Wound allocation & Squad postioning

[WG Vrox]

So after finally getting a few games under my wolf belt, I am learning more about the art of wound allocation and squad positioning. Thought I would share with the younger pups what I've learned and hope that a few longer in the tooth would pitch in with their experience as well.

 

You must keep in mind after your troops are on the ground, movement from that point on will be based on each individual 6" move and not grabbing from the back and moving to the front when and where needed. I have seen people do this not knowing its taboo, yes even for large mob type armies. I have also seen people reposition their units after 1 round of wound allocation because they know a template weapon is next to be fired. It's too late at that point and against the rules.

 

Squad positioning is key when it comes to wound allocation. Hard part here is how to keep your special shooters in front to ensure maximum range while keeping your power weapon types in range of an assault or counter assault. In a perfect bare earth scenario you don't have to worry about terrain, destroyed tanks, friendly units and enemy units. But this is not the case 80% of the time. Congo lines form from transport exits, tight squeezes or when attempting a flank movement from a gun line position.

 

So with that said when it comes to wound allocation and template weapons you want to spread your special units though out the pack. The reason for this is when only a few wounds are scored, you will have a choice of who gets wounds allocated against and of course this means the basic unit will get the dice. So if you missed a save or two and still have a few more template weapons targeted at that unit, having all your special troops bunched together allows your opponent to maximize their template weapons over the same 4 or 5 special weapons tooting wolves.

 

 

I have found placing Power Weapon units towards front, but not at the front and for sure not right next to each other is the best place for them. Try not to place them next your plasma guns, melta guns or the like. Instead go with a basic unit, special weapon, and basic unit placement. Same thing with your plasma and melta units, keep em in front toward the enemy for maximum range but not right next to each other if at all possible.

 

If you practice this positioning, you will find that even though this takes constant diligence when moving your units, it will pay off in the end when caught unaware of some special weapon, rule or surprises your enemy may have.

 

Hope this helps some of the younger pups out there. And if anyone has any other tips about the topic feel free add, comment or suggestions.

 

WG Vrox.

[Yeti]

Uh ... I don't get it.

 

Just because you're meltagun toting dude under a template and everyone under the template takes a wound ... doesn't mean the meltagun dude bites the dust. You can remove another model that was not under the template.

 

Wound allocation only comes into effect if you have more wounds that "basic dudes". You can specifically allocate a wound to a certain model if you want to (for example to the guy with the 2+ save, or a multi-wound model), but nothing obliges you to allocate a wound to a specific model under a given template.

[Valerian]

And if anyone has any other tips about the topic feel free add, comment or suggestions.

 

WG Vrox.

 

WG Vrox,

 

I don't get it. The rules are simple and clear, once the number of wounds has been determined, from either shooting or close combat, template weapon or otherwise, it is up to the owning player to assign those wounds to the models in his unit any way he/she sees fit (providing of course that no model get assigned two wounds before every model gets one, etc.). So, put your special ranged weapons in the front to enable them to get in range of the enemy easier, and put your special close combat weapons near the front so they get engaged with the enemy easier. Too easy.

 

Valerian

 

Too funny, Yeti beat me to it.

[WG Vrox]

Ok, sorry about not emphasize my points. When you are getting hit by multiple targets such as a Drop Pod force landing in front of 3 or 4 units of bad guys, your going to take a pounding. I am not talking about who you pick and don't pick when a wound roll fails, but rather making sure your troops are setup in a way that when your going to get hit by template weapons, your enemy does not get to place the template over the same 4 or 5 guys, rather if you disperse your units as suggested you can take basic unit casualties from your bunched up units so instead of the 4 or 5 on the next shot, there may only be 3 or 4 under the template instead of giving him maximum dice to roll.

 

As an example let’s say your DP force get hit with a Vindicator from your right flank and the template deviates a few inches but get 50% of you troops anyway. Now you have a flamer template hitting you next from the left flank, if you think about pulling models, you cam make sure to minimize the potential of that template covering you’re bunched up special weapon units.

 

WG Vrox

[OnlyInDeath]

Well, one thing to keep in mind is that for most weapons out there, your special weapons will still be buffered by members of the pack toting "non special weapons". I'll use the example here of a pack of grey hunters: 1 power weapon/bolter, 1 power fist/bolter, one melta gun, and then 7 bolter toting hunters.

 

For each unit that you come under fire from, you can allocate wounds throughout the pack, even with blast weapons. Here's a synapsis of how to protect your special weapons:

 

You take a partial hit on the unit from a battle cannon, which, after wounds are rolled, does 5 wounds to the grey hunter pack. You essentially have 4 types of troops to choose to place the wounds upon: anyone with a bolter falling into 1 category, then each of the special weapons being another. A good way to protect your weapons (considering a battle cannon would allow no save), would be to place the wounds on 5 of your 7 bolter toting models, thereby having them fall and the power of your pack still remaining.

 

If, instead, you take concentrated fire from, say, a unit of sternguard marines and take 2 plasma gun wounds and 7 bolter wounds, you are now left with a choice to make. The most conservative way to place the wounds would be to place the 2 plasma wounds on standard "bolter" hunters, then taking 5 of the bolter wounds and placing them on the remaning bolter toting hunters. This only leaves you with two wounds that must be allocated onto models with special weapons, and you will have to chose which two take the wounds (this must be based upon what you want to survive the most).

 

Remember that for EACH unit firing at you, you must allocate wounds. So, for instance with the same 10 man squad, you take 5 wounds from one unit, failing 2 saves on your bolter marines (leaving 5) and 5 from another enemy unit, you can still place those 5 wounds on the remaining 5 bolter marines to shield your special weapons.

_____

 

Now, the above being said, many competitive wolves (ie, in tourney circuits) will have a WGBG pack in which each of the guard are equipped slightly different, so as to be able to pick and chose each and every wound that would be dished out to a squad. It also means that for wounds that outnumber the member of units in a pack (ie, 4 bolter wounds and 2 plasma wounds on a 5 man termie pack), you can place both of the plasma wounds on a single model after all other models have taken a wound. This is a somewhat power-gamer style to play in, and personally I dont do it, but it is entirely within the rules and have seen it in action in a tournament setting.

_____

 

I agree with Vrox that the most important thing to keep in mind is the positioning of your squads. Template weapons abound these days, and keeping your squad too clustered up is a good way to get yourself killed en masse. Keeping a unit too spread out makes it vulnerable to assaults from multiple units. Cover is also more important to ever, and is a HUGE thing to keep in mind with a SW army (any unit assaulting u without assault grenades will get met with a counter charge that goes first).

[Yeti]

Ok, sorry about not emphasize my points. When you are getting hit by multiple targets such as a Drop Pod force landing in front of 3 or 4 units of bad guys, your going to take a pounding. I am not talking about who you pick and don't pick when a wound roll fails, but rather making sure your troops are setup in a way that when your going to get hit by template weapons, your enemy does not get to place the template over the same 4 or 5 guys, rather if you disperse your units as suggested you can take basic unit casualties from your bunched up units so instead of the 4 or 5 on the next shot, there may only be 3 or 4 under the template instead of giving him maximum dice to roll.

I get what your saying ... what I'm saying is that it has no influence.

 

Multiple templates could hit the same "4 or 5 guys", but nothing is forcing you to allocate wound to those guys.

 

To get to what you're talking about, namely model placement within a squad, do it to your tactical advantage assuming your special weapon toting model will survive. If you know you're going to be taking templates/blasts, it's to your tactical advantage to space out your guys as much as possible. But this is done to minimize the total number of wounds taken and not to spare certain models from taking multiple wounds.

 

When removing casualties in preparation for the next hit, do it in such a way as to minimize your upcoming hits/wounds. If it's a template weapon, remove guys that are close together. It it's an AP3 or better weapon, remove guys that aren't in cover so that you get cover saves vs. those AP weapons. Having your plasma gun or power weapon toting model up front (or back or middle) doesn't change anything.

[arcath]

I got a question along those lines. I get the general theory with wound allocation and the guys having the same armor save.

 

But what happens with I get hit with my brother's defkotpa AP3 rockets on my Grey Hunters with a WGL in TDA?

 

One rocket hit the squad out of 6 so I just assigned it to the Termie and saved. But lets say 2 or more landed, I can only assign 1 save to the termie, and the other guys eat the hits right?

[OnlyInDeath]

I got a question along those lines. I get the general theory with wound allocation and the guys having the same armor save.

 

But what happens with I get hit with my brother's defkotpa AP3 rockets on my Grey Hunters with a WGL in TDA?

 

One rocket hit the squad out of 6 so I just assigned it to the Termie and saved. But lets say 2 or more landed, I can only assign 1 save to the termie, and the other guys eat the hits right?

 

 

Correct. You can only allocate one wound per model in a unit until all other models have a wound allocated to them.

[WG Vrox]

When removing casualties in preparation for the next hit, do it in such a way as to minimize your upcoming hits/wounds. If it's a template weapon, remove guys that are close together.

 

And this is the whole point of the thread, if all your special weapon units are close together you will not assign wound dice to them thus leaving the same 4 or 5 guys clumped together providing the next template weapon a juicy target over and over again till the round of shooting is done. If you disperse your special weapons you can pick a basic unit out of the clump to reduce the number of packed together units, making the next template weapon less effective.

 

Again, let's say you have three dev squads firing 3 frag missles each. by dispersing your special weapon untis throughout your pack, you now have the option when pulling models to pull out the basic units that are close together, otherwise your oppenent is going to center the blast template over the same 5 guys with special weapons for each dev squad's shoots.

 

WG Vrox.

[Yeti]

When removing casualties in preparation for the next hit, do it in such a way as to minimize your upcoming hits/wounds. If it's a template weapon, remove guys that are close together.

 

And this is the whole point of the thread, if all your special weapon units are close together you will not assign wound dice to them thus leaving the same 4 or 5 guys clumped together providing the next template weapon a juicy target over and over again till the round of shooting is done. If you disperse your special weapons you can pick a basic unit out of the clump to reduce the number of packed together units, making the next template weapon less effective.

True, but the solution isn't to spread your special weapons throughout the squad, but to make sure that your entire squad is spread out as much as possible.

 

Model placement within squads could become important in certain situations when your mobility is reduced or your deployment options are limited though. Examples include disembarking from a vehicle or snaking through terrain. In these cases, I'd suggest keeping the special weapons up front, but placing normal troops between the models with special gear.

 

That being said, most intelligent opponents will blast you with the templates first to maximize effect while you're clumped and then pick off the remainder with rapid fire or other non-area of effect weapons.

[WG Vrox]

true, but the solution isn't to spread your special weapons throughout the squad, but to make sure that your entire squad is spread out as much as possible.

 

Model placement within squads could become important in certain situations when your mobility is reduced or your deployment options are limited though. Examples include disembarking from a vehicle or snaking through terrain. In these cases, I'd suggest keeping the special weapons up front, but placing normal troops between the models with special gear.

 

That being said, most intelligent opponents will blast you with the templates first to maximize effect while you're clumped and then pick off the remainder with rapid fire or other non-area of effect weapons.

 

Are you trying to be funny or egg me on, or are you just that daft? Did you even read my post? You come back with statements like this that keep repeating my original post concept as if your saying it for the first time. Come on man don't just skim what someone writes then come back and rewrite it. As if what you just got done writing here was not what I was originally writing about.

 

 

Of course you spread out your troops the best you can a, but again if you go back an reread my post and please please do, you will see that I am talking about situations where you can not do this which is EXACTLY WHAT MY ORIGINAL POST IS ABOUT,

 

, I'd suggest keeping the special weapons up front, but placing normal troops between the models with special gear.

 

Is it really what you suggest, or was that what my whole thread was originally about... wow man? I think you are obviously and intentionally attempting to frustrate me. So please keep quoting me and rewriting my points.

 

true, but the solution isn't to spread your special weapons throughout the squad

 

I even suggest you reread your own thread because you contridict yourself ,

 

I'd suggest keeping the special weapons up front, but placing normal troops between the models with special gear.

 

WG Vrox.

[Yeti]

Sorry if it seems that I'm deliberatly frustrating you. It was not my intention and if it came across this way, I apologize.

 

I did read your posts and I even re-read them. I think we're looking at this from different points of view, but where both lead to similar conclusions.

 

The impression I got from your posts was that you were looking to minimize the amount of templates that land on models with special weapons, with the intention of minimizing the wounds those models take.

 

What I'm saying is that placing models within a squad with the intention of minimizing the hits special weapon models take doesn't make sense. The wound allocation system doesn't work that way.

 

What I was suggesting was placing your special weapon models in an offensively advantageous position. Once that is done, arranging the entire squad with the goal of minimizing the total number of wounds you're likely to take.

 

Both points of view lead to similar conclusions though. Placing special weapon models up front and ideally behind cover to maximise their offensive impact. At the same time, arrainging the other models that comprise the squad in such a way as to minimize the potential for taking wound.

 

Your suggestions are good, but the focus on the models with special weapons repeatedly getting hit with templates doesn't make sense. You want to avoid clumping models regardless of what the models in those clumps are equiped with.

[deedark]

My head is starting to hurt now, all I would worry about was where my BC flamer was but now I think it would be easier, to just drop all specials and go Bolter/CCW throughout.

 

If I had to think this hard about troop position everytime it would stop being fun and fun is all I'm after.

 

Battle on guys

 

D.

[WG Vrox]

If I had to think this hard about troop position everytime it would stop being fun and fun is all I'm after

 

Yeah this thread went way differrent than my intent. Don't overthink it and for sure don't remove your special weapons from your BCs, just play on man.

 

WG Vrox.