Brother Argent Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Now this is the rough idea of my new Renegade chapter. Name is still WIP as is colour scheme. This is my (very) basic dot point ideas. Gotta head off to work so have probably missed something with my idea. Let my know what you think, oh and check out my Loyalist IA: Leopards Argent. Black Patriarchs Fluff: Blood Angels Geneseed Extremely pious chapter After every major victory Chapter Master requested to view Emperor Denied every time by Custodes. Begin to doubt Emperor’s existence or divinity. As battle more and more and constantly blown off trying to see the Big E, doubts continue to grow. Suffer crushing defeat at the hands of traitors (always pray before battle, doesn’t seem to help) In debrief doubts are expressed over Emperor. Many in the Chapter agree to his divinity. Chapter Master, after eventual victory over traitors, asks to see Emperor one last time, is denied. Next battle decide not to pray for Big E’s help, win easily and convincingly. Doubts grow even more, a few more battles without prayer go well. Chapter throw of Imperial rule, but don’t make big deal over it. Continue to fight for Imperial people but not for High Lords or Terra. Chapter attacks other Chapter as a final test to prove beyond doubt. Win till overwhelmed by support. Leave home planet to go hide somewhere less Imperial. Chaos cults begin to form in Chapter. Death Company become Chapters possessed as their will power is reduced when go all crazy. Still maintain loyalist formation of 1st Company etc. Models: Black Templar Pieces Loyalist/traitor mix of pieces Loyalist squad markings etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom O'Bedlam Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 you've piqued my interest. I'd like to hear more. Not 100% convinced on the name though, Patriarchs seems an odd word to choose, who are they the patriarchs of? your idea for fluff makes me think of a line from the beginning of Dogma "I think god is dead" "the sign of a true catholic" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1941582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Kharn Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 this has caught my curiosity and i have had a LOT of trouble deciding whether to be loyalist or traitor or what loyalist chapter or which codex so i have a question which codex is to be used and what is the paint scheme? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1941628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I have a few points: The Custodes reserve the right to allow people to see the Emperor, not even the High Lords can get into thier without thier permission, so your chapter master is fussing over nothing. Also outright religous worship equating the Emperor as a god is rare in the astartes, most view him as a man. Also if they threw off Imperial rule and attacked another planet they would be melta'd by the Inq as sooon as possible. It also seems that everybody and thier Grandma plays a chapter of loyalist marines who don't serve the High Lords and fight for human rights etc. etc. It was cool when the Soul Drinkers first did it, but now it's gettign old. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1941707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosedragon Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I like the chapter master requesting to see the emperor and being denied, that's a cool idea. Which chapters don't worship the emperor? every book I've read has given me the impression that the fluff about space marines not worshipping the emperor isn't backed up by fluff. Your chapter should refer to the emperor as the big e. That's awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1941892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Caesar_ Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Which chapters don't worship the emperor? every book I've read has given me the impression that the fluff about space marines not worshipping the emperor isn't backed up by fluff. The vast majority of Space Marine Chapters do not worship the Emperor as a god. Instead they revere him as a man of extraordinary power and will as well as a type of grandfather figure, somewhat like the reverence accorded to one's ancestors in various Asian and ancient European cultures. The Index Astartes books have many mentions of this in the "Beliefs" sections of the various Chapter descriptions, and I'm sure it's mentioned elsewhere in other GW material. This reverence does amount to a sort of ancestor worship in many Chapters but others choose to revere rather than worship. In most cases, however, the Emperor is not seen as a god which has led the Space Marines and the Ecclisiarchy to butt heads many times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1942022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Yeh Space Marines don't worship the emperor as a god only as a man If they think the emperor is dead/etc. then they would fight the empire generally, i see no reason why they would fight the high lords? i have no problem with emperor is dead->chaos but emperor is dead -> fight the high lords? -> chaos ... makes no sense Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1942028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 The Emperor? Yeah... hes my grandpa. Thats about it. Hes really cool, hes got alot of stories, and he has a really cool house. Problem is he asked me to watch the house for him... and now everyone wants to squat in it. So I have to kick them out, forcibly. The worst part is my uncle and my younger brother who tried to trash the house and let in the squatters... I now have a restraining order and a shotgun. Thats how a marine veiws the emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1942128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Argent Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 Well I don't necessarily mean fight the High Lords, more Emperor is not real -> Seek to destroy Imperium (To free humankind, to destroy those whom mislead/betrayed them, just for laughs). Perhaps you could say that they don't seek to destroy the Imperium or the High Lords, just the Ecclesiarchy For Codex I going to use Chaos, but only those units I can transpose over to represent Loyalist Units or devolved forms there-of. My idea is that the Chapter is just starting to turn to Chaos, probably shelter near the Eye and have just started to give up on the reasons they went Renegade in the first place. Instead they are just starting to forget nobility, or purpose, and give into the urge simply to rule over those weaker then themselves. There in the transitionary faze. As for worshiping the Big E, thats one of the things that made the Chapter different before they went all emo. As a Catholic myself I know how confronting it can be to have ones faith seemingly denied or disproved. It can be and is a extremely confronting feeling, to wrestle with your own inner doubt. Of course I got through my period of doubt with my faith stronger. These guys... not so much... Oh and the idea isn't that' The Emperor is dead' its almost ' the Emperor doesn't exist, might not ever have.' I don't really like the name either. Doesn't seem Blood Angel or Traitory enough. Any suggestions on that would be sweet. And that got to be a record. Seven replies in under 24 hours. The Chaos Gods must favour me... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1942432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom O'Bedlam Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Oh and the idea isn't that' The Emperor is dead' its almost ' the Emperor doesn't exist, might not ever have.' that doesn't make much sense logically though, they know the emperor existed because his blood runs in their veins. haha "my grandfather doesn't exist, and might not ever have" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1946745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Argent Posted April 8, 2009 Author Share Posted April 8, 2009 Well maybe he used to exist, but not anymore. Maybe the whole "OOOh the Emperor ascended and watches us from his Golden Throne, or just rots in it..." is a big lie spread be the Ecclisiarchy as an easy way to tyrannically impose their rule on the citizens of the Imperium. Maybe Horus killed the Big E and then died himself, and there was no Golden Throne. Just think, (read some really silly) people today believe that Winston Churchhill, Richard cour de Leon and Charles Dickons were fictional figures and that fictional characters such as Oliver Twist or Romeo and Juliet were real. And there is a really big time difference between us and ol' Winston and Joe Marine and the Big E. If people today can claim that Jesus or Buddha weren't real or just ordinary people when they have massive religions based around them, whats to stop a super human warrior whose constant pleas for divine aid went unanswered from simply saying"well, he must not exist". Remember, we are all supposed to be descendant from Adam and Eve according to three of the biggest world religions, yet a lot of people don't believe that. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165017-black-patriarchs/#findComment-1946890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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