A few holocaust/psyker questions

[nathan-san]

As the title says

 

Last game I had a fairly good run for Holocaust (it kills Tyranid Gaunts REAL easy), and I'd like to clarify a few things

 

 

1) Can holocaust be used if the psyker is not engaged in an assault? The power says something like "use during the daemonhunters assault phase", but it doesn't make mention of actually being locked in combat. Last game I used it, my GKT were not in assault, but I used it anyways and to good effect (kind of like a second shooting phase..)

 

2) Everybody says "holocaust is dangerous because it is just as likely to kill your own men as the enemy". Is this because everyone puts the template over the top of the psyker? The way I read it, the template just has to touch the base of the psyker, meaning that, if positioned correctly, the template shouldn't have to hit ANY of the psyker's own unit.

 

3) When I buy a GKT retinue for my hero, can both the Hero AND the GKT purchase Holocaust? I'd very much like to use it twice in the same game turn (Even if one is the hero's casting, and the other comes from the GKT)

 

4) Would consecrated scrolls let me use the same psykic power again (could a hero with scrolls and holocaust put out a holocuast in his turn, and then again on his enemy's assault phase?)

[Grand Master Tchezzarus]

1) Yes you don't need to be lock in cc, it just have to be in the assault phase.

2) It's dangerous for your own model if you give holocaust to the squad, not the squad leader :

if you fail to peril of the warp, in the first case, all the model take the hit... in the second case just your BC/GM suffer from it.

3) Yes you could.

4)No : you could use several psychic power the turn you use the scroll, but you're still limited to the normal psychic rules (any psychic power can be use only once /turn /model).

Tchezz.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

4) Would consecrated scrolls let me use the same psykic power again (could a hero with scrolls and holocaust put out a holocuast in his turn, and then again on his enemy's assault phase?)

4)No : you could use several psychic power the turn you use the scroll, but you're still limited to the normal psychic rules (any psychic power can be use only once /turn /model).

 

However, if you buy Holocaust for a GM and also for his retinue, you could use both in the same turn despite the fact that the GM is acting as the squad leader for the purposes of the squad-based power.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

1) Can holocaust be used if the psyker is not engaged in an assault? The power says something like "use during the daemonhunters assault phase", but it doesn't make mention of actually being locked in combat. Last game I used it, my GKT were not in assault, but I used it anyways and to good effect (kind of like a second shooting phase..)

 

No, you have to be in combat. It is used in the Assault phase at I1. The FAQ even stated this clearly for us.

 

2) Everybody says "holocaust is dangerous because it is just as likely to kill your own men as the enemy". Is this because everyone puts the template over the top of the psyker? The way I read it, the template just has to touch the base of the psyker, meaning that, if positioned correctly, the template shouldn't have to hit ANY of the psyker's own unit.

 

The reason people say that is because if you buy it as a squad power, if you roll Perils (2 or 12), the entire unit is affected (no armour save, and they re-roll their 5+ invul against it). If you only buy it on the Brother-Captain/GM, only he takes a wound (GM will survive, BC won't).

3) When I buy a GKT retinue for my hero, can both the Hero AND the GKT purchase Holocaust? I'd very much like to use it twice in the same game turn (Even if one is the hero's casting, and the other comes from the GKT)

 

Yeah, if you have some kinda of vendetta against your GKT's, go for it. Don't be surprised when they fry themselves in the process though :P

 

4) Would consecrated scrolls let me use the same psykic power again (could a hero with scrolls and holocaust put out a holocuast in his turn, and then again on his enemy's assault phase?)

 

No, and furthermore 'Consecrated Scrolls' are only available to Inquisitors.

 

 

Really, don't take Holocaust, it's not worth the risk or the points expenditure. An incinerator is 5pts cheaper, never backfires, always fires and hits, ignores all saves bar 2+ and 3+ armour and it can't be negated (psychic hoods/Runes of Warding can screw with you casting 'Holocaust' successfully).

 

Wait for the next codex, when they give 'Holocaust' AP5/4 and make it ignore invulnerable saves. Then it will be worth it.

[nathan-san]

Thanks for all the replies. In light of the severity of failing a perils of the warp check with a whole squad of terminators, I think I will NOT take it for them

 

However, so far I've still found it very valuable for my GM/BC to take. Assuming I get assaulted by a huge mob of gaunts, along with a few big monstrous creatures: using holocaust to automatically score 5 - 10 kills against the gaunts means its very easy to win combat and cause a lot of automatic wounds on the enemy units. It also really helps against tar pit type units that try to bog down the terminators

 

 

 

No, and furthermore 'Consecrated Scrolls' are only available to Inquisitors.

Ahh!! I didn't even notice that. Thanks

 

 

No, you have to be in combat. It is used in the Assault phase at I1. The FAQ even stated this clearly for us.

I will read through this FAQ again. It would have been cool, since last game my friend and I allowed me to use holocaust out of assault (it just took place during the assault phase) - it was awesome since it was was sort of like a second phase of shooting, after already unloading a bunch of psycannon and stormbolter shots

[nathan-san]

Ooh - another thought

 

My friend said Tyranids have some Shadow of the Warp thing: when I try to use a psykic power I have to roll 3d6 for leadership and take the highest two

BUT

I'm sure he said that because of it, I can't suffer a perils of the warp (the worst I can do is simply fail and not activate the power). Something about the Tyranid synapse blocking the warp out

 

 

If this is the case then, aside from the extra points cost, loading up a squad of GKT with Holocaust vs Tyranids is completely harm free since theres no chance to suffer a perils of the warp!

 

Correct?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

However, so far I've still found it very valuable for my GM/BC to take. Assuming I get assaulted by a huge mob of gaunts, along with a few big monstrous creatures: using holocaust to automatically score 5 - 10 kills against the gaunts means its very easy to win combat and cause a lot of automatic wounds on the enemy units. It also really helps against tar pit type units that try to bog down the terminators

 

Tar pits don't work in 5th edition, because unless they're 'Stubborn' or packing 3+ invul, they'll die to your normal attacks+'No Retreat' wounds. Gaunts are especially screwed, because they haven't got a prayer of killing even one Terminator.

That said, yes 'Holocaust' is somewhat useful on Brother-Captain Stern (he gets it included in his points cost, plus he has 2 wounds so he can shrug off 'Perils' unlike the 1-wound generic Brother-Captain). It's too many points to take on a GM, and on a squad you're just asking to blow them all up with a bad 'Perils' result.

I will read through this FAQ again. It would have been cool, since last game my friend and I allowed me to use holocaust out of assault (it just took place during the assault phase) - it was awesome since it was was sort of like a second phase of shooting, after already unloading a bunch of psycannon and stormbolter shots

 

No, sadly not the case. It specifies 'I1' and 'Assault phase', if you don't actually enter the Assault phase with the unit (and thus measure Initiative steps) you can't use the power.

 

If this is the case then, aside from the extra points cost, loading up a squad of GKT with Holocaust vs Tyranids is completely harm free since theres no chance to suffer a perils of the warp!

 

Yep, but I would still take the incinerator anyway (Tyranids hate heavy flamers). If you're dead-set on using 'Holocaust', take Brother-Captain Stern, as he gets the power 'for free'.