Ecritter Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [img; background-image:url(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;">http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/whitehand-1.png[/img] The Order of the White Hand are devout worshipers of the god-Emperor born of harsh and humble beginnings. From their base on Zel Primus, word of the Order and its pious teachings are well known to those in power in the Imperium and after centuries of dedicated service they were given the honor of serving as warriors of the divine Emperor.The White Hand Disciples were created and immediately began their holy crusade. Aboard their Strike Cruisers, they fight the enemies of the Imperium without question or regret. They are ever vigilant in their duty, combating all foes and spreading the word. They are Space Marines, and they know no fear.The Order of the White HandIn the days of the Great Crusade and the Heresy that followed, all those that questioned the Emperor or moved against the Imperium were quickly imprisoned and dumped on penal worlds. Separated from humanity, lest their belief spread like a cancer throughout the galaxy. It was their punishment to be locked away until such a time when death took them. They were to be forgotten. Crimes on these penal worlds flourished. Inmates would fall upon each other over food, clothes or sometimes just for fun. Life, if it could be called that, was often harsh and very short. It was hoped that, left to their own demise, they would rid the Imperium of the very threat they had once been by killing each other. The Parable of the White Hand Many wonders and miracles were seen in the days of the Great Teachers. In the fifth year after their arrival, fires raged in one of the subterranean wards, trapping hundreds of inmates. The Great Teachers rushed to aid those trapped inside, but their way was blocked by a great locked iron gate. Inside the ward, the terrified inmates tore at the stone walls with bloodied hands to no avail.Thadeus, leader of the Great Teachers, spat forth holy fire, melting the lock away. Those inmates that could ran through the gate to safety, but smoke and flame had claimed many and they were unable to flee. With no regard for their own safety, the Great Teachers entered the ward to save those they could. Their ragged clothes were scorched and burned as they carried the others out.In the inferno, the the Great Teachers had all been badly burned, but when their followers rushed to bandage their wounds, The leader raised his right hand. Though it had been burned in the fires, it did not blister nor bleed. It was pallid and white, healing before their eyes. “Behold the blessing of the Emperor.” He proclaimed, and the inmates fell down and wept before him. On one such penal world, the Great Teachers arose. They were huge, towering, brutes of immense strength and speed. It is said they brought civilization back to the uncivilized. Crimes around them came to an end, whether it was due to respect or fear is not known. These Great Teachers saw the Emperor as a god among men and as time passed they began to share that belief with the other inmates. They taught them how to free their minds from a world where their bodies were forever locked away. As the years passed, the movement they'd begun became more a religion within the inmate population, They became imprisoned monks and in time most of the inmate population became followers and true believers. Forged on the long forgotten penal world of Zel Primus, the Order of the White Hand was born. For a thousand years after the Great Teachers past on to their after lives, serving the Emperor's will, the Order flourished on Zel Primus. It became a place of peace and serenity within cold subterranean walls. The status of Zel Primus eventually changed and inmates stopped coming, but the Monks of the Order chose to remain in the only place where they'd truly felt at peace. They built a grand monastery above the caverns they'd once been contained, their refuge from a galaxy gone mad. Word of the Order spread slowly and in time pilgrims and settlers began to arrive, seeking the peace they'd heard these monks had found. A few of these pilgrims chose to remain within the Order. In time small amounts of adamantium and precious gem stones were discovered on Zel Primus followed quickly by settlements, mines and trading outposts. In this way the Order survived and slowly grew.The fact that the Great Teachers were in fact imprisoned Space Marines is an understood reality. But the reason for their imprisonment is never questioned. Whatever their crimes, they redeemed themselves and in so doing, saved numerous others on Zel Primus. The White Hand DisciplesFor many years, the Order of the White Hand had been observed by a few individuals on Terra with great interest. They were renown for their devotion and love of the god-Emperor. Segmentum Obscurus, where Zel Primus lay, had always been the home of many of the Imperium's problems, and early in the thirty-sixth millennium of man the Order was added to the great history of the Space Marines of the Legiones Astartes to bolster defenses in this hard pressed region. All members of the Disciples are drawn from worthy initiates within the Order. They undergo the Rites of the Order to join the Disciples as Space Marines. The Disciples remain members of the Order of the White Hand, and as such serve the Order's Grand Master. Though it is possible for a Disciple to become Grand Master it is rare, due to the relatively small size of the Chapter in relation to the Order as a whole. At least once in the Order's history, it has been led by a Disciple. Chapter vessels are manned by brothers from the Order and are considered as equals to the Disciples in every way. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/windowslivewriterannasfavoriteinsta.jpg The Frozen Fortress Monastery of the White Hand In battle, the Disciples fight like zealots for the divine Emperor. They eagerly throw themselves into combat with any enemy of the Imperium, and stand where others falter and fail. Their reputation as fearless warriors continues to grow over the millenia and shows now sign of falling. Not even the recent loss of an entire company, a full fifth of their number, has broken their spirit.As their Cruisers move throughout the galaxy, so does word of the Order. The Disciples spread the word of the divine Emperor and his loyal servants within the Order. Many pilgrims have made their way to Zel Primus after hearing the great deeds of the Disciples.The Hidden TruthAfter being admonished by the Emperor the Primarch of the Word Bearers, Lorgar, changed and turned to the Chaos Gods. He knew that not all his marines would turn to the Chaos Gods, but rather then just slaughtering them like other fallen Primarchs did he had other plans. As pious as Lorgar was, he was just as wise and devious. He sent the marines he knew would not turn to Terra to build a grand temple to the Emperor. The work of these loyal Word Bearers did much to cover Lorgar's plans from suspicious eyes and minds, while Lorgar continued the Great Crusade half-heartedly. When Horus turned against the Emperor in the name of Chaos, Lorgar and his treacherous Word Bearers quickly joined the rebellion, and the worlds they had conquered since their conversion also joined, having been secretly corrupted by the Word Bearers. Lorgar himself lead part of his Legion against Terra, where he helped smash down the realm of the master he had once served with the fanaticism of a zealot. The Word Bearer Space Marines, around one thousands, at the Temple on Terra remained loyal to the Emperor and fought against their Primarch and brothers. In the end, Horus was defeated, and the legions of Chaos were forced to flee. The Word Bearers were also forced to retreat to the Eye of Terror, and there they have remained, returning to the Imperium to raid, pillage, and destroy.After the battle ended and the Heresy was put down, only 18 loyal Word Bearers remained. They surrendered to the Imperial Guard to accept punishment for their brethren. The survivors were held accountable, convicted of belonging to a heretic legion. For some unknown reason they were not put to death but instead locked away on a frozen penal world, forbidden from ever being released and being Space Marines again. Perhaps it was the Imperial Guard that saved their lives, but there are no records to either prove or disprove this, only speculations.The survivors felt true guilt for Lorgar and their brother's actions and were determined to at least try to set things right again. It was those 18 loyal Word Bearers that were the Great Teachers, founders of the Order of the White Hand. Only the highest officials in the Adeptus Terra know the truth and are ever watchful of the Disciples actions for any sign of turning.http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/tactical.png Homeworld The great fortress monastery on Zel Primus remains the only base for the Order and the Disciples. Companies only return to the monastery on two occasions however, to gather new recruits when they are seriously below strength and once every decade all the companies return in a time called The Gathering. The monastery is completely unheated and in the middle of the frozen wastes and visitors find it a frigid place, but true believers find it warm and comforting.To say life for the settlers on Zel Primus is hard would be an understatement. The world is barren for the most part with settlements of miners and tradesmen spread loosely across its surface. Families often send their young to the Monastery to study in the hopes they find a life more fulfilled then their own.Geneseed The source of the geneseed used to create the Space Marines of the White Hand Disciples Chapter is unknown. To the Order and the Disciples, the source is the geneseed is unimportant, only the teachings of the Great Teachers are their guiding light. Some speculate that is the geneseed of the great Primarch Roboute Guilliman, while other say its the geneseed of the Great Teachers themselves. But the truth is no one knows, or if they do they're unwilling to say.Beliefs Mostly because of their tormented beginnings, the Order and the Disciples believe that life is a punishment and only in an honorable death in service to the Emperor can they find peace. They must purge themselves of sin in the hope of finding favor in the eyes of the Emperor. For this reason, members of the Order and the Disciples do not fear death, instead they seek it out. They throw themselves into battle with no regard for their safety and they never retreat from a foe. This doctrine has more then once brought them to near extinction. Recently the entire 4th Company was lost in a battle against Chaos Marines. Rather then retreat when it was clear they were loosing, their company's Master ordered their Strike Cruiser Achilles to ram the much heavier cruiser of the Chaos Marines. The battle was won with the destruction of both cruisers. Grand Master Christobar Tobun "You stand before me now as men. As you undergo the rites of the Order this day, you will die as men. A lucky few will find favor in the eyes of the Emperor and your journey will be done. The rest he will return to me as marines. Those will spend the rest of their days fighting for the honor to return unto him. Praise be the Emperor."Grand Master Christobar Tobun is the present Leader of the Order of the White Hand and the Disciples of the White Hand Chapter of the Space Marines. He carries the honorific title of Defender of the Word as it is his overall responsibility to defend the Order and Disciples from impurity in any way. He has led the White Hand for over 50 years through very difficult times, including the recent complete loss of the 4th Company.Unlike other chapters, leadership of the Disciples doesn't always fall to a Space Marine and Tobun is an example of this. Being the warrior arm of the Order, the Disciples represent only a small portion of the Order as a whole. Each Grand Master secretly chooses his successor from all the masters within the Order including those of the Disciples. When the old incumbent dies, his choice is ceremonially presented with the Axe of the Fallen, a potent icon for the White Hands. Rituals, Rites and RelicsAs a devoutly religious order, the White Hand is rich in rituals, rites and relics. The god-Emperor is the most revered being in existence and honored as such. After the Emperor, the Great Teachers and their teachings are the leading force in the brother's lives.Song of Redemption - Prior to a battle, the Company Chaplain leads the troops in the Song of Redemption. This prepares the company to fight the enemies of the Emperor and die with honor. By the time the battle starts, the Disciples all act with a single mind. They press forward and fight till either the battle is won or they are dead. The sound of their singing continues to reverberate across the battle line as they fight and does not end until the battle is done.Ritual of Combat – From the beginning, the Great Teachers taught the other inmates that a strong body was as important as a strong mind. Like the Shaolin monks of old, they practice the martial arts daily to build their bodies and calm their minds. The Disciples today prefer close quarter combat. Their assault squads are reserved for the most experienced and proficient members of the chapter.Ritual of Cleansing – The flesh is weak and driven to sin. Only through pain can it be purged. The bodies of the members of the Order and Disciples are covered with scars from years of self mutilation and cleansing. Rites of the Order - The final phase of becoming a Space Marine, the gaining of the geneseed. Many that undergo this rite do not survive. It is believed that they have found favor in the eyes of the Emperor. The rest were unworthy and returned as Space Marines so that they may, through heroic deeds, find the much sought favor.Death Rites – Death is celebrated as a release from sin and the torment of life. Funerals are a celebration and not a time of mourning. Anyone outside the Order or Disciples would find this highly disturbing to say the least.Bones of the Great Teachers - The bones of the Great Teachers are objects of reverence. The skulls watch over the main hall of the temple. One bone, normally a finger bone, is presented to each company of the Chapter and adorns its battle standard. Until the loss of the 4th company, no bones have ever been lost.Librium Veritate - The Book of the Truth. Written by the Teachers before their deaths. The original is kept in the monastery and copies are carried by company Chaplains.Organization http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/TobunsAxe-1.png Axe of the Fallen Motto: "Vestigia nulla retrorsum" We do not retreatBattlecry: “Our lives for the Emperor.”Colors: Blue and BoneThe Order of the White Hand and the White Hand Disciples are currently lead by the Grand Master Christobar Tobun and his staff from their Fortress Monastery on Zel Primus. A contingent of Veteren Marines man the temple as well, training new recruits. With their high mortality rate, the Disciples only field five over-sized companies when at full strength. Unlike many other Space Marine Chapters, Tactical Squads are not the base from which the army is formed. The Disciples prefer close combat and for this reason the Assault Squads are the pinnacle of the Disciples army. They also have no Devastator Squads, instead they use armored vehicles to fill that role. Brothers start as Scouts, then move up either to Tactical or Assault Squads then finally to Vanguard or Sternguard Squads. Each company is set up in the manner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
De4thAnge1 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Personally, I like it. I do think you could expand on the whole "we must atone ourselves from the sins of our ancestors" thing, maybe include rituals/pre-battle chants, special prayer that the White Hands do. Having said that I like it, get ready for a lot of flaming by people more of the "no traitor geenseed" mentality. Expand on the chapter, survive the flaming and I see a good DIY chapter coming out of this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1943578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 I'm actually changing it slightly. Making it an entire rapid assault force with everyone wearing jump packs and no Terminators, support vehicles or Dreadnoughts at all. I used your advice on the pre-battle chants too ... thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1943604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Well obviously, generally, we don't do traitor geneseed chapters, but i don't mind, i do like still loyal chaos legions, all though of course realistically they would have just been killed. I'm confused though, how would they have survived untill the 21st founding to be given their own founding? it doesn't make sense. Did they continue to recruit from within the UM untill getting their own chapter? Also i think it would perhaps be better if they weren't 'part' of the ultramarines, perhaps just attached to them with their own little moon to look after, i doubt the UM would be happy having traitors among them and something this big on perhaps the most established gw chapter is unlikely to go down well among the (diy) purists, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1943650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Good questions. Only with the blessing and protection of the Ultramarine Primarch did they survive. The members of the Order of the White Hand were never Chaos Marines. They never strayed from their worship of the Emperor as a god. I guess I could explain better. When they were 'accepted into' the Ultramarines, I really mean they were accepted under the command of the Ultramarines. They were allowed to recruit and carry on, just on a limited basis. They were used in a limited fashion by their Ultramarine leaders until they were once again allowed to reform as a Chapter. Edited original post to make it more clear. I could use help on Special Character design, if anyone wants to help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1943661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus6 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Its interesting but as stated earlier, generally as a rule traitor geneseed wont ever be used. I might change it so that over the generations the geneseed was purposely forgotten as well as the Chapters Beginnings. The only individual(s) allowed to know are the Chapter Master, Chief Librarian, and the Senior Chaplian. Just a thought,... Severus6 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1943850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Good questions. Only with the blessing and protection of the Ultramarine Primarch did they survive. The members of the Order of the White Hand were never Chaos Marines. They never strayed from their worship of the Emperor as a god. The fact that they never personally strayed is not the important factor, the fact their brothers and very geneseed is traitorous would be enough for them to be declared heretics, it's like Original Sin in the bible, i'm considered a sinner because adam sinner, similarly because their Primarch turned so they are considered to have. But yeh its always fun to see these kind of chapters, however i must stress that the rules are in place for a reason, if they weren't everybody's friends and relatives would be writing DIY fluff for marines who escaped their traitorous brethren and their would have been entire legions surviving, i'd like to see a story of how exactly they didn't get insta-killed by the custodes though, as that's what i would imagine happening to even non-chaos/renegade traitor legionaires Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1943955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kil78 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Good questions. Only with the blessing and protection of the Ultramarine Primarch did they survive. The members of the Order of the White Hand were never Chaos Marines. They never strayed from their worship of the Emperor as a god. The fact that they never personally strayed is not the important factor, the fact their brothers and very geneseed is traitorous would be enough for them to be declared heretics, it's like Original Sin in the bible, i'm considered a sinner because adam sinner, similarly because their Primarch turned so they are considered to have. But yeh its always fun to see these kind of chapters, however i must stress that the rules are in place for a reason, if they weren't everybody's friends and relatives would be writing DIY fluff for marines who escaped their traitorous brethren and their would have been entire legions surviving, i'd like to see a story of how exactly they didn't get insta-killed by the custodes though, as that's what i would imagine happening to even non-chaos/renegade traitor legionaires I hate to say this, but, so what?. there are no rules. there are guide-lines, there are a few broad strokes that we agree on too allow a shared universe (the B&Cverse as it were) but there is no rule about " not useing trator gene-seed " from GW. It is all fan fic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1944548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I hate to say this, but, so what?. there are no rules. there are guide-lines, there are a few broad strokes that we agree on too allow a shared universe (the B&Cverse as it were) but there is no rule about " not useing trator gene-seed " from GW. It is all fan fic. And yet it has been pointed out time again by our fellow mods that Traitor geneseed along with SW geneseed and the 2nd Founding is outlawed. The basic outline is this: using traitor geneseed is frowned upon unless done to such a highly done method that it becomes acceptable. IN other words; if you come up with a clever and solid way to explain why then you should be alright :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1944564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kil78 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I hate to say this, but, so what?. there are no rules. there are guide-lines, there are a few broad strokes that we agree on too allow a shared universe (the B&Cverse as it were) but there is no rule about " not useing trator gene-seed " from GW. It is all fan fic. And yet it has been pointed out time again by our fellow mods that Traitor geneseed along with SW geneseed and the 2nd Founding is outlawed. The basic outline is this: using traitor geneseed is frowned upon unless done to such a highly done method that it becomes acceptable. IN other words; if you come up with a clever and solid way to explain why then you should be alright :) I agree, for the most part. Useing trator gene-seed just for the sake of it is kinda hacky. I just don't like people declaring fiats on fan-fic. but some stories require trator gene-seed to make sense. If it is well written, I say go for it. Especally as we do not yet know the fate of the loyalist from the traitor leigons. that said the word beares may be a bad choice as they went hard for chaos even before the heresy to the point that even the ones stationed with dorn were secret chaos woreshippers. another TL may make more sense. side note did you mean that wolves after the second founding are verboten, or that the second founding as a whole is out of bounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1944604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 side note did you mean that wolves after the second founding are verboten, or that the second founding as a whole is out of bounds. entire Second Founding - Out of Bounds all Wolf geneseed - Out of Bounds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1944606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 Okay two parts of the story to add to the understanding. Lorgar knew that some of his marines would not turn to the Chaos Gods. He was smart above everything else. Rather then kill these loyal marines right out like any other chapter turning to Chaos would. He stationed them all on Terra. Being this close to the throne and the Emperor gave him cover to continue his treacherous plans. Anyone questioning his loyalty would first examine the closest of his Legion and find them loyal to the Emperor to a fault. Once the Heresy began, these 97 loyal marines fought along side the Imperial Guard against the forces of Chaos including their own brethren. They were nearly wiped out to the man, only 18 survived the attack. When Horus was defeated and the forces of Chaos withdrew, the survivors surrendered to accept blame for their brothers. The Imperial Guard with whom they'd fought along side didn't know what to do with the 18. This was a subject never dreamed of before. When the Ultramarine Primarch arrived with his legion, they were turned over to him. The Imperial Guard told the story of how they'd fought and died for the Emperor and then surrendered for judgement. Primarch Roboute Guilliman knew that he should kill them by association, but he'd seen much death that day. Looking around the battle field at the carnage, and at the bodies of the loyal Word Bearers who'd given their very lives to defend the Emperor against Chaos. He'd seen enough good marines die for one day. Rather then put them to death as they believed they deserved, he decided to 'adopt' the survivors to serve under his Ultramarine command. If they were evil as was their brothers the Ultramarines would be there to put them down quickly. But, as it turned out to be true, that these marines were truly loyal and deserving of life he'd be able to judge that too. That was how the survivors came to serve under the Ultramarines for countless years, proving themselves over and over. ------------------------------- I'm not using the Word Bearers to make a super powerful chapter, on the contrary. I've given them so many limitations already. They are at best half strength of any other chapter; They use no vehicles or point defense weapons; and, They have no Terminators or Dreadnoughts. I'm not sure what anyone could have against the chapter other then "we just don't like chapters from fallen legions" If worse comes to worse, I can go with the forgotten geneseed, but its still gonna be the same chapter so I'm not sure what benefit to that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1944916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/tabun.png Grand Master Tobun, Leader of the Order of the White Hand, Commander of the White Hand Chapter Statement to Initiates Fortress Monestary Terra "You stand before me now as men. As you undergo the rites of the Order this day, you will die men. A lucky few will find favor in the eyes of the Emperor and your journey will be done. The rest he will return to me as marines. Those will spend the rest of their days fighting for the honor to return unto him. Praise be the Emperor." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1944926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 One other thought I had for this chapter as a Flaw/Advantage (up to you as to which it is) White Hand Space Marines cannot retreat or end a move further away from an enemy then when they started the move. White Hand Space Marines never Break. They will fight till the battle is done or until they are dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1944944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 You would have to ask yourself why Guilliman would even stop to ascertain the truth from the Marines, Word Bearers are second only to the Alpha Legion in secrecy and deceit, they are the true Harbingers of Heresy, so why would Guilliman who just watched the Word Bearers cause the greatest destruction to the chapter in its history, pause for even a second to say: 'hey dude, what are you doing here?'. Then let them serve, or how do they continue to get geneseed to make new marines? You right there is no right and wrong, but there is a universally accepted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1945031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 But at the time the Ultramarine Primarch didn't have that extensive knowledge, the Heresy had just happened and not every question as to who had why had been answered yet. Or am I wrong. I thought the Heresy was a quick strike to take out the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1945035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 NOOO. THe Heresy took years. Istvaan and the Siege are separated by years. Guilliman knew full well which Legions turned and their involvment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1945063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I hate to say this, but, so what?. there are no rules. there are guide-lines, there are a few broad strokes that we agree on too allow a shared universe (the B&Cverse as it were) but there is no rule about " not useing trator gene-seed " from GW. It is all fan fic. Of course in general this holds true, but by posting this on the B&C fluff forum you're asking for CC from a set of people who have been told that these are the rules of fluff, thus breaking them will have be here telling you that you shouldn't do that, there is nothing anyone can do to stop you but in B&C it will be frowned upon unless lots of good fluff backs it up. Ultimately claiming my fluff my rules is fine however you can't impose 'my rules' on to a board which already has rules it will vehemently uphold. If you want a reason for this look at the fan made chapters on the 40k wiki, some of the links to established gw fluff is shocking. I don't want to sound harsh, i just want to defend my posistion, plus really he rules we are all playing by are GW's fluff rules, B&C rules simply try to mirror GW's rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1945120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 Okay new to the timeline but just looked, Heresy was between 012-M31 and 014-M31 so 3 years. If you dont' think the Remnants of the Word Bearers work, what do you suggest? I posted here for suggestions not just 'you can't do that' stuff. A more religious off-shoot of the Ultramarines or what? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1945138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 dark angels sucessor that learn of their past secret (that half the legion rebelled) and become pious / zealous Any new chapter which, upon learning of the horrendous heresy (i mean in detail, perhaps through stumbling upon x or y) decide to dedicate themselves to a more religious then usual space marine way of life so that none may ever fall from their chapter Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1945188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 New Dark Angel successors are almost non-existent in the current timeline, they should never be an -off-shoot- of anyone. They should be founded just like everyone else, chapters dont just go around shooting off splinter factions and on the rare occasion it happens its no small deal. Your chapter could be based on one of Guilliman's traits or a relic that was left with his hand print on it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1945191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Speaking of hands, why not be a highly pious IF successor? All they ever recovered of Rogal Dorn was his skeletal hand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1945533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Okay new to the timeline but just looked, Heresy was between 012-M31 and 014-M31 so 3 years. Actually there are two timelines. One is this you have the other is an older one saying heresy took from 007.M31 to 014.M31. Cheers Hrvat Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1945543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I think a better way to handle this is to have them be part of the 21st Founding (The Cursed Founding). The AdMech experimented with all sorts of things for the founding and it is the most plausible way to have traitor geneseed. They could have been launched and not known their progenitor for millennium until they found some old AdMech records showing that they were of Lorgar's stock. That discovery turned them into pious zealots as they felt they needed to make up for what Lorgar and company did during the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1946009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lucas Raziel Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 cough cough Uruk hai cough cough. go to bjorn irongaze if you need characters made. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165158-ia-the-white-hand/#findComment-1946014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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