The Crimson Cartel Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Ok Boys, here goes... With the "counts as" rules from C:SM allowing you to throw different special characters from other armies ( for example fielding Tiggy in with some Imperial fists) can you do the same with characters from other codices? I.E. a Dante, or Azrael for example with a vanilla marine force? or vice versa, a character from the vanilla codex in with a DA, BA, or SW force? Thoughts? -CC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 That would be a "No". Codex specific characters can only be used in their respective codexes. I.e., Blood Angle characters can only be used in Blood Angel based armies. However, you could easily stat out a mini-dex marine army as a current edition codex army, you just lose all of the special abilities and units from your specific dex. Example: I want to use Hes'tan in my Black Templar army. I build the strike force ussing C:SM, keep the BT paint job, and just say it's a "BT" force with special weapons. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1943445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Here's GW's stance on 'Counts as' from an official rules pack I received for an upcoming tournament THE 'COUNTS AS' RULEAn important principle in the Conflict Tournament rules is "what you see is what you get" or WYSIWYG for short. All this means is that unless you are using the 'counts as' rule (see below) then the miniatures used are assumed to have the weapons and equipment actually shown on the model. Most of the the time you should use the WYSIWYG rule above during your games. However you may if you wish decide that certain models in your force 'count as' something else from the army lists of roughly the same size and function. This is especially useful if you are using old models that are no longer in the range and therefore not covered in the army lists, but it can also be used so that converted models may be included in your force. For example, you may have managed to lay your hands on an old Citadel miniature that we made many years ago but are now no longer in the range. Rather than leave these models languishing on the shelf you could simply decide that they 'count as' something else from the army list, which is roughly the same size as the old model and has a similar function. If you decide to use the 'counts as' rule then there are three very important things to keep in mind; - Before the tournament begins you must approach a Referee and notify them of you decision to use the 'counts as' rule, and you must let them know what counts as what. The Referee may, at their discretion, disallow any 'counts as' choice if they feel it is inappropriate or confusing. - Before each game starts you must tell your opponent that you have decided to use the 'counts as' rule and you must let him know what counts as what - If a model in your force counts as something else, then all of that type of model in your army must count as being the same thing. You may not say this model counts as troop type A while the exact same model counts as troop type B for example. The 'counts as' rule is included to allow you to use all the models in your collection, not as a method of fine-tuning your army for every game you play. Therefore you may not use the 'counts as' rule for models that are included in the army list you are using. If the model is included in the army lists, the the WYSIWYG rule take precedence Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1947132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 uhmmm... I can not find something like that you can't use codex characters in non codex armies or vice versa in that document. But from what I know, you can't use characters in that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1948531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 uhmmm... I can not find something like that you can't use codex characters in non codex armies or vice versa in that document. There's nothing in there, as the OP is mistaken on their teminology. Using other characters from a different codex is not 'counts as'. That's using other characters from a differnt codex. OP: 'Counts as' is for things that do no look exactly like they should, rule/stat wise, but follow a given set of rules already available. You're certainly fine and free to use their figures to represent some other character in a different codex, if you like theirs more than what is available (this would be 'counts as). But you do not get to mix and match their rules (this is not). But from what I know, you can't use characters in that way. Correct. There are no rules for it. Meaning, simply, you cannot do it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1948627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 If you want to use the Dante figure in a vanilla list, sure. The Dante rules, no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1948662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 if it were possible, you could also use a C'tan as an HQ, since it is also from another codex :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1949107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serif Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 this has become a big bone of contention for DA and BA players, Space Wolves still get the best of both worlds and I am unfamiliar with the Black Templars. I understand the frustrations of the Angel players; BA Mephiston is supposed to be an amazingly powerful psycher, yet only has access to 3 powers, one of which is next to useless, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1949473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Farney Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 " pulling Kharne the Betrayer into my Crimson Fist army sure has helped out my assaulting units ... I use him with my Carnifex screamer killer and together ( with a squad of seripham ) they really support my Lootas and my Leman Russ!!!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1952115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 " pulling Kharne the Betrayer into my Crimson Fist army sure has helped out my assaulting units ... I use him with my Carnifex screamer killer and together ( with a squad of seripham ) they really support my Lootas and my Leman Russ!!!" Yehes :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1954118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergerjo Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Its more a matter of using 1 codex for your list than a counts as issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165161-counts-as-models/#findComment-1954148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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