2nd Founding Chapter

[Dread Wolf Master]

Okay, why do so many people get pissed when using a Liber Astartes chapter with a background story involving the wolf brothers.

 

It says the chapter was "disbanded" which i interpreted as killed, bc i wouldn't think the high lords would just dismiss space marines and their gene-seed, especially if it was tainted/corrupted which was the reason the chapter was disbanded. I would believe the high lords would attempt to exterminate the chapter and grant them the Allfather's peace, but is that even possible.

 

Think about every genocide ever, was the entire population completely exterminated, no.

 

Examples:

 

Knights Templar

Nazi Germany

Soviet Russia

Imperial Japan

Imperium of Man (with relation to the Traitors)

the Jedi

 

Second, WAS the gene-seed really tainted. Our brotherhood is founded in rebellion against conformity. We reject the Codex Astartes, were a massive chapter, with companies larger than most. In the times of the Rebirth after the Heresy, could it be possible that the high lords couldn't risk something as unpredictable as a second space wolf chapter? I assume the lost Brothers would be similar to us in their worship of Russ and the Allfather, and i also think that would transfer into further rejection of the Codex. We also know that the Wolves have a glorious history of service to the Allfather, with Russ being the only primarch to ever best the Allfather in anything ever. To me this would mean that large populations of imperial citizens respect the actions and value of Chapter, despite our rebellion against the Codex. I think the high lords would rather limit the power of a chapter they couldn't destroy by killing off it's successor chapter. They needed to make an impression of stability and conformity and the thought of another chapter of space wolves threatened that.

 

That being said, why is there so much beef using space wolf gene-seed if that is your interpretation. Is there anything can completely disprove this theory. The High Lords would only need to kill most of the chapter, the rest would disperse, i assume some would fall prey to chaos, but i also assume the chapter would regroup. It's my theory that there are a lot of successor chapters that are not being recognised as chapters or being reported as the actions of chapters more loyal to the imperium. Can you really trust everything you read?

 

Hail Russ and the Allfather

[Grey Mage]

Yes, you could say the geneseed was tainted. We gave them our Wulfen en masse so they would never ask us to split the chapter again. The Wolf Brothers were not made with fresh geneseed... they were made from the remnants of our 13nth company and the geneseed of those who had borne the curse of the wulfen.

 

That is why people get upset when you say there are wolfbrothers in your DIY chapter. Its like telling the ravengaurd that you have a number of abominations in your chapter and isnt that wonderful, or a blood angels chapter that is entirely in the thrall of the red thirst from the moment of initiation.

 

No, you cant trust everything you read... but you can trust that the majorit of wolf brothers are dead and that they deserve their peace.

[KiltedMarine]

I think most of the animosity is based in the idea that canon is not to be tampered with. I can certainly understand people defending canon, but at the end of the day, this is a hobby, which we pursue for fun, and your chapter is yours to do with what you like.

 

See, for example, my own army. They're Celtic rather than Norse, but they're still inherently wolfy. I wink at the issue of their geneseed by asserting canon forcefully, insisting they can't be a SW successor chapter, and that the genetors of the Adeptus Mechanicus have never made any comments on the tithed geneseed being abnormal. Then I howl at the sky, toss back a barrel of ale, and wink broadly.

[Grey Mage]

Indeed... and there are loopholes. Im not saying theres a problem with SW successors inherintly, just with the wolf brothers themselves.

 

For instance, many of the chapters from the dark foundings have no clue who their progenaitors are. Relatively stable SW geneseed might lead one to believe it was WS genes, etc etc.... or just left unknown. If someone has a half decent idea of where they came from, or why its unknown then Im more than happy to listen.

 

Telling me your the children of a wiped out bunch of homocidal maniacs doesnt cut it though.

[KiltedMarine]

Indeed... and there are loopholes. Im not saying theres a problem with SW successors inherintly, just with the wolf brothers themselves...

Telling me your the children of a wiped out bunch of homocidal maniacs doesnt cut it though.

 

I actually have a clarification question about the above, actually: were all the Wolf Brothers marked by the Curse of the Wulfen, or was it simply so frequent that the "project" of the chapter was abandoned?

[Grey Mage]

You know, Ive never been 100% sure of that... but the rate was a majority I know. IE over 50% of the marines bore the mark, and many of those were succumbing to it. They are descrbied as devolving into a horde of ravenous bloodthirsty beasts that could not be controlled.

[Sköll Khan]

Where is the Kanon for the Wolf Brothers?

 

Lexicanum states 3 sources:

 

Codex: Space Marines (3rd Edition):

This source states Wolf Brothers as a successor chapter but nothing else.

 

Dead Sky Black Sun (Novel)

I don't own this book, but I believe shows 1 member of the chapter, possibly fallen to Chaos

 

Planetkill (Anthology)

Haven't read

 

Additional

 

They're not mentioned in our codex (?)

 

Index astartes says 7 years after the death of Horus, the second founding, split the legions into chapters the Space Wolves were split into two.

but has no details on the Wolf Brothers.

 

 

Where does it say what happened to them? Even just the statement that they were disbanded which I'd always just excepted.

 

 

The Mighty Skoll

[Bran Scalphunter]

A specific number was never given as to how many Wolf Brothers became Wulfen, but for the =][= to hose them, it had to be a pretty high amount. I'd wager at least ~60% were manifesting the Wulfen all the time, while then the other ~40% were in various stages of "Wulfening".

 

As I see it, in my boisterous and violent opinion, the Wolf Brothers were Russ' big middle finger to Guilliman. Because Grandpa Smurf had to have his way, Russ sat there and thought "What can I do so I never have to do this again". Then he saw a Wulfen trying to eat some poor Thrall's face off (Poor Thralls, no sense of timing around Wulfen), it came to him. Those Wulfen still in the Fang, and those about to become a Wulfen, were banded together, got a slap job of new paint, and Russ told them "Be good Wulfen, mind your manners, and try to cut back on the InquistorBitz^TM".

 

Then when the =][= saw what the Wolf Brothers were, they went "Nay Nay" and promptly disbanded them. Of course, disband being =][= code for "Exterminate with exceptional prejudice".

 

That, my brothers, is why there are no more Wolf Brothers. Granted, there are a few survivors (dey kan't do a proppa job uv nuffin', da no-gud zoggz) who most likely turned to Chaos, seeing as Russ basically screwed them over.

[Dark Bjoern]

From the official canon there´re two theories about the disappearance of the Wolf Brothers. First they are lost cause of a geneseed defect. That is supported by our 2nd Ed C:SW. The second one you can read in the article about the Lost Companies. There is a story that says that the Wolf Brothers pursuit some Eldar into their Webways to dissapear forever.

Fact is that here and there the Wolf Brothers reappear in the fluff and always on chaos side. One time in the Apocalypse book. One pack works for the Red Corsairs and in the novel Planetkill there is a lonely Wolf Brother who works for Warsmith Honsou of the Iron Warriors.

 

I agree with Grey Mage in his 13th Co. theory about the Wolf Brothers. That´s a theory i mentioned a year or two ago in a discussion about if we are still a Legion or not.

 

At least it doesn´t matter what others say. It´s your army and if you want to play a Wolf Brothers army then do it.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

There can be confusion on this subject due to conflicting sources:

 

According to TofH, the original 13th Company used the informal title of Wolfbrothers, which was also the name given to warbands of young Fenrisian warriors cited in C:SW 2 ed. The 13th Company obviously pursued the Thousand Sons in the Eye of Chaos.

 

The pack that work for the Red Corsairs are cited in C:CSM as traitors rather than from the Wolfbrothers Chapter but then this conflicts with Armageddon.

 

C:SW 2 ed only states:

 

The Space Wolves were never a very large Legion and were divided only once, creating the ill-fated Wolfbrothers Chapter. Perhaps the High Lords recognised the problems of genetic instability that would plague the genetic seed of Leman Russ, giving rise in later times to the terrible curse of the Wulfen, and therefore decided against further dividing and further spreading of the Space Wolves' genetic base.

 

We all know that it suits GW to keep some gaps in their SW lore and this is just one of them - hey ho