IA: The White Hand

[Ecritter]

Okay, version 3.0 posted making a few changes.

 

Worshipping the Emperor. The Emperor never told the Word Bearers not to worship him, he told them to get off their butts and move on with the crusade and not stop to build temples and statues in his honor ... so that stayed.

 

Battlecry. Slightly changed.

 

Presented in a Codex format

 

Temple moved to Luna. Although I still can't find anything to support your arguement, it still works on Luna so I'm not gonna push the point.

 

Added Forgotten Truth Section. All info on the surviving 18 Word Bearers was kept but moved here. It's now just like the Dark Angel Codex in this way.

 

Most everything else remains the same.

[Ecritter]

6: Not sure where that's written. So I don't see it as a rule. The Order resides on Terra, the Chapter ships only visit once every decade as I stated in the storyline.

 

That's never a good way to start things. Try thinking "what does it say I can do" instead. Otherwise, you will end up being in the group of people who field DIY super-units without opponent's consent because "it doesn't say I can't".

Put it this way - it doesn't say you can't have a secretive SM Chapter comprised entirely of Necrons, but would you accept such a Chapter? The line between reasonable and unreasonable is different for every person, it best to stick with what we do know.

 

Oh, and just a tip - the Imperial Prisons are on Luna.

 

Saying "you can't do it cause I said so" is a bad way to start too. You'll find nothing superpowered in this chapter .... never was. If I go by your reasoning I can't paint my armor blue and bone ... cause it doesn't say I can anywhere.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Saying "you can't do it cause I said so" is a bad way to start too.

 

Oh, I'm not about to tell you what you can and can't do, mostly because it is completely beyond my power to stop you. I just try to make you aware of any consequences for doing so, particularly about how other fans will/may percieve you.

 

If I go by your reasoning I can't paint my armor blue and bone ... cause it doesn't say I can anywhere.

 

True, you can't - if you play Imperial Fists. On the other hand, it does say you have license to create DIY Chapters, which by their nature have no set colour scheme.

[Ecritter]

What I'm asking is where does it say only they can have a base on Terra, cause I can't find it anywhere?

 

Anyway, I moved them to Luna so its not an issue now.

[The 13th Goat]

No offense, Ecs, but i've heard this before too. Only Imperial Fists can recruit from Terra. Maybe also the Grey Knights, but don't quote me on that.

 

Arguable, the reason behind it is space and fear. Their isn't to much space left to establish a fortress monestery, when you consider most of Terra is like Coresount (Star Wars, spelt badly). Coupled with that many would fear having a force of marines based on Terra, incase heresy rears its head. The Imperial Fists get away with it cause their fleet based, which i know the White Hands are too. But two chapters recruiting from the same world is rare, and considering Terra isn't really a dangerous world, their initiates would be upper class snobs

 

I had an idea though. You want pios, why not base them in the Ophelia sector? Its the home of the Ecclesiarchy, which arguably tie in with most of your beliefs. Just a thought.

[The 13th Goat]

Each of the five companies is led by a Master. The companies each operate from a Battle Barge and are all set up the same, each comprised of the following; a Vanguard Veteran Squad, 4 Tactical Squads, 2 Assault Squads, 2 Devastator Squads, a Scout Squad, 2 Techmarines and 6 Servitors. Each Company is also supported by 2 Land Speeders, Rhinos and Drop Pods.

 

Seems functional, but perhaps too many Tactical squads. Are they 5 man or 10 man teams? Also, if your using the Vanguard squads as a kind of support for your Captain, you might be able to make them honour Guard using Calgars rules. Might improve them. Also, i know your not too keen on heavy vehical support, but you could use a thunder Cannon to boalster your forces. 2 devestator squads and a thunder cannon would destroy. Have you also thought about Land Raider Crusader's for transport?

 

I'm assuming you've bought these already. Why not make one of your Techmarines a Master Of The Forge. 50 points more, but worth it for the beam weapon ( futher away, more powerful!)

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Ecritter Posted Today, 11:15 AM

What I'm asking is where does it say only they can have a base on Terra, cause I can't find it anywhere?

 

All remaining space has now been taken up by pilgrimage sites, assuming it wasn't in use before that. The Imperial Fists still recruit from there because their Fortress-Monastery was built on Terra before the Heresy (and hence before the shrines). Although ruined in the Siege, it still exists and is visited regularly by Imperial Fists to maintain the relics on display there. It's mentioned in the story of Captain Lysander, specifically his early life and how he was recruited.

[Ecritter]

Each of the five companies is led by a Master. The companies each operate from a Battle Barge and are all set up the same, each comprised of the following; a Vanguard Veteran Squad, 4 Tactical Squads, 2 Assault Squads, 2 Devastator Squads, a Scout Squad, 2 Techmarines and 6 Servitors. Each Company is also supported by 2 Land Speeders, Rhinos and Drop Pods.

 

Seems functional, but perhaps too many Tactical squads. Are they 5 man or 10 man teams? Also, if your using the Vanguard squads as a kind of support for your Captain, you might be able to make them honour Guard using Calgars rules. Might improve them. Also, i know your not too keen on heavy vehical support, but you could use a thunder Cannon to boalster your forces. 2 devestator squads and a thunder cannon would destroy. Have you also thought about Land Raider Crusader's for transport?

 

I'm assuming you've bought these already. Why not make one of your Techmarines a Master Of The Forge. 50 points more, but worth it for the beam weapon ( futher away, more powerful!)

 

All the squads are 10 men, 4 tac is pretty Codex standard at least from Angels of Death Codex, Ultramarines in new Codex have even more.

 

The Captain has an Honor Guard in addition not mentioned, the Vanguard is a head on heavy assault force. So that really ups the Assault Squad count to 3 per company.

 

Am I wrong, but I thought there was only one Master of the Forge in each Chapter?

 

I took the Techmarine and Servitors for the purpose of Thunder Cannons, but since its a wep and not a vehicle I didn't list it.

 

Got a question, 5th edition (new books) I don't see a requirement for Techmarines when I use vehicles, is that a change or just left out?

 

Ecritter Posted Today, 11:15 AM

What I'm asking is where does it say only they can have a base on Terra, cause I can't find it anywhere?

 

All remaining space has now been taken up by pilgrimage sites, assuming it wasn't in use before that. The Imperial Fists still recruit from there because their Fortress-Monastery was built on Terra before the Heresy (and hence before the shrines). Although ruined in the Siege, it still exists and is visited regularly by Imperial Fists to maintain the relics on display there. It's mentioned in the story of Captain Lysander, specifically his early life and how he was recruited.

 

The only info I have on Captain Lysander is new Codex (5th edition) and it doesn't have that information.

[Ecritter]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/2ndCo.png

Master Elias Strom is the senior most Battle Company Master in the Chapter. In the event of Grand Master Tobun's death, Strom has been named as his successor. Like all of the White Hand Space Marines, he prefers close combat and is often found at the forefront of the battle formation. He has gained quite a reputation of a immortal daredevil due to multiple personal combats with foes much beyond the skill of nomal men of his position.

The 2nd Company of the White Hand are on continuous patrol in the Battle Barge Palma. They have no set patrol area and can be found anywhere in the Imperium fighting any type of menace. The Company has had more luck then most of the White Hand and maintain themselves at or near full strength, another feat adding to the reputation of their Master.

2nd Company HQ

Master Elias Strom	6	5	4	4	3	5	3	10	3+
Chaplain	5	4	4	4	2	4	2	10	3+
Apothercary	4	4	4	4	1	4	2	9	3+
Veteran	4	4	4	4	1	4	2	9	3+

Master Elias Strom..........158 points

Infantry

Elias Strom

Artificer Armor Lightning Claw Storm Bolter Frag & Krak Grenades Iron Halo

And they Shall Know No Fear Indepdendent Character Continuous Advance Sturdy

Drop Pod

Company Chaplain..........125 points

Infartry

1 Chaplain

Power Armor Rosarius Crozius Arcanum Bolt Pistol Digital Weapons Frag & Krak Grenades

And they Shall Know No Fear Indepdendent Character Continuous Advance Sturdy Liturgies of Battle Honour of the Chapter

Jump Pack

Command Squad..........135 points

Infantry

4 Veterans 1 Apothecary

Power Armor Chainsword Bolt Gun or Bolt Pistol Frag & Krak Grenades Flamer Company Standard Apothecary also has a Narthecium

And they Shall Know No Fear Continuous Advance Sturdy

Drop Pod

[Octavulg]

White Hand Chapter

 

White Hands chapter would work a bit better. Fits with Iron Hands and all that kinda scheme.

 

Plus, that way an individual marine is a White Hand, instead of a marine of the White Hand Chapter.

 

The 41st Millennium is an age of war, but it is also an age of heroes. One force stands between humanity and annihilation, a warrior brotherhood by whose valour civilizations endure. They have known betrayal. They have known tragedy. They have fought the most thankless of wars against the most terrible of foes, winning impossible victories when all around them have fallen. They are Mankind's foremost defense against a dark and brooding galaxy, and the beneficent Emperor's greatest gift to his people. They are the Space Marines, the Angels of Death, and they know no fear.

 

This is usually supposed to be where you introduce your chapter. Give a (very) brief encapsulation of who they are. Think of it as your chapter's abstract. <_<

 

Frozen Monetary Fortress of the Order of the White Hand

 

Monetary, eh? While a banking chapter would be a very interesting concept, I'm not sure it's what you're after. :tu:

 

In the days of the Great Crusade and the Heresy that followed, the most hated and feared of criminals were dumped in prisons on Luna.

 

You're making it up, so stick a few qualifiers in there.

 

Luna's in the most important system in the Imperium. Why would they use it as a prison? There's far better uses for it.

 

The galaxy's full of lousy planets that aren't in the Solar system and could easily accomodate prisoners.

 

In one such prison, the Great Disciples arose. They were strong. They were fast. It is said they brought civilization back to the uncivilized. Crimes around them came to a stop, whether it was due to respect or fear is not known. These Great Disciples saw the Emperor as a god among men and as time passed they began to share their beliefs with the other inmates.

 

These are Word Bearers. The tricky bit is getting them to not share their beliefs with the other inmates. :P They'd probably start preaching as soon as they got off the shuttle.

 

Also, saying "They were strong. They were fast." lacks gravitas and understates it. Ramble on (a little) about how they were stronger than normal man and could perform feats that could astound others. You could include a fable/parable in a sidebar where a Great Disciple preaches using abilities that are clearly those of a marine. Eating stuff and gaining knowledge or spitting acid would be the obvious ones.

 

They taught them how to free their minds from a world where their bodies were forever locked away.

 

Would work better as souls, rather than minds.

 

As the years passed, the movement they'd begun became more a religion within the inmate population, They became imprisoned monks and in time most of the inmate population became followers and true believers. Forged in a long forgotten prison, the Order of the White Hand was born.

 

Forgotten? It's right next to Terra!

 

Also, you should explain the name of the Order. Why White Hand?

 

For a thousand years after the Great Disciples pasted on to their after lives, serving the Emperor's will, the Order flourished within the prison. It became a place of peace and serenity behind bars within cold stone walls. The prison was eventually closed, but the Monks of the Order chose to remain in the only place where they'd truly felt at home. It became their monestary, their refuge from a galaxy gone mad. Word of the Order spread slowly and in time pilgrims began to arrive, seeking the peace they'd heard these Monks had found. A few of these pilgrims remained within, in this way the Order survived and slowly grew.

 

Why imprison them conventionally? Far easier to just drop 'em on a marginally habitable world and leave them.

 

Or even just execute them. Imprisonment is resource-intensive in a way las-bolts to the back of the skull never will be.

 

Unless they're used as slave labor or something.

 

In time the Order came to the attention of the Adeptus Terra, and during the 13th Founding their number was added to the great history of the Space Marines of the Legiones Astartes. The Geneseed used remains a mystery, and was never questioned by the Order. All members of the White Hand Chapter are drawn from worthy initiates within the Order of the White Hand. They undergo the Rites of the Order to join the Chapter as Space Marines.

 

OK, a number of problems with this.

 

The Adeptus would have noticed them long since.

 

All records of the 13th Founding are destroyed. An IA would not mention that founding, because IAs are weird-sort-of-in-universe documents.

 

This really doesn't seem to conform to what we know of Space Marine foundings. Home worlds and other such things often seem to be up to the Space Marine chapter itself - where the initial recruits come from is a good and tricky question. Chapters certainly don't seem to be founded with specific groups in mind. There also needs to be something about the Order that makes their initiates more suited to being Space Marines.

 

One possible method - Space Marine chapter discovers Order's planet. Order, remembering tales of the Great Disciples, hail these Space Marines as the Great Disciples returned, and abase themselves before them. When they learn of the opportunity to join said Disciples, they eagerly offer their young initiates. Religious fanaticism drives them through trials that they would fail otherwise. You get your Order, you get your Space Marine chapter, and you get even more religious fanaticism.

 

Having them based on Luna adds very little and actually deprives you of the opportunity to do some interesting things. No unique home world, for example.

 

Pulsa was subsequently deemed tainted. The Omega Marines and White Hands had manage to evacuate some during the war to their ships, but the rest faced exterminatus. The War Of A Thousand Sins was brought to a bloody close.

 

It takes a long time to get here, and I'm not certain it's worth it. At the moment you lack a beliefs section and a geneseed section, and your home world section is very brief. Your time would be far better spent expanding/creating those. This'd make a good sidebar, but it takes too damn long as it is.

 

The Forgotten Truth

 

It might be better to hint at this in the Geneseed section. If you want your chapter to have Word Bearer geneseed (and it's fine by me, so long as it's 13th or 21st Founding), hinting at it in the Geneseed section is loads o' fun.

 

Hinting at stuff is often a lot more fun than actually stating it. If people don't get it (and you want them to get it), make the hints a little less subtle.

 

In an emergency, add a short story in a sidebar that actually seems to obfuscate the issue (I speak from experience). :P

 

The White Hand Chapter is a partial-codex chapter due to the fact that each company operates as a independent force. They are currently lead by the Grand Master Tobun and his staff from the order's Temple on Terra. With their high mortality rate, the Chapter only fields five Companies when at full strength.

 

Companies normally operate as virtually independent forces. Also, what you appear to be doing could be easily expressed as a normal Codex chapter. Just point out that due to the demands of their duties, the First Company is almost always serving as sergeants and as squads with other companies.

 

Their ancient prison turned temple on Luna remains the only base for the Order of the White Hand and the White Hand Chapter of Space Marines. Companies only return to the Temple on two occasions however, to gather new recruits when they are seriously below strength and once every decade all the companies return in a time called The Gathering. Odd fact, the Monastery is completely unheated and in the middle of the frozen wastes. While visitors find it a fridged place, true believers find it warm and comforting.

 

Where the hell do they get recruits from on Luna?

 

This is why you're better off using another planet - you can make up whatever you want and it doesn't matter. Making stuff up about Luna risks contradiction and fills in a semi-important part of the universe that it is not your place to fill in.

 

* * *

 

It's pretty good. However, you need more actual content on what the chapter's like. Explain their beliefs. Their geneseed. Throw in sneaky hints about their Word Bearer origins. Add some anecdotes about the Great Disciples. That sort of thing.

 

Also, I'll take this opportunity again to flat out tell you that keeping them on Luna is limiting you, as is building the chapter around them originally. Making your own home world gives you a fair bit of opportunity for detail, and having a newly founded chapter happen upon them and choose their home world lets you do a number of things (like ominously foreshadow their Word Bearer nature and imply that there was some unnatural force that drew the Order and the Chapter together, and have the Order react to the return of the Great Disciples, and explore how the Order deals with becoming Disciples, etc.). It also avoids the whole "They're sitting in the middle of the most important sector in the galaxy" thing.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

You're making it up, so stick a few qualifiers in there.

 

Luna's in the most important system in the Imperium. Why would they use it as a prison? There's far better uses for it.

 

The galaxy's full of lousy planets that aren't in the Solar system and could easily accomodate prisoners.

 

It's a reference to the facility that was used to hold Garro and the Eisenstein 70.

At least that's why I suggested it as a compromise to not being able to use Terra.

[Fausto2071]

this is really cool, you've done a great job man

[The 13th Goat]

It's a reference to the facility that was used to hold Garro and the Eisenstein 70.

At least that's why I suggested it as a compromise to not being able to use Terra.

 

Yeah, the Sisters of silence. I believe as they forshadowed the Inquisition, it would still be active as an inquisitorial base, but it was not a prison. I also think it limits you.

[Ecritter]

White Hands chapter would work a bit better. Fits with Iron Hands and all that kinda scheme.

 

Plus, that way an individual marine is a White Hand, instead of a marine of the White Hand Chapter.

 

Its the White Hand Chapter, I'll add a bit in the history to explain why.

 

This is usually supposed to be where you introduce your chapter. Give a (very) brief encapsulation of who they are. Think of it as your chapter's abstract. :P

 

They are Space Marines ... I think that's what this is pointing at. Besides I kinda wrote it more as a Codex type entry.

 

 

 

Monetary, eh? While a banking chapter would be a very interesting concept, I'm not sure it's what you're after. :)

 

Okay my spell checker made a change and I missed it .. shoot me.

 

You're making it up, so stick a few qualifiers in there.

 

Luna's in the most important system in the Imperium. Why would they use it as a prison? There's far better uses for it.

 

The galaxy's full of lousy planets that aren't in the Solar system and could easily accomodate prisoners.

 

I was told Luna was used as a prison. And I"m sure there'd have to be more then one prison complex there. As stated in the history of the Order, this specific prison was for the most hated and feared of criminals.

 

These are Word Bearers. The tricky bit is getting them to not share their beliefs with the other inmates. :P They'd probably start preaching as soon as they got off the shuttle.

 

Also, saying "They were strong. They were fast." lacks gravitas and understates it. Ramble on (a little) about how they were stronger than normal man and could perform feats that could astound others. You could include a fable/parable in a sidebar where a Great Disciple preaches using abilities that are clearly those of a marine. Eating stuff and gaining knowledge or spitting acid would be the obvious ones.

 

I was trying to keep it brief. I've seen too many comments on other IAs about rambling.

 

Would work better as souls, rather than minds.

 

Maybe so, but it changes the meaning too much. These were criminals, and the Disciples didn't really believe they could free their souls ... only the Emperor could do that.

 

Forgotten? It's right next to Terra!

 

Being a small prison in a galaxy gone mad is easily forgotten. That's why they were sent there ... to be forgotten, as the background states. As the old (older still in the 41st century) sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

Why imprison them conventionally? Far easier to just drop 'em on a marginally habitable world and leave them.

 

Or even just execute them. Imprisonment is resource-intensive in a way las-bolts to the back of the skull never will be.

 

Unless they're used as slave labor or something.

 

Have to ask GW that one. I'm told prisons are there ... I can only assume prisoners are in them.

 

OK, a number of problems with this.

 

The Adeptus would have noticed them long since.

 

All records of the 13th Founding are destroyed. An IA would not mention that founding, because IAs are weird-sort-of-in-universe documents.

 

This really doesn't seem to conform to what we know of Space Marine foundings. Home worlds and other such things often seem to be up to the Space Marine chapter itself - where the initial recruits come from is a good and tricky question. Chapters certainly don't seem to be founded with specific groups in mind. There also needs to be something about the Order that makes their initiates more suited to being Space Marines.

 

One possible method - Space Marine chapter discovers Order's planet. Order, remembering tales of the Great Disciples, hail these Space Marines as the Great Disciples returned, and abase themselves before them. When they learn of the opportunity to join said Disciples, they eagerly offer their young initiates. Religious fanaticism drives them through trials that they would fail otherwise. You get your Order, you get your Space Marine chapter, and you get even more religious fanaticism.

 

Having them based on Luna adds very little and actually deprives you of the opportunity to do some interesting things. No unique home world, for example.

 

I never said when they noticed them, just that in time they did.

 

The recruits for the Chapter come from the Order. Initiates to the Order are pilgrims .... stated in the history of the Order.

 

This also explains why they are such a small Chapter ... makes sense to me.

 

It takes a long time to get here, and I'm not certain it's worth it. At the moment you lack a beliefs section and a geneseed section, and your home world section is very brief. Your time would be far better spent expanding/creating those. This'd make a good sidebar, but it takes too damn long as it is.

 

Beliefs and geneseed are covered in the history of the Order and Chapter respectively. Agreed its too long for a sidebar, I kept it as a view into the lives of the Chapter.

 

It might be better to hint at this in the Geneseed section. If you want your chapter to have Word Bearer geneseed (and it's fine by me, so long as it's 13th or 21st Founding), hinting at it in the Geneseed section is loads o' fun.

 

Hinting at stuff is often a lot more fun than actually stating it. If people don't get it (and you want them to get it), make the hints a little less subtle.

 

In an emergency, add a short story in a sidebar that actually seems to obfuscate the issue (I speak from experience). :P

 

Geneseed is unknown, as stated in the Chapter history.

 

Companies normally operate as virtually independent forces. Also, what you appear to be doing could be easily expressed as a normal Codex chapter. Just point out that due to the demands of their duties, the First Company is almost always serving as sergeants and as squads with other companies.

 

But Codex Chapters have a dedicated 1st Company of Veterans, the White Hand does not. Each Company is set up the same ... thus making it Partial-Codex.

 

Where the hell do they get recruits from on Luna?

 

This is why you're better off using another planet - you can make up whatever you want and it doesn't matter. Making stuff up about Luna risks contradiction and fills in a semi-important part of the universe that it is not your place to fill in.

 

As stated before. Recruits come from the Order. Initiates come to the Order as pilgrims. This is one big explanation of the small size of the Chapter.

 

It's pretty good. However, you need more actual content on what the chapter's like. Explain their beliefs. Their geneseed. Throw in sneaky hints about their Word Bearer origins. Add some anecdotes about the Great Disciples. That sort of thing.

 

Can't talk about the geneseed ... its unknown.

 

I thought I had their beliefs in there. Life is a punishment, only in death can they find peace. Pretty simple.

 

Also, I'll take this opportunity again to flat out tell you that keeping them on Luna is limiting you, as is building the chapter around them originally. Making your own home world gives you a fair bit of opportunity for detail, and having a newly founded chapter happen upon them and choose their home world lets you do a number of things (like ominously foreshadow their Word Bearer nature and imply that there was some unnatural force that drew the Order and the Chapter together, and have the Order react to the return of the Great Disciples, and explore how the Order deals with becoming Disciples, etc.). It also avoids the whole "They're sitting in the middle of the most important sector in the galaxy" thing.

 

The limit is there for a purpose ... to keep the Chapter small.

[Ecritter]

Version 3.1 posted fixing some issues brought up by others.

[The 13th Goat]

But would the Imperium forget a prison that i your words was the worst in the galaxy? I would imagin that would be on Titan, for heratics, and i doubt situations would warrent its closure.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

The 13th Goat Posted Today, 11:12 AM

But would the Imperium forget a prison that i your words was the worst in the galaxy? I would imagin that would be on Titan, for heratics, and i doubt situations would warrent its closure.

 

Top tip for potential Imperialus Architects - don't site your maximum-security prison for all sorts of renegades, chaos worshippers, heretics and general scum on the same planet as the biggest repository of Daemonic/Chaotic knowledge in the Imperium. :huh:

[Octavulg]

Its the White Hand Chapter, I'll add a bit in the history to explain why.

 

I know that it is the White Hand Chapter. I was pointing out that the White Hands would be almost the same thing and a lot easier to talk about.

 

The White Hands.

 

The White Hand chapter.

 

A White Hand.

 

A White Hand chapter marine.

 

They are Space Marines ... I think that's what this is pointing at. Besides I kinda wrote it more as a Codex type entry.

 

We know they're Space Marines. It's a big ol' Index Astartes article. The second word tells us that. :P

 

I was told Luna was used as a prison. And I"m sure there'd have to be more then one prison complex there. As stated in the history of the Order, this specific prison was for the most hated and feared of criminals.

 

Luna was where they held Garro and his Death Guard (apparently). You'd have to ask Tyrak for more details, but they weren't necessarily held in a formal prison.

 

Plus, they kinda had to keep those guys at Terra so they could interrogate them. There's little need to get keep loyalist Word Bearers around. If they've been pseudo-forgiven, put 'em on some planet somewhere and leave them alone. If they haven't been, execute them.

 

Keeping them on Luna's just weird.

 

Plus, while that may be what Luna was used for back in the Heresy, making up stuff about what it's like now is a bad idea. Same as making up stuff about what the Imperium's doing on Venus - it inserts your chapter directly into the middle of the world, when you should be trying to fit them into a relatively unobtrusive empty space on the corner.

 

I was trying to keep it brief. I've seen too many comments on other IAs about rambling.

 

In that case, you should have said "They were strong and fast" which saves you a word, a period and a space.

 

Balance brevity and sounding nice. The people I tell that they need to be brief are the ones who have spent thousands of words on concepts that could be expressed in about half as many. You're not there yet.

 

Maybe so, but it changes the meaning too much. These were criminals, and the Disciples didn't really believe they could free their souls ... only the Emperor could do that.

 

Yeah, but saying minds in this case makes it sound like they're wandering around telepathically, which is emphatically not what they're doing.

 

And they could free their souls from the torment of the planet, though not from the torment of reality, by having faith in the Emperor.

 

Seriously - they're not concerned with saving the prisoners' minds.

 

Being a small prison in a galaxy gone mad is easily forgotten. That's why they were sent there ... to be forgotten, as the background states. As the old (older still in the 41st century) sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

Except the Adeptus loses track of things that are far away (generally). The prison would be, quite literally, right next door.

 

I suspect the Imperium has a pretty good handle on what's happening in their very solar system.

 

The recruits for the Chapter come from the Order. Initiates to the Order are pilgrims .... stated in the history of the Order.

 

So there are sufficient ten to fourteen year old pilgrims in the peak of physical condition who are allowed into the Solar System to supply the Order with recruits? And they all agree to be tested? Chapters have a pretty high washout rate from among people of unusual genetic purity who have killed bears with stone knives. Pilgrims to Terra would not be the cream of the population by a long stretch.

 

This also explains why they are such a small Chapter ... makes sense to me.

 

Coming up with reasons for them to be a small Chapter is not that hard. Frankly, I don't see why you're so obsessed with it in any case.

 

Beliefs and geneseed are covered in the history of the Order and Chapter respectively. Agreed its too long for a sidebar, I kept it as a view into the lives of the Chapter.

 

IAs have a Beliefs section and a Geneseed section. Otherwise you're not really writing an IA any more.

 

Furthermore, I did not say that the story was too long for a sidebar (though it is). I said it was too long. And it is.

 

Geneseed is unknown, as stated in the Chapter history.

 

So indulge in mass speculation about what their geneseed is and things like that. The GW articles on chapters with unknown geneseed spend a little while on the various theories as to their origins.

 

But Codex Chapters have a dedicated 1st Company of Veterans, the White Hand does not. Each Company is set up the same ... thus making it Partial-Codex.

 

And I am pointing out that the differences in your structure are so minute you could explain it in less time than you currently take and in a more reasonable fashion with the above.

 

As stated before. Recruits come from the Order. Initiates come to the Order as pilgrims. This is one big explanation of the small size of the Chapter.

 

So this small order which had originally escaped the notice of the Administratum, despite being literally orbiting them, is famous enough to draw pilgrims from across the galaxy? Even though, considering how Warp travel works, they'd be too old by the time they got there (assuming they set out with the ideal "I'm gonna join the White Hand Chapter (and notice how much more awkward that is than White Hands))?

 

Alternately, if they get them from the regular pilgrims to Terra...well, I've already pointed out the problems with that. However, it also raises the question of when and how the Marines would approach potential initiates, how they persuade these people to join them, and as mentioned, how anyone's ever heard of them and thus is willing to join.

 

I thought I had their beliefs in there. Life is a punishment, only in death can they find peace. Pretty simple.

 

Expand on it more. Why are those who live being punished? Is everyone? Is death just release, or do you become one with the Emperor, or go to some magical paradise, or what?

 

The limit is there for a purpose ... to keep the Chapter small.

 

It is not limiting the chapter. It is limiting you. If I had meant that it was limiting the chapter, I would have said that. It is depriving you of the opportunity to write about cool stuff in cool ways.

 

I have pointed out a remarkable number of things you could explore, add or elaborate on. If you don't want to do those, fine. If you don't want to listen to any of my advice, fine. If you want to continually respond to "what if it said this?" with "it doesn't say that", that's fine too. Do it long enough, however, and I won't bother.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Luna was where they held Garro and his Death Guard (apparently). You'd have to ask Tyrak for more details, but they weren't necessarily held in a formal prison.

 

The Luna facility is Heresy era. (Flight of the Eisenstein, James Swallow) As the great space defence orbiting Terra, I would have expected it to have taken heavy damage during the preliminaries to the Siege of Terra.

 

Alternately, there is an Inquisitorial facility on Mimas. (Grey Knights, Ben Counter) Construction dates unknown, but since the Inquisition wasn't founded until after the Siege of Terra, I'd say it wasn't around in the era you're thinking of. You may think differently.

 

Both examples are BL and not endorsed by the Studio, so their canonicity is disputed, particularly in light of certain authors' records on adhering to Studio fluff.

 

What is certain is that both Luna and the moons of Saturn are strictly off-limits to civilians. Basing your Chapter there means you can't get out undetected, and your recruits can't get in undetected, if at all.

[Ecritter]

Version 4.0 posted (hopefully the final version).

 

Moved Chapter to Zel Primus.

 

Reorganized to include Geneseed and Beliefs sections.

 

Removed overly long story. No offense Octavulg. I'm not unreasonable, but some things aren't going to change ... like White Hand. I do listen and make changes, but I will not subvert my Chapter.

[Lord Insanity]

This sounds really good.

[Ecritter]

Okay, unless someone has criticism on grammar, game mechanics, copyright or decency issues ... the White Hand is done.

[Ecritter]

This sounds really good.

 

Thanks, it took a while to work the bugs out .... but I'm glad someone likes it other then me.

 

I have my first mini almost done, just got to put the hand on it ... I'll try to get a pic up sometime. Not as professional looking as most on here, but I like it.

[Ecritter]

Made a few small changes, this should be the final version.

[Octavulg]

The Monks of the Order of the White Hand, pious worshipers of the Emperor-god were granted the privilege of serving as Warriors of the Imperium. The Disciples of the White Hand Chapter was born, and fights enemies of their Emperor-god no matter their guise without question.

 

Aboard their Strike Cruisers, the companies of the Disciples are ever vigilant. They patrol all of the Imperium taking on all foes, and spreading the word. They are Space Marines, and they know no fear.

 

Pronoun use is a little weak, and you say Emperor-god quite a bit.

 

Maybe:

 

The monks of the Order of the White Hand were pious worshippers of the Emperor, granted the privilege of serving as warriors of the Imperium. The Disciples of the White Hand were born, and now fight the Emperor's enemies without question. Aboard their Strike Cruisers, they are ever vigilant, patrolling the Imperium, confronting all foes of Man, spreading the word of the God-Emperor. They are Space Marines, and they know no fear.

 

At minimum, you need to get rid of the more gratuitous capitals. They make it read like a Stan Lee superhero introduction.

 

In the days of the Great Crusade and the Heresy that followed, the most hated and feared of criminals were dumped on penal worlds throughout the galaxy. Separated from humanity, without even the contact of their wardens. It was their punishment to be locked away until such a time when death took them. They were the forgotten, bereft of even the most basic of human rights. Crimes within the penal worlds flourished and for the most part went unpunished. Inmates would kill for food, clothes or just for fun. Life, if it could be called that, was harsh and for most very short.

 

Mentioning human rights feels weird. People have rights at all in the Imperium?

 

Also, "within the penal worlds" makes it sound like they're all underground. Now, while I liked the Chronicles of Riddick, I am possibly the only person in North America who did. Say "on". Also, never having them be punished would seem even better - no law. No mercy. All that stuff.

 

The White Hand

The early days of the Great Teachers saw many wonders and miracles.

 

A fire in one of the older wards had hundreds of inmates trapped. The Great Teachers rushed to their aid, but the ward was sealed by a great iron gate. The inmates would soon perish, for the gate was sealed and there was no way to open it.

 

But the Leader of the Great Teachers beached forth holy fire and melted the seal away, and they entered the ward and began to pull the inmates out. The fire raged around them and choking smoke filled the ward. Without a care for their own safety, they threw themselves forward to save those that could no longer make it out unaided.

 

The rags worn by the Great Teachers were scorched and burned by the time they'd pulled the last inmate out. In the inferno, the the Great Teachers had all been burned badly to save the others. But when their followers rushed to bandage their wounds, The Leader raised his right hand. It had been burned in the fires, but did not blister or bleed. It was white, the healing had already began.

 

“Behold the blessing of the Emperor.” He proclaimed, and their followers fell down and wept before them.

 

The Parable of the White Hand. Or something. You need to set the whole "religious fable/tale/teaching" tone at the start, and titling it such would seem the easiest way to do that.

 

Might work a little better like:

 

"On the thirtieth night after the Great Teachers began to preach, a fire trapped hundreds of inmates in one of the prison wards. The Great Teachers rushed to their aid, but the ward was sealed by a great iron gate. Inmates both inside and out of the ward began to cry out in fear and terror, for they saw no way for them to be saved.

 

But the leader of the Great Teachers brought [a note. NEVER belch forth ANYTHING in a parable. Kills the tone] forth holy fire and melted the seal away, and he and his Teachers did enter the ward to save those who could not reach the gate on their own, and their rags were burnt and scorched by the time they carried the last inmate from the ward. In the inferno, the Great Teachers had all been badly burned, but when their followers rushed to bandage their wounds, the leader of the Teachers raised his right hand. Though it had been burnt in the fires, it did not blister or bleed. It was pallid and white, but healing before their very eyes.

 

"Behold the blessing of the Emperor," he proclaimed, and the prisoners fell down and wept at the power of the Lord of Mankind."

 

More formality and such is necessary, IMO, to get the tone I would expect you to be after with that sort of thing.

 

On one such penal world, the Great Teachers arose. They were huge, towering, brutes of immense strength and speed, but they were not evil men.

 

I'd use a term other than brutes. Colossi? Men, even (though if you use men, take out the second use of it in the sentence).

 

In time the Order of the White Hand came to the attention of the Adeptus Terra, and early in the thirty-sixth millennium of man their number was added to the great history of the Space Marines of the Legiones Astartes. All members of the Disciples are drawn from worthy initiates within the Order. They undergo the Rites of the Order to join the Chapter as Space Marines.

 

That's...not how chapter selection works. They don't just grab a group and say "here, be a Space Marine chapter". Honest.

 

The Forgotten Truth

 

Again, I think the effect of this would be greatly improved by hinting at it in a few spots in the background and letting people work it out themselves. It's already pretty clear the teachers are Space Marines. Throw in a few Word-Bearer-esque references in places, maybe a few concerns about their religious fanatacism...even the way they sometimes are slow to redeploy due to converting the populace... People'll guess on their own, which is more fun for them, and you get to be a little sneaky, which can be a lot more fun.

 

At minimum, take it out of the middle of the IA and put it at the end.

 

What you could do, if the idea strikes your fancy, is have the geneseed of the Disciples somehow drawn from the bodies of the original Great Teachers by the Mechanicus genetors responsible for the Cursed Founding. Their bodies are likely preserved somewhere, and it is apparently quite cold...

 

After all, Marines who could have an effect over such centuries and be so loyal could be no traitors...

 

For some secret reason, not even known by them, there were not put to death but locked away in a frozen prison, forbidden from ever being released and being Space Marines again.

 

What is this secret reason?

 

You don't have to tell us, but you should have one. Relying on deus ex machinas is a very bad habit to get into.

 

The source of the geneseed used to create the Space Marines of the Disciples of the White Hand Chapter is unknown. To the Order and the Disciples, the source is the geneseed is unimportant, only the teachings of the Great Teachers is their guiding light. Anyone questioning the source find only that the gifts of the Emperor-god are not to be questioned.

 

You could add assorted Imperial organizations wild speculations on their geneseed. Throw in a few red herrings, plus the truth.

 

Sturdy: Disciple units roll 3D6 for Leadership Tests, only the lower 2 die are used. Disciple marines are a uncompromising lot and its near impossible to break their spirits.

 

For the life of me, I do not see why Stubborn does not work for this. If anything, it might be more effective, and it's actually got existing rules.

 

* * *

 

You're a little too informal/colloquial. Don't "pull people from the flames", draw them from the flames. Don't have things "come to a stop", have things cease or dwindle away. Don't say "Odd fact, but the monastery's unheated". Say "Unusually, the monastery has no obvious source of heat or energy". Pretend it's a formal essay. Alternately, pretend to be a slightly pedantic and overly formal but still competent Administratum scribe.