Tactics and units at 500 vp

[Frogstar168]

So, there's a local tournament for charity this Sunday - 500 points. no special characters, normal FoC. I'm not asking for specific builds, but what units and tactics work well at this level. I play vanilla Marines, and I will face mostly marines, chaos marines and orks.

 

ideas?

[Resv]

Well keep em cheap is word of the day. Just about anything is going to dig deeply into your points. I toss bikes into most every situation lately so I might as well throw this out there. In small (really small) I take a Captain on a bike and two 5 man Bike units. With nothing else in addition that is about 415 points. You can add in an Attack Bike outfitted to your liking and still have points to outfit Flamers and maybe a power weapon or two. As an alternative. I am having a growing love for Assault troops. You could go as far as a Jump Chaplin and an Assault detachment with scouts and land speeders in tow. It is a split between heavy hitting units or bodies at hand.

[Koremu]

I'd consider going with 5 Assault Marines, 10 Tactical Marines (2 Squads) with Razorback, Chaplain.

 

16 PA models, a couple of Power Fists, the HBs on the Razorback... decent balance, although all of your AT is CC, but serious armour opposition shouldn't show up too much in 500 points.

[Gornall]

For small games (and big games too), mobility is key. Assault marines and Razorbacks/Rhinos can really help you concentrate your power where needed. Bikes are probably too expensive, but are worth looking at if you can fit them in. There is nothing like driving a Rhino between two of your opponents squads, offloading 10 tacticals out of LOS of one squad and rapid firing the other right before the Assault Marines jump out from behind cover and mop up the survivors.

[Chyttering]

...all of your AT is CC, but serious armour opposition shouldn't show up too much in 500 points.

 

Alternatively, you can bank on your opponents having just such a view and try to escalate with some armor that many armies won't be equipped to handle effectively in a small game. It is reasonable to assume that there won't be too much heavy armor to worry about - so be unreasonable. The Ironclad is a cheap, relatively hard option that can take a significant percentage out of a 500 point force very quickly.

 

A MotF, an Ironclad, a full Tactical Squad, and 5-man Scout squad with a ML/HB comes to 500 on the dot.

[Frogstar168]

I do not have any bikes or ironclads, but I do like the idea of fitting in a tank at that level. I have a TLLC Pred (no sponsons, 105 pts), a TLHB Razorback, and a couple of rhinos. A chaplain and as many brother marines as I can fit may do nicely... or I could forget the Pred and go for a few Assault Marines.

[white radish]

TLLC Predator is probably overkill in anti-tank and overcosted for anti-infantry work at 500 pts, unfortunately. With side 11, it's not the greatest thing ever & can reasonably be dinged by Autocannons.

 

I think you can do 2x Leman Russ tanks, Grenadiers, and required HQ in 500 pts. That should be amongst the most ridiculous things you might see... or a Land Raider, 2x Scouts, 1 HQ, maybe?

 

Snipers might be able to pick off your Assault Sergeant in a 5-man, but Powerfists as anti-tank need more mobility than a Rhino & Razorback would give you, so it's six of this and half dozen of the other.

[Gornall]

I would recommend against a TLLC Predator also. A Dakka Predator is 85 points of goodness though. The Razorback is solid, but a TLAC version might be better. Telion is a special character so you don't have to worry about your PFs getting sniped too bad. I'd give the assault marines a try for sure. They perform like champs at the 750 point level for me and I would imagine are even stronger at the 500 point level.

[Tutteman]

Hmm...My school is running a 500pts tourney too. This is running by a modified Combat Patrol rules though so not sure how much use this'll be, but hey, here we go.

 

I've taken a Librarian in my list, mostly for gate and avenger. He fared okay in my last game, took out seven enemy marines, however they fled and then re-grouped in time to make him eat plasma. Problem with Librarian is he lacks inv save. Captain and Chaplain has this as standard. Preference here I'd say.

 

People have already said it but if you can isolate parts of the enemy forces and hit them with everything you have you'll stand a good chance. This is what I did in my latest game on the enemy terminators and it took them out in two turns despite bad dice rolls. <_< And yes, Assault marines work a treat at 500 pts for me.

 

That said I'm no expert, but this the little advice I can give.

[foster]

I'd go with a full bike squad with captain and try to fit the rest of the force around that:

 

<_<

Space Marine Captain with relic blade, bike and hellfire rounds 175pts

:P

8 man Space Marine Bike Squad with powerfist and flamer 245pts

5 man Scout Squad with sniper rifles 75pts

 

495pts

 

I like the bike idea as they are tough, mobile and they can easily be used aggresively or held back to clean up units. You have relentless twin-linked boltguns that will always fire at maximum range (1 shot at 24") and can still assualt. Considering they are not especially killy like terminators, I like to think that at 500pts most armies will have difficulty dealing with them. With a few changes to the list the wargear can be swapped around, more meltas for anti tank, more flamers for anti-horde or swapping the captains expensive wargear that may not be needed for an additional attack bike. A Multi-melta Attack Bike will fit in nicely if up against lots of armour.

 

BTW are you allowed to take vehicles with more then 13 armour?

[Gornall]

I don't think 14 total models is enough for a 500 point list, especially considering 5 of those are scouts. I just think bikes are going to be too expensive for anything less than 750-1000 points. Also, if you run the Captain with the bike squad that's only 2 squads, and there's no way they can be everywhere at once. Just my opinion though.

[white radish]

Modified Combat Patrol means no heavy tanks, probably (no AV total greater than 33, I think)... but if it's normal FOC rules, then I'd expect someone to bring a Land Raider or 2x Leman Russ or Holofalcon.

 

How much is a PFist going to help against a Land Raider? Maybe a PWpn/Meltabomb Sergeant might actually be more generally useful at 500pts (PWpn is more anti-group + Meltabombs for really big things)?

 

If Cassius isn't the strongest cheap HQ that you can get in our Codex, I don't know who is.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

No need to take rediculous AT here. Razorbacks will perform especially well, as will Dakka preds and TFC's. For an HQ I wouldn't suggest a captain as he has the least wargear and adds the least to your army unless on a bike.

 

I like this list

 

Librarian

Machine curse/GoI

100

 

Tactical squad (10)

(PC, PF, FL)

195

 

Scout squad

(4x sniper, HB Camo cloaks)

100

 

TFC

 

No need for a transport for this one, that's a good use for our inconveniently priced HQ's. It's primarily for Horde I quess, But Machine curse a plasma cannon, power fist and some krak grenades along with a 4 S6 blast should be all you need. But if you suspect your enemies of cheese then feel free to replace the PC with a melta gun, melta bombs or whatever.

[foster]

I don't think 14 total models is enough for a 500 point list, especially considering 5 of those are scouts. I just think bikes are going to be too expensive for anything less than 750-1000 points. Also, if you run the Captain with the bike squad that's only 2 squads, and there's no way they can be everywhere at once. Just my opinion though.

 

I see what you're saying by 14 modals not being enough but come on, at 500pts you'd be lucky to get above 20 modals and to do that you'd have to take lots of Scouts. I'm sure basic Scouts are decent to play with due to their cool sniper rifles, shotguns and infiltrate/flank ability, but they will die quickly due to their 4+ save and shoddy close combat skills. They don't have any 'flaming' anti-horde wargear they can take (exception to Scout Bikers with their grenade launchers) and the only anti-tank weapons they can have is 1 melta bomb and a powerfist. No basic transports means that any unit that's deployed are vurnerable to assualts.

 

The only decent thing the scouts really have are LSS's which can turn a 5 man scout squad into a very tactical unit due to the weapons it can bring. Good for cleaning up small units, to take objectives, to go hunting targets or all three at once.

 

The Bikes may have a low body count (not much lower than Sternguard sergeant McColl's apparently) but they are 8 men and they do have toughness 5. It would take many turns of shooting and close combat attacks to take them out, and frankly with their speed their won't be many opportunities for the opponant to shoot or assualt them. Unless they're caught by a unit of terminators, and if that happens your opponant deserves to win. I think that at small matches like these the Bikers are king. I only wish a Land Speeder Storm can be fitted to transport those scouts in, but then again losing either some bikers or/and some wargear will significantly reduce the bike unit's overall combat effectivness and wounds.

 

No matter what you do you're not going to fit all the stuff you want with only 500pts to spend. Space marines at this points level really suffer when up against other races since they can have better units at a cheaper cost. Just try not to be overwelmed on what you'll face and just go with the units you like the look of.

 

Good luck and have fun.

[Sgt. Farney]

Lets not forget Hive Tyrants... you GOT to put in a couple of high str. guns.... or .... powerfists!

 

depending if your shooty or stabby.... dont try both there is not enough points.

 

 

2 squads of marines (5 ea ) w/ 2 combi- flamers & 1 powersword & 1 powerfist .....240pt.

bare naked dreadnought........................................................................................1

05pt.

Epistolary Librarian w/ storm bolter.............(Force Dome & Might of the Ancients)......153pt.

....................................................................................................

.........Total............498 pts.

 

this has been tried and is not too bad .... the dread will dominate in such a small game... (in theory)

[DarKHaZZ13]

500pts???

 

hq with nothing

2 5 man scout squads and a lnad raider :D

500 dead on

hahahaha

 

 

nah seriously...

vinicator = 125

10 ten man tactical = 170

5 scouts = 75

libraian = 100

plus 30pts on stuff

 

plan...scouts camp home objective w/ sniipers and have fun

vindi roles forward libby joins the unit of tacticals and teleports round the battle feild

 

dakka army...

3 predators with TLAC and Heavy bolters = 85pts ea = 235pts = 6 str6 ap 4 shots and 18str 5 ap4 shots a turn!!

hq would be libby i guess = 100pts

that leaves 165 for troops

2 squads of scouts with cammo cloacks and snipers

 

tactic? SHOOOT LIKE YOUR GONNA DIE TOMORROW =]

 

those just a couple of fun ideas =]

[theredcorsair]

In 500 pts. games, sniper scouts (and any scouts for that matter) will do you well. (But if you want to go CC take shotguns with a tooled up sergeant)

Scouts are fast, cheap, and most of all have great amounts of CC AND shooting ability.

Remember to stick in an HB, they come in when you face lots of high toughness creatures that you will still encounter at 500 pts.

Continuing with scouts, scout bikers with grenade launchers are FANTASTIC, the ability to throw 3 templates (albeit low strength) or 3 very killy shots is a fantastic ability, adding on it being 100 points for 3 is just great.

 

 

Finally, never underestimate the power of a thunderfire cannon at low point values.

 

Thank you, TRC

[DarKHaZZ13]

In 500 pts. games, sniper scouts (and any scouts for that matter) will do you well. (But if you want to go CC take shotguns with a tooled up sergeant)

Scouts are fast, cheap, and most of all have great amounts of CC AND shooting ability.

Remember to stick in an HB, they come in when you face lots of high toughness creatures that you will still encounter at 500 pts.

Continuing with scouts, scout bikers with grenade launchers are FANTASTIC, the ability to throw 3 templates (albeit low strength) or 3 very killy shots is a fantastic ability, adding on it being 100 points for 3 is just great.

 

 

Finally, never underestimate the power of a thunderfire cannon at low point values.

 

Thank you, TRC

 

thunderfire cannon

awesomeness!

[Borinar]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=165898

 

The original post has a very good list you should try!

 

Though a HQ change to your play style might be warranted.

 

Also, i dont think the autocannon on the predator is TL its just a regular heavy 2.

[Gaz1858]

500 points eh? Havent done a game like that in ages, it is fun though.

 

Personally id take:

Chaplain

Ironclad

Tactical

Scouts

 

then 20points for wargear. Maybe a Plasma Gun and Lascannon.

[waaanial00]

Here is one I thought up earlier:

 

HQ

 

Chaplain

 

Troops

 

10 Tactical

 

Razorback

 

5 CC Scouts

 

Heavy

 

Dakka Pred

 

Use the pred as a firebase, tacticals combat squad and focus fire on main threats whilst your scouts and Chaplain lead from the front and assault choice units.

 

I have yet to try it but it sounds good and those CC scouts are going to be a sting for anyone who isnt expecting scouts to do very much, keep them in cover until the enemy gets close then unleash them.

 

Wan

[Krimson]

For a 500pt match I would go with

 

10 man tactical squad w/flamer

drop pod

 

either a 5 man scout sniper squad (sucks the origional post mentioned no special characters, telion could do a lot of damage in this point size) or a five man tactical squad.

 

Fill out any remaing points with either a bike squad or an attack bike squad.

 

HQ would be either chappy or librarian on bike, or with the podding tactical squad. I'm at work, so I'm not entirely sure this is doable for 500 pts, but I think it barely is. The drop pod will come in and chew up just about anyones troop choices in that small of a match (Specially squishy army's, I played a 750pt match against an eldar player last month and made his two troop choices fail morale and fall back off the table on the first turn thanks to combat squads.) The Bikers, kitted with melta goodness, can take out just about any heavy you'll see on the table and soak up a fair amount of shots.

 

A match this size rarley comes into how many models you have, its how much pain those guys can put out.

[travh20]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=166217

 

I do 500 point games a bit, and do OK at em. Check out my 500 point battle report.