Grimtooth Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 So in Codex EoT, the Mark of the Wulfen when tossed on a Wolf Guard pack leader, the 3+ hit and be hit in close combat then applies to the unit he is in. How is this looking compared to other races in assault? Does hitting on 3+ all the time worth getting hit 3+ all the time? I could run a WGPL with my Storm Claw pack and toss a set of lightning claws on him. Without powerfists, I would have 5 LC attacks and 40 regular attacks hitting on 3+, at I4, and Str4. Of course I am getting hit back on 3+ as well. Help? LOL! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 So in Codex EoT, the Mark of the Wulfen when tossed on a Wolf Guard pack leader, the 3+ hit and be hit in close combat then applies to the unit he is in. How is this looking compared to other races in assault? Does hitting on 3+ all the time worth getting hit 3+ all the time? I could run a WGPL with my Storm Claw pack and toss a set of lightning claws on him. Without powerfists, I would have 5 LC attacks and 40 regular attacks hitting on 3+, at I4, and Str4. Of course I am getting hit back on 3+ as well. Help? LOL! I always do it... mainly for this simple reason... with all of my attacks, and with my armour and initiative, most of the time when something goes before me it'll hit on 3's anyways, but those that strike slower, well they'll likely not be there long after. I never had a problem with it, and even so, up to 8 power fist attacks from one guy will clean up the rest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1938957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 So in Codex EoT, the Mark of the Wulfen when tossed on a Wolf Guard pack leader, the 3+ hit and be hit in close combat then applies to the unit he is in. How is this looking compared to other races in assault? Does hitting on 3+ all the time worth getting hit 3+ all the time? I could run a WGPL with my Storm Claw pack and toss a set of lightning claws on him. Without powerfists, I would have 5 LC attacks and 40 regular attacks hitting on 3+, at I4, and Str4. Of course I am getting hit back on 3+ as well. Help? LOL! I always do it... mainly for this simple reason... with all of my attacks, and with my armour and initiative, most of the time when something goes before me it'll hit on 3's anyways, but those that strike slower, well they'll likely not be there long after. I never had a problem with it, and even so, up to 8 power fist attacks from one guy will clean up the rest. Yea I have spent the past hour play testing army lists with dice only in assault and because of our armor and toughness, getting hit on a 3+ is not as bad as I thought it might be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1939001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 The hitting on 3+ is also great against Walkers when using Meltabombs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1939067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
13thWarrior Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 My Gaming Club is gearing up for Astronomi-Con up in Canuck and people brought up the Eye of Terror Codex. Do the tournaments that you (all) play in allow 13th Company? The Lost and the Damned were a favorite over here, then when not allowed, they all went away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1939074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 No one around here has asked to play 13nth company... but the subject has come up and most people have said theyd surely allow it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1939098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 No one around here has asked to play 13nth company... but the subject has come up and most people have said theyd surely allow it. My LGG never allows me to bring out my 13th company again, they refuse to get clobbered. :) It was my best played army, I had the best win ratio with them and in 5th edition never achieved a loss. I shall miss them, and I hope they bring them back. (dear god don't turn this into an I wish topic please) I had tau hit me back on 3's... there was 1 guy left, and he actually killed a guy... he was still rolling on snake eyes, but my poor poor 21 pt model. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1939407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 MotW is worth it for the sheer number of extra attacks, and the attacks that always hit. Avatar? Who cares. Wraithlord? Screws to 'em. Wyches? Tee-hee! The place MotW shines the greatest is against things with a much higher WS than us already. That includes Daemons, Khorne Chaos, Dark Eldar, some Eldar, Harlies, et cetera. Why? Because everything else that can't do anything in assault (Fire warriors, Guard, et cetera) don't gain almost anything from hitting on a 3+. Specifically, look at the strength and toughness of these enemies. While the math might be complex, the simplest way to think of it is to just acknowledge you'll be hitting more, and they'll be hitting more. Against certain armies, is it more beneficial to be hit more than to hit more? It's just the opinion in this old Wulfen's eyes that it's far better to hit as much as possible, as it's been said earlier upthread. Take the Mark proudly, and slaughter, mate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1939518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 MotW is worth it for the sheer number of extra attacks, and the attacks that always hit. Avatar? Who cares. Wraithlord? Screws to 'em. Wyches? Tee-hee! The place MotW shines the greatest is against things with a much higher WS than us already. That includes Daemons, Khorne Chaos, Dark Eldar, some Eldar, Harlies, et cetera. Why? Because everything else that can't do anything in assault (Fire warriors, Guard, et cetera) don't gain almost anything from hitting on a 3+. Specifically, look at the strength and toughness of these enemies. While the math might be complex, the simplest way to think of it is to just acknowledge you'll be hitting more, and they'll be hitting more. Against certain armies, is it more beneficial to be hit more than to hit more? It's just the opinion in this old Wulfen's eyes that it's far better to hit as much as possible, as it's been said earlier upthread. Take the Mark proudly, and slaughter, mate. Now going over 5th Edition along with the 13th Co entry; When the WGPL has the Mark, the WGPL gets the d3 attacks and then the whole squad gets the 3+ hit bonus and fearless/no morale check/etc/etc. Now if my Wolf Lord joins, he will get get the 3+ hit bonus and the fearless/no morale check/etc/etc right? As long as he is with the unit he gets the benefits of the WGPL is what I get from the new 5th Edition rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1939595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 *sneaks up behind Wolf and then pounces, clobbering him with the RS and ES* That's for the April Fool's Day thread you git! :angry: :angry: *dusts off, then turns to OP* But he won't get +d3A in close combat... Why wouldn't you just give the Wulf Lord the MotW himself? That way he gets +d3A, making for a potential 9A on the charge (4 base, 3 MotW, 1 for 2CCW, 1 for charging) or a nasty 10 when charged (4 base, 3 MotW, 1 for 2CCW, 1 for Counter-Attack, 1 for Wolf Pelt). The people these days, they just don't... *mumbles something about whelps, then farts dust* :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1939773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Bran, your age is showing again. You can give any number of pack leaders and characters the MotW in 13nth co. There is no 0-1 like in the standard codex... because they all have it anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1940039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 *sneaks up behind Wolf and then pounces, clobbering him with the RS and ES* That's for the April Fool's Day thread you git! :) ;) *dusts off, then turns to OP* But he won't get +d3A in close combat... Why wouldn't you just give the Wulf Lord the MotW himself? That way he gets +d3A, making for a potential 9A on the charge (4 base, 3 MotW, 1 for 2CCW, 1 for charging) or a nasty 10 when charged (4 base, 3 MotW, 1 for 2CCW, 1 for Counter-Attack, 1 for Wolf Pelt). The people these days, they just don't... *mumbles something about whelps, then farts dust* :D It is just a matter of budgeting into wargear costs. If I want to take dual LC on him, it gets a little spendy. If I just run him with a frost blade, not so bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1940042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I know that. I just meant why not give him MotW so he can get an extra d3A. I must not have worded it too well. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1940905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voracioustigger Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Mathhammer be damned! It's not all about mathhammering! How do you mathhammer Fearless vs. Ld9? To be honest, I'd pay 20pts just to make all my 13th company units fearless. 1 Turn of running can take a footslogging unit pretty much out of the game. +D3 attacks is huge too (especially with the Fist nerf). I like to give my teleporting Grey Slayer squad a WGL w/ TermArmor, Runic charm, combi-melta, MotW, Chainfist, Pelt. That's something NOTHING wants to charge or even be near. Also, as to the above poster (the old man), I really don't like giving MotW to ICs - You don't gain from the 3+ often enough, but having Nobs/Sergents/etc w/ fists hitting on 3's is scary (not the same issue w/ wolf guard). Also, it's 10pts more, and with all of your units already being fearless... MotW is essentially buying you +D3 attacks... and I just don't think that's worth 30pts. That 30pts is actually doing LESS for you than the 20pt MotW on squad leaders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1941129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Also, as to the above poster (the old man), I really don't like giving MotW to ICs - You don't gain from the 3+ often enough, but having Nobs/Sergents/etc w/ fists hitting on 3's is scary (not the same issue w/ wolf guard). Also, it's 10pts more, and with all of your units already being fearless... MotW is essentially buying you +D3 attacks... and I just don't think that's worth 30pts. That 30pts is actually doing LESS for you than the 20pt MotW on squad leaders. I agree with this. My wolf lord is already doing a great deal of attacks that he gets to reroll wounds on and giving my WGPL the mark will bring him on par with the wolf lord in a sense being able to hit on 3+. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1941358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Fah, you'll rue the lack of MotW on your Lord one day. Just when you need one more attack, it won't be there! Rue it darn you! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1941367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Well theres also the option for wulfen troops it unlocks, wich can be worth the 30pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1941506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Ok after being point out by a friend and me reading the Big red book , in page 44 (small version) in the NO RETREAT section : "Morale checks for losing an assault or to automatically pass them for some reason (they may have the fearless special rule be subject to a vow or some other special rule ) . when they lost a close combat , they are in danger of being dragged down by victorious enemy despite thier determination to hang on. THESE UNITS WILL SUFFER A NUMBER OF WOUNDS equal to the number their side has lost in Combat by" Now the question is , Mark of the Wufen seems like its subject to it !?! Is this true ? PS: I was surprised as i thought MOTW wasn't fearless rule and didn't know the red book had this new rule , so i was surprised today playing 13th >< (which i Lost to normal marines.........again.........>< Russ forgive me) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1941631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Ok after being point out by a friend and me reading the Big red book , in page 44 (small version) in the NO RETREAT section : "Morale checks for losing an assault or to automatically pass them for some reason (they may have the fearless special rule be subject to a vow or some other special rule ) . when they lost a close combat , they are in danger of being dragged down by victorious enemy despite thier determination to hang on. THESE UNITS WILL SUFFER A NUMBER OF WOUNDS equal to the number their side has lost in Combat by" Now the question is , Mark of the Wufen seems like its subject to it !?! Is this true ? PS: I was surprised as i thought MOTW wasn't fearless rule and didn't know the red book had this new rule , so i was surprised today playing 13th >< (which i Lost to normal marines.........again.........>< Russ forgive me) yes it is subject to this rule. the big red book covers it by also including the wording of "or subject to a vow or some other special rule". That alone covers the EoT codex entry for MotW as a special rule. No biggie really since you get to use regular saves and works great against lesser demons who want to try to keep you in cc despite losing: "I won the assault!" "I have one lesser demon left and he is fearless so you are stuck in close combat." "I beat you in assault by four, roll four 5+ saves." "?!?!?!?!?!" "I am no longer stuck in close combat." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1941863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 well thats if we won , but if we lost >< yeah i guess marine saves arent bad (also thinking evilly with 15 wulfens with Sternhammer in it......."warden of the lost" ability ! XD hehehhe 3+ then 4 +) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164837-13th-co-mark-of-the-wulfen-math-needed/#findComment-1942295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.