ThePublic Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Hey Brethren, So there I was, proud Crimson Fist that I am, facing down a mob of orks, as is proper. Me- 1 Land raider w/ extra armor 1 squad termies w/ assault cannon +Generic Li w/ Gate of Infin and Void, 1 tac unit-missle and flamer ala rhino, 2 5 man scouts. Him, Roughly 80 orcs w/ zzap gun, and big cannon, big mek boy ala shield and one big nob and one wierdboy and 18 kroot mercs the points were to be 1000 lots of cover throughout the board, 5 (yeah is said 5) objectives now the question- he stated that as long as a few of the mobs not attached to the mekboy were within 6" of the mekboy, the whole mob got the force field effect (stretching it roughly 40" across the board. Needless to say, I didn't have much of a chance fighting this large mob w/ 25 guys. Points to know and help fighting mob armies is always enjoyed. Thank you brethren, the xenos must be put down! ThePublic :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Rafen Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Wait kroot mercs? how can orks use kroot? was he proxying the models? i dont think that the force field cant be stretched that far. I have played orks with force fields and the players never did that. So unless im wrong you were cheated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Scorpion Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 There is no way that can be right. I could see it if half the unit was inside the 6" area but just a couple of boyz, :huh: . Ask if you could read the codex. Also, smash the Xenos brother :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom O'Bedlam Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 as an ork player is things like this that really piss me off. no wonder everyone thinks we have a gyp codex if people cheat like this. i had to intervene in a game the other day where I saw someone driving 19" (turbo boost and red paint) then assaulting out of the vehicle, essentially giving his nobs mob a 25" charge range. idiot. sorry :lol: as to your question, no its only the models within 6" that get the cover save. next time you see him, you should explain to him in no uncertain terms that he is a cheat. with a chainsword if necessary Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
==Me== Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 as an ork player is things like this that really piss me off. no wonder everyone thinks we have a gyp codex if people cheat like this. i had to intervene in a game the other day where I saw someone driving 19" (turbo boost and red paint) then assaulting out of the vehicle, essentially giving his nobs mob a 25" charge range. idiot. Oh please, cheating is cheating, using a KFF is not. It's totally legal, any unit with a model within 6" of the KFF gets the benefit. So he gets a cover save, big deal. Flamers, Incendiary Castellan missiles, Sternguard cover-ignoring rounds, or just sheer weight of fire will see them off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I believe that orkl codex says all units within 6" of the mekboy, so yes.. any unit with a model within 6" of the mek gets the cover save.. it's like the necron ressurection orb. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fausto2071 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 all units get a 5+ cover save when within 6" of the mek but lose it during an assault Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I believe that orkl codex says all units within 6" of the mekboy, so yes.. any unit with a model within 6" of the mek gets the cover save.. it's like the necron ressurection orb. Picked the Ork codex from the shelf and... indeed, page 34. all units within 6"of a mek with KFF have a 5+ cover save....... sausy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Jimmy Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Yeah, orks hoards are horrible to fight, spam flamers wherever possible and stay out of CC. I have both space marines and orks, and my orks would destroy my marines. (And sometimes do). Although I find my orks vulnerable to a squad of speeders loaded out with heavy bolters and assault cannons, 21 high strength shots a turn makes squads of thirty into squads of 0 pretty quick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droma Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Ditto with the above posters about the force field. This is annoying but you can still counter the tactic by massed fire. Anything that fires a lot of shots like heavy bolters, storm bolters, AC's, missile launchers, or flamers to thin the mob. It's still only a 5+ save after all. It's harder to deal with in small games as most of the units he has on the board are going to get the save while you don't have much shooting. It's especially hard with the list the OP was running seeing as how he had such little actual shooting and very low model counts. An LRC or bike squads would have served him better. Or a HB/ML dread or pred with HB sponsons. Heck a whirlwind would have been nice even. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePublic Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 I don't think he is an intentional cheat (really pretty nice guy afterall). Now when that 30 boy mob assaults that squad of 5 scouts, just how many rolls is that looking like (he was throwning grips of 20-30 die a intial assaul). Sorry for the ?s, just haven't played since, o the first edition and getting back in (the game isn't anything like it ws boy-os) Thanks The Public Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droma Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Your looking at 4 attacks per ork. Ork's have base 2 attacks, +1 for close combat weapons, +1 for charge. On top of that they have furious assault so higher init(which doesn't matter vs marines) and a higher str. If he could get all 30 of his boys into range on the initial charge you'd be looking at 120 attacks. If you have to take a charge make sure you aren't facing full strength mobs and try and funnel them in using terrain so they can't get all of their boyz in the 2" of a model in base to base contact. This will help you survive that initial charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 welcome to the BnC - welcome back to WH40K, and nice sex pistols ref. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Humongous Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Yep, it gives the whole unit a 5+ save if the unit (IE, one model from the unit) is within 6". Not really that big a deal if (as you say) your table had a lot of cover already; the 4+ cover save is probably better. One tactic to consider might have been putting EVERYTHING in reserves. Termies deepstrike, scouts flank, tacticals and LR just move on your side later in the game. If you come in 24+ inches away from the orcs, they aren't much of a threat. Not saying it would win the game, but it would be more interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 as an ork player is things like this that really piss me off. no wonder everyone thinks we have a gyp codex if people cheat like this. i had to intervene in a game the other day where I saw someone driving 19" (turbo boost and red paint) then assaulting out of the vehicle, essentially giving his nobs mob a 25" charge range. idiot. sorry :) as to your question, no its only the models within 6" that get the cover save. next time you see him, you should explain to him in no uncertain terms that he is a cheat. with a chainsword if necessary Yeah, that pisses me off soooooo much when everyone, including certain stubborn smebodies think we have a real cheesey codex when in fact, we just have some nice rules that you use to the maximum and then you use them to maximum effect. Say in non-apoc, we can have 73 bikez zooming rund the field, mimicing DE to the max, and people say we cheet. :D Also, somethings people tend to forget. While a lot of people out there like the hard-armoured,-gunna-win-your-war-fer-ya guys, there is a nice section of the hobby that likes the wieghty numbers. Always kit out your army with 2 of each specia weapon in each tactical squad so you're ready for anything the enemy throws at you. Also, the 40k hobby needs cheaters. It needs dirty people that either couldn't be bothered to k=learn the rules or just completely ignore them, it needs people to spice up games and for you to put them down, even though they do cheat. But most importantly, they are needed to remind ourselves that if we follow the rules, we will win! Also so we can laugh in there faces ;). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I don't think he is an intentional cheat (really pretty nice guy afterall). Now when that 30 boy mob assaults that squad of 5 scouts, just how many rolls is that looking like (he was throwning grips of 20-30 die a intial assaul). Sorry for the ?s, just haven't played since, o the first edition and getting back in (the game isn't anything like it ws boy-os) Thanks The Public No, thats about right... each boy has 2 attacks based... paired weapons... charging... thats 120 attacks on the charge without a nob. 6 pts a peice too... orks are tough. Terminators at a thousand points is frankly what screwed you over. You had half your points value in a single unit and its transport... not enough bolters to get the job done, no other artillery... its just not going to cut it against any horde army... let alone T4 orks. As for the forcefield, as others have said he played it properly... any unit within 6" gets it. It could be worse... a squad of bikers would have granted the whole army a 4+ cover save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1941525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleth Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 First off Welcome and Welcome back. Next I appologize if this seems rude, but try to forget everything you knew about 40k in first ed, fifth is so different most of it wont even apply. Looking at it the biggest problem you had was a lack of men on the board. Switching the LR for a LRC would have helped, but, as I think was posted above, having half your force tied up in 7 units put a crimp in your ability to kill the horde. Next time I'd put the points into a dakka pred and a whirlwind and/or thunderfire cannon, another squad of marines, and telion in one of those scout squads. Telion's ability to snipe out particular models is just gold. Basically you're hitting twice and wounding at least once from 36", so by the time they get within range of your regular guns you have a pretty decent chance of having a dead mek thus no more force field. It still doesn't eliminate the ability of the rest of the horde to grant cover saves to itself ;) , but at least it eliminated the cover that screening front line was getting. From there even basic marines can reap a decent harvest of orks. But liberal application of castellan missiles and air burst shells from the previously mentioned HS choices, or a small unit of stern guard laying down dragon fire rounds will do some nasty damage. Also always always remember the golden rule of orks DON'T GET CHARGED. If you can't avoid it though make darn sure that you charge them. Yes even if it means taking that piddling squad of sniper scouts into CC. Orks are just crazy damn ridiculous if they get the charge, they go at SM init and have SM str. So if you can prevent a charge you might lose the combat, but you'll probably kill more and if you get lucky maybe just maybe you'll survive into next turn and screw up their movement. I know 90 attacks at S3 suck but it's a whole lot better then 120 at S4 I4. Hope some of that helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1942219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praeger Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Pk, so to clear up some obvious misunderstandings with ork rules: 1 - power field on the mek gives every UNIT with a MODEL within 6" a cover save - not that big a deal really, ever tried to roll a 5+ save? your still going to loose lots of boys. 2 - Ork BIKERS give only THEMSELVES a 4+ cover save. Alot of people are still thinking of the old rules when anything behind them got this save, but that is no longer the case. 3 - GRETCHIN are what can give a cover save to a whole ork army - as they are small models you can draw LOS over them to behind units - however since your shooting past the Gretchin, as per the rulebook, they will provide a cover save to those units behind Also, the Kroot where legal as they are a chapter aproved allied unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1942234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleth Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Praeger, The 4+ is provided by any unit that obscures LOS to any other unit excluding MC and Vehicles (which require a 50% coverage to get the save.) So a Nob biker squad can still provide a 4+ to any thing behind it if you're drawing LOS through it. You probably will be able to draw LOS through it since a smart war boss will spread out his bikers to maximize this effect and limit the damage of pie plates. The reason so many of the people i know get upset as marines over the +5 save is that you can conga line the orks out from the mek across most of the board and still get the save from the KFF. This negates the marines advantage of blowing through orks armor since they still get a save. This limits our ability to take them down to manageable sizes before they charge us with their furious charge. Then even if you decide to ignore the squad infront becuase they have a +5 save and shoot one behind them... well now the squad infront is giving everyone behind them a 4+!!! yuck and yikes. Gretchin are a "cheap" unit that give orks a cover save, but when you include the runt herder they shoot up to being almost the cost of a regular ork so it's debatable if they are really a value or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1942271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Gothard Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 This isn't rule related, but maybe a tip for fighting him next time. If he's got a 40" line of Orks (with 80 guys thats what, 2 per inch?) just focus on the squads at the end of the line. He will have to keep coherency, and so that 40" line will start to shorten fast. If you keep picking on one end of the line, the guys 40" out will have a 40" slog towards you into your constantly firing guns. Since your army is fairly mobile (and he's foot slogging it) you can swing around to which ever end of the line gets shorter faster. At least, on paper anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1942899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 as an ork player is things like this that really piss me off. no wonder everyone thinks we have a gyp codex if people cheat like this. i had to intervene in a game the other day where I saw someone driving 19" (turbo boost and red paint) then assaulting out of the vehicle, essentially giving his nobs mob a 25" charge range. idiot. Sure he didn't use a road? That does allow a Trukk or Battlewagon(OT) to go 18" +RP" and still charge. Otherwise naughty him ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165001-ever-get-the-feeling-that-ya-been-cheated/#findComment-1942910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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