do believe these beauties can turn a battle, not only are drive bys so much fun, but used properly as an annoyance to an already occupied enemy unit, they should be able to stick around for longer, its pointless to use them to directly attack an enemy unit unaided as they will be quickly destroyed.
The best use would be a 5 man team with shotguns and a power weapon and or combi-weapon, I generally spend a little more on upgrades for LSS teams to keep them flexible and make them more effective. Normally my units come to about 100 points.
These squads can be used quite effectively to mop up half squads or combat squads of tactical marines, and are best supported with the standard heavy bolter from the LSS.
Its important to add that although the tag team of a multi-melta and combi-melta is an effective anti-tank option for the LSS team, it does make them a dedicated one use squad and they lose a lot of flexibility, that being said, space marines do often utilise all manner of tanks, dreadnoughts and land raiders, so adding one in could be of some benefit.
Bike squads: In my humble opinion these are the best unit for taking on space marines in the scout arsenal, the potential for first turn assaults with Toughness 5 is pretty good, and the enemy could find himself a tactical squad lighter straight off the bat, its important that you don’t leave them unsupported however, as they could be quickly overwhelmed.
There a few ways to use them, the first is a first turn charge against a devastator or tac squad, where you can almost guarantee a margin of victory (dice gods willing), so a power weapon or fist is essential, especially as more and more players are using hidden fists. Also the rapid fire grenade shots are great at wounding marines, but the AP is not quite good enough to beat power armour.
Secondly, a small squad or combat squad can be used as an anti-tank unit, in the 10th tactica I call this the suicide squad, but that need not always be the case, as the very vehicle that you destroy can often give you cover saves or deny LOS from enemy retaliation, if run as a combat squad the remaining squad can be armed with grenade launchers as a shooting unit.
Lastly as an outflanking unit, they have the mobility to make up for the randomness of their arrival, this is a good tactic if we lose the first turn.

Exemplar scout list 1500 points

Khan on foot.....160
10 ccw scouts, power sword, combi-flamer, meltabombs.....170
LRC, MM, extra armour.....275
10 snipers, ML.....150
10 snipers, ML.....150
LSS with HB.....50
5 scouts, shotguns, combi-flamer, power sword, meltabombs.....105
LSS with heavy flamer.....60
5 scouts, shotguns, power sword, combi-flamer, melatbombs.....105
10 scout bikes, 3 grenade launchers, cluster mines, fist.....275.

I wrote this list as an ‘all rounder’, this being the one list ill run for some time (or as long as it works).
The Khan, assault squad combo will run in the LRC as my ‘uber’ unit. Whilst this isn’t as strong as some of the ‘uber’ units played by space marine players, we need to pick our battles carefully to maximise their potential.
This is the one unit that has to be deployed as normal, which may mean the opponent sets up his anti-tank options facing it, this is where we have to make best use of cover and LOS to ensure it survives as long as possible.
The snipers set up in our own deployment zone, ensuring they have the range advantage for the first turn or two, hopefully there will be some cover to help them, but its important to note you shouldn’t set up in cover merely for the sake of it, the game plan must come first.
The LSS don’t have infiltrate but do have scout move, so you can get combined first turn charges with the bikes and LSS teams if you wish, you could combat squad the bikes and tie up two important enemy units with four of your own.

Im not suggesting in anyway that you run this list, as it isn’t tailored specifically towards marine opponents, but it shows a good example of how your units must be chosen with an idea of how to support each other.

Weaknesses and troublesome units

Heavy flamers and heavy bolters: having only 4+ saves makes scouts vulnerable to weapons that are widely used by space marine armies, whilst staying in cover can keep them safer from heavy bolters, the heavy flamers are a nightmare.
This is also why I don’t suggest upgrading your squads with cloaks, as a heavy flamer shot will ignore them anyway.
Land speeder squadrons: armed with heavy flamers these are by far our worst nemesis, their mobility means they can be killing you off in the first or second turns, these are a priority target for your sniper squads (rending automatically penetrates AV10).
Terminators: In my experience with space marine armies I always tend to be on the receiving end of a deepstriking terminator squad with a heavy flamer, in my first game against DA, I lost an entire sniper squad with Telion, and in my last game I lost 6 snipers in a single round of shooting from a terminator squad.
DS’ing Terminators are a pain in the neck, the good points to them is once they are down they are not very mobile, and if all my previous games are anything to go by, they tend to destroy a single squad of snipers and are left chasing the rest of the game as they are too far away from any real action to contribute. The two ways to deal with them are by ignoring them if they are used as described above, or by using snipers and hope for rending. Massed fire is another possibility, a unit of assault terminators for example with 2+/3+ saves will only be brought down under the weight of some serious firepower.
Uber units: these are also a big problem for scout armies, our own options are limited compared to space marine armies, the only real option is to destroy their transports as soon as possible and make them footslog for the game, making them more vulnerable to shooting.

Good luck and happy gaming

GC08

[greatcrusade08]

Hey guys C+C always welcome, this article is far from finished.

If you have anything you want to add, or you think would work better, post it up and ill take a look.

 

Thanks

GC08

[waaanial00]

You mention deploying sniper scouts in your own deployment zone (I can see the logic behind this given their longer range). Is there much tactical benefit in infiltrating them into no mans land or on a flank? I can see little benefit in outflanking these but if you know that you are not going to be using an area of the battle field and there is a particularly good bit of terrain to perch them on can you see tactical sense?

 

I raise this because in my last game against Chaos we had the one objective each mission and 12" deployment zone. I deployed them in a clear firing lane but the only infantry was well out of range by turn 1 and I had to move them twice. Had infiltrated them closer to the enemy I would have got more mileage out of them. I was not worried about losing them because I had drop podded Sternguard into their lines on turn 1 and a Rhino rush coming up faster than the enemy was advancing.

 

This made me challenge the main idea of them being deployment zone huggers and think that there are certain circumstances when gaining a bit of risk is better than not playing aggressive enough and making them ineffective.

 

Oh and I love CC scouts, they are always more effective than your opponent will give them credit for and they make more use of their Move Through Cover ability. I am glad that you can now take a power fist for less as well (my model has gathered dust since 3rd ed when I made him on a whim, now he is gold!)

 

Wan

[greatcrusade08]

You mention deploying sniper scouts in your own deployment zone (I can see the logic behind this given their longer range). Is there much tactical benefit in infiltrating them into no mans land or on a flank? I can see little benefit in outflanking these but if you know that you are not going to be using an area of the battle field and there is a particularly good bit of terrain to perch them on can you see tactical sense?

 

This made me challenge the main idea of them being deployment zone huggers and think that there are certain circumstances when gaining a bit of risk is better than not playing aggressive enough and making them ineffective.

 

I understand your confusion with my advice, but consider this, the normal game board is 48", by setting your snipers up within your deployment zone, you should be able to shoot be able to reach most enemy units within a 2 to 3 foot wide arc.

Also you deploy last as infiltrators meaning you can pick your best fire arcs.

This is the reason i say dont choose terrain just for the sake of it, getting clear fire arcs and getting shots off is far more important.

To address your other question, if your opponent has left a clear area of the battlefield, then it makes sense to use this, if anything it allows you to spread your units out further, meaning if enemy units engage oone unit, they may be out of reach from the rest for a turn or two.

The example i used to describe this was the termies attacking my rear most snipers, sure they killed the unit, but they played little part on the game afterwards.

Basic principle of scout snipers, be in your range, but out of his

 

GC08

[fringewarden]

GC08 is on the money in regard to the benefit of infiltrators. The best thing about them isn't necessarily where you deploy them, but when you get to deploy them. You can guarantee shots against high-toughness opponents. Unless you are playing a highly mobile or drop pod intensive list, putting the scouts on their own isn't a good choice if you want to maximize their effectiveness. Unlike many people who post on this list, GC08 posts sound advice in that it is both clear and he knows what he is talking about. I'm a pretty decent player, but even when I look at some of my posts, I realize what I typed isn't exactly what I meant.

[Brother Aristeo]

First off, I've really been enjoying your articles on Scouts and have found them very useful in planning out my Scout-heavy force. I honestly had no clue how to equip my Scouts until I started reading your stuff.

 

Last night I was looking at the Codex to figure out how to equip my 3 Scout bikers and used your list as a reference.

10 scout bikes, 3 grenade launchers, cluster mines, fist, combi-melta.....285.

Now I'm confused because the way the Codex entry is written it seems you can take either the power fist or the combi-melta, but not both. Or am I reading it wrong? I'm not trying to nit-pick your list or anything, I'm really just confused about it. If you could only take either the power fist or the combi-melta, which one would you choose?

[white radish]

10 scout bikes, 3 grenade launchers, cluster mines, fist, combi-melta.....285.

Now I'm confused because the way the Codex entry is written it seems you can take either the power fist or the combi-melta, but not both. Or am I reading it wrong? I'm not trying to nit-pick your list or anything, I'm really just confused about it. If you could only take either the power fist or the combi-melta, which one would you choose?

I believe you're right, and it's the same with Space Marine Bikes (only have one replaceable weapon, unlike Tacticals)... but I don't have my Codex in front of me.

 

With 10 Scout Bikers, I'd take the Power Fist. A smaller team, I'd take the Combi-Melta or just Meltabombs since you've got Grenade Launchers for light transports & a one-shot Combi-Melta isn't necessarily improving on the Astartes GLs unless you've got Vulkan as HQ.

[Brother Aristeo]

How about a power fist and meltabombs?

[greatcrusade08]

you may be right here guys, i havent got my codex with me at the moment but rest assured i will check asap and repost.

 

as for which id choose, that depends on thier usage.

for a large group like written above it has to be the fist, a large group of fast moving T5 marines with a fist is a daunting propect for any arm to face.

As for smaller dedicated anti-tank squads it has to be the combi-melta, in the 10th co tactica i call this a suicide squad, but both times i use them they didnt die off straight away and still played a small part in turns 2 and 3.

basically thier use is to get first turn charges shooting combi-melta at close range and then charging in for meltabomb attack on a stationary vehicle that auto hits, this should be enough to make even an LR cry.

 

GC08

Edit: you are correct, he has no option to trade out his shotgun, nice catch it will save me some potential embarrasment for my next game.

[Mal]

You'll see the 'suicide squads' more and more nowdays, personally i've been using them for years, but I usually take a small unit of vets with meltabombs for tanks and a fist or two for characters and monstrous creatures. And having checked the codex, it is infact correct, only 1 weapon swap allowed... you can still give him the extra meltabomb however.

[greatcrusade08]

Yeah i think what i did was i had an extra ten points and just glanced at the list and gave it to the bike sergeant without checking..

This is why you should always double check lists!!!

 

GC08

 

Would anyone like to add to this tactica?, have i missed anything important?

[Bannus]

A lot of great information there greatcrusader. One way to find out all of the strengths and weaknesses of a unit is to play it exclusively - and you certainly have done that! :lol:

 

One thing that I think would improve the LSS unit is the heavy flamer. It hits just as hard as the heavy bolter - but isn't affected by the Scouts lower BS and ignores cover (helpful if you want to dislodge a unit holding an objective). Combined with a combi-flamer for the Sarge, the combined arms unit could overwhelm a formitable unit with little effort.

[greatcrusade08]

A lot of great information there greatcrusader. One way to find out all of the strengths and weaknesses of a unit is to play it exclusively - and you certainly have done that! ;)

 

One thing that I think would improve the LSS unit is the heavy flamer. It hits just as hard as the heavy bolter - but isn't affected by the Scouts lower BS and ignores cover (helpful if you want to dislodge a unit holding an objective). Combined with a combi-flamer for the Sarge, the combined arms unit could overwhelm a formitable unit with little effort.

 

Thanks Bannus, doubling up on the same weapons, i.e Heavy flamer/combi-flamer on LSS teams is called the redundancy tactic as highlighted in the 10th company tactica, flamers are great, but the technique works best with the Meltas for tank busting, the back up melta shot ensure the lower BS of scouts doesnt affect your game plan too much..

The sergeant however is not a scout, he has BS4 like normal marines, which is handy!

 

I may revisit this tactica later and add a couple of points in, thanks man.

 

GC08