andyundivided Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 I was playing against my lovely fiancee last night, and we came across an interesting loophole in the rules. Say I took a unit of Khorne Berzerkers (or something subject to Frenzy) which HAS to charge when its in range, and I see a nice tasty isolated unit of guardsmen, so I decide to have my Berzerkers run, which takes them within charge range. Now, the rules say they can't charge, because they ran, but the rules on frenzy say they HAVE to charge. It doesn't seem right to me that Thirrus Skulltaker (my KB Champion) would go hammering towards the Guardsmen going "IMPERIAL LAPDOGS!! PREPARE TO DIE.....in a few minutes because we just ran towards you......" So, thoughts? Comments? Ideas? Headaches with pictures? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arc Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 In the newest CSM codex Berserkers do not have Frenzy ( now Rage in the Universal Special Rules ). Regardless, any unit that runs cannot assault unless it has the Fleet special rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1942930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Na that's pretty much the whole of if. If you Run and don't have the Fleet special rule, no charge is possible, even if you are under the influence of Rage (the new version of Frenzy). Khorne Berzerkers no longer have that special rule anyway, so it works out for you! In fact, the only unit I know to have Rage is Blood Angel Death Company. Also interesting with the Rage USR is that units must move towards the nearest visible enemy each turn and can choose to run, but don't need to assault at all, only consolidate after an assault toward the nearest enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1942936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyundivided Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 Hmmm....that pretty much makes not a jot of sense. Why would a bloodthirsty band of psychopaths just stop dead in front of their targets just because they ran towards them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1942941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Because the Rules say so. Hell, fluffwise Ulrik the Slayer got saluted by Angron at the 1st War of Armageddon and he doesn't get anything special for it. If you get saluted for your skill in battle by the 2nd most deadly fighter, who happens to be the Chosen of Khorne, you're obviously one of the toughest fighters out there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1942948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 According to the Space Wolves FaQ Blood Claws (who are also required by their rules to charge if there is an enemy within 6") are not allowed to rapid fire their bolt pistols if they have enemies within 6", as that would prevent them from charging. Going by this they would also not be allowed to run if their movement had already brought them within 6" of enemy models. Hmmm....that pretty much makes not a jot of sense. Why would a bloodthirsty band of psychopaths just stop dead in front of their targets just because they ran towards them? Because not minding how the game is divided into different phases with separate portions of movement, it is not physically possible for normal infantry to move any farther than either "moving + assaulting" or "moving + running". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1942959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Actually I might be being thick here but I don't see where the Rage rule (page 76 BRB) says you have to assault. Which is really really odd... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1943010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Yeah Rage is kind of funny. Move up to the enemy because you are in such a 'rage' you cant wait to rip them apart, but then decide you dont want to assault after you get there. Also, Running is supposed to represent the extra distance models can go if they push themselves, and assault moves are basicly the same thing. Running movement and assault movement unfolding in a 'movie' fashion would happen at the same time more or less. I have to say, after reading the reasoning behind LOTR War of the Ring's random charge distance, I really like that mechanic. Make running and assaulting something like 3+1d3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1943047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyundivided Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 Yeah Rage is kind of funny. Move up to the enemy because you are in such a 'rage' you cant wait to rip them apart, but then decide you dont want to assault after you get there. Running is supposed to represent the extra distance models can go if they push themselves, and assault moves are basicly the same thing. My point exactly!! Khorne Berzerkers don't have second thoughts!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1943099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yeah Rage is kind of funny. Move up to the enemy because you are in such a 'rage' you cant wait to rip them apart, but then decide you dont want to assault after you get there. Running is supposed to represent the extra distance models can go if they push themselves, and assault moves are basicly the same thing. My point exactly!! Khorne Berzerkers don't have second thoughts!! But Khorne Berzerkers don't need to move towards the closest enemy anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1943291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Humongous Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 OK, but Chaos Spawn do, and can (and usually do) run. So just go through the whole thread and replace "Khorne Berserker" with "Chaos Spawn", and you have the same wierdness, from the same codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1943415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 OK, but Chaos Spawn do, and can (and usually do) run. So just go through the whole thread and replace "Khorne Berserker" with "Chaos Spawn", and you have the same wierdness, from the same codex. But Spawn CAN legally assault after running because they have Fleet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165124-running-into-a-frenzy/#findComment-1943417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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