Space Wolves

[jamsight]

I have started this topic because an alful lot of brothers have been raving like Worldeaters that the new dex is right around the corner this is niver here nor there to me because it will be out when it is out !!

 

My question is this what is wrong with the currenty dex thats getting everyones nicker in a twist ? a few points here the odd rule there is the only thing that has stuck out in my mind also you want to remember the fact that we are going to loss alot of what we have. Wolf pelts, tooth necklesses etc will only have modeling value after the new dex is out. I will bet my ale that long fang lose the fire control rule and blood claws lose the 2+ Attack so I for one would not be in a hurry to throw away that kind of goodness.

How many Brother here still win glorly and honour for the Allfather with what we got ? So play my Brothers Play and win hearty victory while the kills are good and your axe hand strong ingnore the whispers of a new dex soon they r the enermy and will slow the punishment of the guilty

 

As Alway mixed signals

 

JAMSIGHT

[Grey Mage]

Theres nothing wrong with the old codex in and of itself. The real complaint, and frankly the only worthwhile one IMHO that Ive heard to date is that some LGSs, some gaming groups, wont let you play them because of the interactions between it and the new SM codex. 98% of the time its just sheer jealousy... because BA, DA, and BT didnt get it. The rest of the time its because we pay a little less for our stuff than the codex boys do on some occaisions.

 

The Scariest ones however are actually more expensive than their codex counterparts or missing a number of their powers- Wolf Priest as opposed to chaplains OR apothecairies.... or Wolf Gaurd as opposed to codex terminators. Compare 10 GH with bolters to 10 Codex guys with heavy and special weapons... were 10 pts more. We get counterattack for those points, true enough. But we also "lose" combat squads, and combat tactics.

 

Our Bikers and Jump packers are more expensive because of beserk charge and our long fangs have only 5 wound a peice to them. This isnt a problem with the design, its just how the fluff goes eh? Were not underpowered, nor are we overpowered. Were half way between codex marines and chaos marines in ability and we cost accordingly.

[Skoll Mooneater]

Baaah...You brought the disaster...So we 're gonna loose all those things and gain nothing instead? I get your point but i there is not only one side of the coin. I won't make assumptions about how the new codex will be (if it will be) cause i do not know, but i believe that most of the space wolves players that still play today do it for the fluff, cool models and ofr the playstyle of this army. And i do not believe GW is gonna make that obsolete.

 

And by Russ i want something new and shiny to read each time i visit the toilet! I am tired of the last 9 years reading this codex :yes:

[Battle-Brother Wags]

I'm looking forward to the new codex for a number of reasons.

 

Currently, there are a number of things that simply should not be or are severely lacking. We should not be able to get more attacks on the counterattack than on the charge. I am also very tired of so much hassle over point costs of various things due to the disparagy of the two necessary codexes needed in order to play. A standalone codex would fix these, among other, problems as well as open the space for a ton of fluff and more options.

 

Will the armory disapear? Absolutely. Will wolf pelts, frost blades, and the like disappear? Not necessarily. They will certainly be regulated to certain models, and therefore will not be available quite as widely, but I would be sincerely surprised if they were stripped entirely . . . unless they were replaced with other just as unique items. At this point we know one thing, if they planned on making them ultramarines in blue-grey instead of straight-blue armor, they would have included them in the codex:marine book.

 

I have very high hopes for this new codex.

 

I would bet dollars to donuts we will see a bunch of new ICs, we'll be keeping the exterminator, we'll have a ton more options with blood claws and bikers / jump packers, etc.

 

Its going to be worthwhile. Our current codex, beloved though it is, is greatly in need of an update.

[Yeti]

While I agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with our current codex, there are many valid arguements in favor of a getting a new one, not the least of which is the age.

 

As for loosing what we have ... I don't think it'll be that bad. About the only place we risk really loosing something is with Wolf Guard. It's unlikely that they'll have unfettered access to an "armory" like they have now. Then again, if they go like Honor Guards ... we could field an entire unit of Frost Weapon wielding killers! You should also take a look at the options available to SM HQs. It compares very well to our current armory. I'll even go so far as to say that if we go along the lines of C:SM, our HQs will get even more customizable.

 

You also have to think of what we might gain. Cost effective Jump pack troops? How about Wulfen, Storm Claws and Grey Slayers in a non-13th list? Who knows what else we might also get. There were plenty of surprises in the SM codex - Thunderfire cannon, LR Redeemer, Ironclad Dreads, Land Speeder Storm, new weapon loadoouts for many of the other vehicles. If we get half as many "surprises" as they got in the SM codex, I'm pretty certain most SW players will be jumping for joy.

[Ryzouken]

Current dex works fine.

Until you run across the rules lawyering jackanape that does his best to make you feel guilty about taking the reasonable interpretations of the FAQ, citing that you're a cheat for using Land Raider variants and Ironclads...

 

Russ forbid they manage to talk others in your gaming group into their way of thinking.

 

But otherwise, power level's fine if you're careful about avoiding things like Long Fangs and the expensive options. Triple Raiders at 1500 worked a treat :tu:

[Valerian]

Most of the points have been made, but I'll throw mine in as well.

 

1.) The codex we currently have is not a standalone codex. Every Space Wolves player must buy a Space Marines codex as well in order to use it. In the time that we've had this codex there have been 3 different versions of the Space Marine codex. That means that the behavior of many units, weapons, and items of wargear have changed right out from under us.

 

2.) Our current codex was built for the 3rd edition of the game. We are on the 5th edition now. A lot has changed over the course of the past two editions, and although our army still "works", and even does well, it is simply out of date in the context of the latest version of the rules.

 

3). Because our codex was made when streamlined codices were vogue, it is little more than a pamphlet with the army list. Mine is currently downstairs so I can't look at the exact size, but I would be surprised if it has more than 30 pages. This means that there is no fluff, except for what can be stuffed in the margins. This was such a royal screw up that they had to start writing Index Astartes articles in White Dwarf to provide the background material that was missing from all of the codices.

 

The old 2nd edition codex (and all of the newer codices for the other armies) was more than half background material, telling the story of the Space Wolves. The current codex doesn't make the army accessible to new players; they don't really learn anything about what it means to be a Space Wolves commander from it. They have to read Black Library novels or go find the old 2nd edition version to get that.

 

4). A new codex might get rid of some things, admittedly. The Runic Charm, for example, may cease to exist in the new codex. However, undoubtably, we will get some new stuff, and some things to be genuinely excited about. We've had these same options for 9 years, and I for one am ready for some new things.

 

5). I've got a strong suspicion that we'll see some of the old cool things and special characters from 2nd edition, that were dropped for 3rd, return. Sure they will be re-conceptualized, but they'll be back and better than ever.

 

6). Phil Kelly, the guy that supposedly wrote the 5th edition version of our codex, was the same guy that wrote the most recent Codex: Orks. I think he did a fantastic job with that one, and am confident he will do us proud as well.

 

7). With the release of the new book will be the associated release of new miniatures. We'll probably get a new SW upgrade sprue for our Powered Armor marines, and almost certainly some upgrade plastic to make Wolf Guard Terminators. I'm sure we'll also see a few new metal miniatures for some units and special characters too.

 

 

This is all that I can think of for now, but the above are enough for me to get excited about a new codex.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[Spacefrisian]

Point 6 should take alot of worries away, and if its a good dex someone should pass Phil Kelly Ale.

[13thWarrior]

I do agree that Phil Kelly is an amazing prospect to rewrite the Space Wolf Codex for the current edition.

 

However, Orks don't play the same in their current codex. They are all the same with different point cost and different colors of balls.

An Ork Boy is the same as a Burna Boy is the same as a Loota is the same as a Tank Busta ...

 

I miss certain things out of the Ork codex of days gone by ...

 

Clans! Now there is no difference than that of Paint Scheme.

Burnas! Now you only have one unit (Kommandos) with that upgrade or an unit of 15 Burna Boys. I miss the occasional

burna in a unit.

Looting! I loved my DeathSkullz, but now every Loota has the same weapon and every Looted Wagon has two upgrades.

 

I do enjoy the Fearless 'ness of the Orks modified by size (tho it breeds the 'Hidden Power Klaw tactic')

I do enjoy all the fluff in the Codex and

I do enjoy the Special Characters that are NOT Independent Characters.

 

I would love to see more Special Characters in the new Space Wolf Codex.

I would love to continue see the differences between Blood Claws, Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, and Wolf Scouts

(and the differance of the Space Wolves from the other Astartes)

I would love to continue to see the uncommon wargear (upgrades) that the Wolves have!

Frost Blades could be Relic Blades. Wolf Priests could heal still. Rune Priests use a 'psychic hood' and not take up a

Weapon slot.

 

I enjoy the current codex but have a bet with my friend (many beers) about the new codex release date. I hope he wins and it is sooner rather than later.

[Grimfoe]

While we're complaining...what about Rune Priests? I want the new dex because it would be nice to have more than one psychic power and it would be nice if our powers had some sort of function in the game.

 

Also, I want some sort of boost in close combat. In second edition Wolves were close combat gods. Now a tactical squad can whup grey hunters if their sarge has a powerfist and the combat goes poorly. I think our WS needs the boost we had back in second edition. If not, we need something else to gain the same effect. I don't want to be crossing my fingers when I assault any more.

[jamsight]

You have all made excellent points about why we need the update. I surpose it was just an wolf worrying about how we may get royaly screwed, but you are right about Phil Kelly the man can make a codex:)

 

1 of the problems I have right now off the top f my head is frost blades I really don't want them to become strengh 6 power weopens because I fell that is is a bit wrong they started out with the Dark Angels and while they rule as a weopen I think just abit of imagination can make them different maybe something like str 5 but 2+A on the charge this is just something a little different.

 

I am not sure I believe we will keep ower indivieral idenety but we are Space Wolves we are loyal rogues and proud of it ,I just don't want to be a different shade of armour with different weopen load outs

 

more gripes later jamsight

[deedark]

All I want is it updated to match the current BRB

 

I need shiney new models with fur and claws and teeth and stuff

 

D.

[Jonny Wolf]

My reason for a new codex:

 

Bjorn (or some derivitive, 'Ancient Dreadnough'). Word on the street is he'll be FA14, SA13 and some pre-heresy fusion-owning-your-punk-ass weapon system.

 

:)

[Grimfoe]

My reason for a new codex:

 

Bjorn (or some derivitive, 'Ancient Dreadnough'). Word on the street is he'll be FA14, SA13 and some pre-heresy fusion-owning-your-punk-ass weapon system.

 

:)

 

Ok....that wouldn't suck.

 

I really like the old model, but in light of the new ven dread models, I suppose we'll need a new bjorn as well.

[Yeti]

My reason for a new codex:

 

Bjorn (or some derivitive, 'Ancient Dreadnough'). Word on the street is he'll be FA14, SA13 and some pre-heresy fusion-owning-your-punk-ass weapon system.

 

:P

 

Ok....that wouldn't suck.

 

I really like the old model, but in light of the new ven dread models, I suppose we'll need a new bjorn as well.

 

The rumour sounds interesting ... it'll cost like 300pts though! Our Ven is already seriously undercosted vs the SM variant.

 

As for a new model ... By russ don't use the Ven Dred from the SM range ... it is butt ugly. ^_^ :yuck:

[jamsight]

Stay on topic guys :tu:

 

As for updated models we'll get standard space marine spure with a huge wolf frame like the Dark Angels, but this might be differcult because of blood claws, I haven't bought any Assault marnies lately so can't picture the frame load out in my head but it wouldn't surprise me becuase there is nothing wrong will that (save money and modes). you can bet your ale seat that plastic wolf guard on a deffo an a new metal Ragnar would be very nice too

[Ullr Direfang]

My reason for a new codex:

 

Bjorn (or some derivitive, 'Ancient Dreadnough'). Word on the street is he'll be FA14, SA13 and some pre-heresy fusion-owning-your-punk-ass weapon system.

 

^_^

 

Ok....that wouldn't suck.

 

I really like the old model, but in light of the new ven dread models, I suppose we'll need a new bjorn as well.

 

The rumour sounds interesting ... it'll cost like 300pts though! Our Ven is already seriously undercosted vs the SM variant.

 

As for a new model ... By russ don't use the Ven Dred from the SM range ... it is butt ugly. <_< B)

 

really quick: if he is 300 points, he probably wont die fast.

 

back to the OP:

everything has been said. Rune Priests and equipment are big points for me. and making it so i no longer have to fight for my right to play the army of my choice,

 

I would love to see more Special Characters in the new Space Wolf Codex.

i wouldn't be surprised if we get somewhere around 5, if not more. GW seems to be throwing tons of characters in their books. other then bjorn i would love to see a guy like Ranulf come back.

[jamsight]

Yes the HQ choices do need updating along with what they come with, the armoury is abit of a state and the blood claw bikers need replaceing with Greyhunters ( If I was a bloodclaw biker and was promoted I would take the bike with me )

[Grimfoe]

In the original WD release and in the second edition codex Wolves had a lot more character. Wolf Scouts were newly promoted aspirants, not ready for the Blood Claws and they were led by a Grey Hunter (similar to the Ragnar books). Long Fangs were expensive, but gained some mild special abilities and a point of BS. Even the character of the Wolf Guard has been diluted somewhat.

 

I'd like to see that pack-like formation make a come back. Let the Blood Claws be led by a veteran space wolf. A grey hunter that's been promoted to sergeant. Less than a Long Fang, but more than a Hunter. Let even the Hunters be led by a similar sergeant (complete with an extra attack). I'd like to see GH squads that could split in two, one led by the Hunter sarge and the other by a Wolf Guard Pack Leader.

 

Stuff like that would be cool. A different organization that would make us stand out without distorting our character or crippling us tactically.

[Grey Mage]

IMHO we have an organization that makes us stand out without distorting our character.

 

Who else has a min squad size of six? No one. Who else can throw down 16 PA bodies as a single squad? Chaos... but no loyalists.

 

I think that if you like the idea of a sarge with the bloodclaws that the option is there. Same with the Grey Hunters.

 

I do agree that long fangs should have a higher BS for their pricing. I figure 21pts, and givem BS 5 and two wounds, but thats just me.

[Hfran Morkai]

I think one of the very few problems is the cost of a Grey Hunter squad. For a tactical squad you pay 170 points for ten men with frag/krak grenades, a flamer and a missile launcher/heavy bolter or a mulitmelta. To create the same squad with the same equipment and stats we needI dont actually have my dex so points are estimated ;

 

Wolf guard pack leader with frag/krak, bolter and chainsword (35 Points)

9 Grey Hunters with 8 bolters, frag/krak (188 points)

Flamer (6 points)

 

229 points total and no heavy weapon (I don't care about the heavy weapon but that's still a larger points difference effectively)

 

Right so thats 59 points difference and what rules do we get? Counter attack (not useful for bolter grey hunters), true grit (awesome), acute senses (not as awesome as initially appears). Our rule for being outnumbered in close combat has gone and blood fued only works against other units which also have the rule. At my club people argue that they are pointy but I can take two power weapons in my Grey Hunter squads, yes I can but that is more points.

 

I think that Grey Hunters need to be reduced in points cost.

 

Another problem is that we as the fightiest chapter have WS5 for our Lords whereas SM captains have WS6. They hit the combat oriented lord on a 3+ and we hit them on a 4+ unless we take a WTN?

[Grey Mage]

Well you can drop that squad to under 200pts if you dont take the silly grenades.... thats how I keep my packs affordable. Only small assault hunter packs need frag grenades and frankly none of my packs need krack grenades... either a powerfist or a meltagun thank ye.

[Hfran Morkai]

I take krak grenades because I like the 2 attacks with power weapons (my squad decimated a large assault squad) and I recently played someone with 6 dreads and they stomped my boys good. It's the fact that with a bolter they are 18 points compared to 16 points for a normal marine. That would be fine but they have these lovely weapons and grenades. And with SW I rarely take flamers as I prefer meltaguns and a single plasma gun so thats more points.

[Grey Mage]

I dont take flamers either... and I agree, two extra points each is a bit... but remember that if all you got was true grit for those points it would be worth it. Now, your right counterattack doesnt matter for those who use bolter and powerweapons exclusively, but for those of us who, like myself, use a fist and sometimes a bolterless pack it can be very important and rather useful.

 

Have you considered trying a WG with a PF? Just a thought.

 

The strength of a GH squad is not the same as a tactical squad, but I find that mine... bolters or no, are worth the prices I pay for them... between 200-220pts. Then again, I run 10 without a wolfgaurd as my standard... thats where a lack of efficiency tends to come in IMHO.

[Hfran Morkai]

Two points would be fine but that is without being equipped with grenades. I would even be happy with a 3 point difference as with the old sm dex but five points is too much for a bolter armed pack