Orks seem pretty unbeatable...

[Wena]

Ok Brothers of the Fang…

 

So after dominating most armies I've played against I have finally found a good Ork player and I find that the Ork rules make it almost impossible to beat them...

 

In a league this is his army list:

HQ:

1) Ghazghkull Thraka

 

1) Warboss - Power Klaw; Shoota;'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Cybork Body

 

Troops:

9 Nobz

Choppa (x5); Power Klaw (x4); Slugga (x7); Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-weapon (x1); Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon (x1); Feel No Pain;'Eavy Armour (x1); Cybork Body; Waaagh! Banner (x1)

Painboy -'Urty Syringe; Cybork Body; Dok's Tools

Trukk - Big Shoota; Armour Plates; Grot Rigger

 

29 Boyz - Choppa & Slugga; Rokkit Launcha (x3)

Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

 

29 Boyz - Choppa & Slugga; Big Shoota (x3)

Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

 

14 Boyz - Choppa & Slugga

Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga

 

Fast Attack:

19 Stormboyz

1 Stormboyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga

 

Elite:

10 Lootas

 

Total Roster Cost: 1825

 

I play with 1750 pts. but have some special abilities from my previous wins. (That's how he gets 75 extra pts.)

 

I know people say templates, but with his special Waaagh and shear numbers it's nearly impossible to kill enough to stop anything - especially with Mob Rules...

 

I'm ready for ideas, but after two games I'm skeptical that regular wolves can beat them. Please convince me otherwise...

 

Wena

[Spacefrisian]

The pie plate and sheer bolter fire is the best way. Als try the Landspeeder with heavybolter/ Heavyflamer setup. Just go with the idea any ork down means youre changes in cc grow.

 

Also if you are able to charge an ork unit which has lost a considerable amount of bodies you should charge them. His S3 will need some good rolling to get through and less attacks on youre models.

[Grey Mage]

I find Grey Hunters are the key to beating orks. Hes entirely footslogging, with one unit of jump infantry, this really shouldnt be all that hard.

 

At 1750 drop in three squads of bolter armed hunters as your start. A vendread with an assault cannon gives you your 250 HQ. A Squad of Bloodclaws, fifteen strong with a basic wolf priest for your first HQ, a WGBL with TDA and an assault cannon for your second. That gives you about 450pts for tanks all told. Take your pick really... though I reccommend a whirlwind, a predator, and if you have the points left over a landraider. If not then consider a razorback or two for some fire support. TLAC is probly the best against works, but Las+TLPG is good against everyone.

 

And then just sit back, in cover whenever possible and wait. With only 10 Lootas for his heavy support hes going to have to come to you. With only a handful of rocket launchaz hes going to have a hell of a time scratching a landraider... his only hope is in CC really, and against this kind of line with an LRC hell never get there.

 

Use the bloodclaws to hold a flank and move them to intercept the nearest ork unit when hes about 18-20" away. Just keep shooting with everything else until hes within charge range. If your lucky hell waste his waagh! trying to get first hit on your BC, otherwise well hell get the charge 9/10. Thats not so bad though, as the boyz are still I3, and youll go first. His nobz would go simultaneously but he gave them powerclaws....

 

So if the mob numbers less than 15 by the time it hits you, wich it darn well should with all that firepower, you can kill enough of the suckers before you get hit that he wont be able to take out more than one or two wolves. You win combat, and if hes down below seven, wich is likely at this point, hes also rather likely to run.... and get caugh via our higher iniative. Dead orks for everyone.

 

Sure, that nobz unit is tough... but if you kill everything else he shouldnt be able to hold enough objectives or get enough kill points to make the game a win for himself. Push comes to shove sacrifice a unit to hold them up while you take out the rest of the horde, and then just rapid fire the everliving crap out of him.

 

BTW: this isnt theory hammer. I play orks rather regularly... the last three weekends, and about ever other weekend for the last five months.

[stinkenheim]

i've only had a few games in 5th against the new ork codex using my wolves, but i'd agree with grey mage... weight of fire will do alot to help you win combat... don't focus on wiping out a unit, just dent it enough to make sure it won't do too much damage when it gets to combat... i would highly reccomend whirlwind for fighting orks, i know you say you don't want everyone to go on about pie plates but for 85pts it a highly effective way of controlling their numbers... also if ou take fangs i'd give them missile launchers... you've got the antitank ability of krak and the anti infantry of frag... over 2 turns these two units should easil reduce atleast a unti of boys to about a third of its starting strength... as for ghazgkull... try and stay away from him would be my best advice... unless you can get the chare in before he can call a waagh with a unit like termies with storm shields he's gonna be extremely hard to stop...

 

on a side note... can you even take 2 warbosses, you never used to be able to

[Hfran Morkai]

Try a plasma cannon on the dread. Fun. Is feel no pain only applicable to failed saves? Can't remember but if so definately a plasma cannon ven dread to kill the nobs and other large groups of orks. I only just bough a whirlwind and not used it yet but strength 5 BS 4 large blas sound pretty good against hordes.

[stinkenheim]

they changed feel no pain this time round.. its now not applicable if the wound causes instant death (missile launchers anyone...) was caused by a power weapon or (and heres the fun bit) if the weapon has an AP of either 1 or 2 so plasma, melta, hell even rending shots now ignore feel no pain... so load up on assalt cannons now more than ever guys

[Yeti]

I've faced off against orks regularly and I don't find them all that hard. I play a fairly shooty mech list though, but with very strong assault elements.

 

Priority #1 is to blow the trukk out from under the nobs. Without that, they'll be much slower getting to combat.

 

After that, let him come to you. It gives you extra time to shoot him up and lets you position yourself to accept the charge. If you can whittle his squads down to around 10 boys, you'll eat them alive in CC.

 

That being said, don't be affraid to assault either. I did a double charge with Blood Claws (w/ Wolf priest) and Grey Hunters (w/ Wolf Lord) against a mob of 30 orks and came close to killing every ork in there ... despite very mediocre performances from my HQs.

 

Missile launchers and vindicators are your friend. :P The missiles make mince meat out of his truks and then insta-kill his nobs (No armor, no FNP). Vindi can instakill his warboss and with a little luck ... most of a squad of nobs.

 

I know it sounds like lot's of "easy solutions", but they've worked very well for me and in the 6 or 7 games I've played recently against orks (including a green tide very similar to yours) I've yet to loose a match.

[Ullr Direfang]

I find Grey Hunters are the key to beating orks. Hes entirely footslogging, with one unit of jump infantry, this really shouldnt be all that hard.

 

At 1750 drop in three squads of bolter armed hunters as your start. A vendread with an assault cannon gives you your 250 HQ. A Squad of Bloodclaws, fifteen strong with a basic wolf priest for your first HQ, a WGBL with TDA and an assault cannon for your second. That gives you about 450pts for tanks all told. Take your pick really... though I reccommend a whirlwind, a predator, and if you have the points left over a landraider. If not then consider a razorback or two for some fire support. TLAC is probly the best against works, but Las+TLPG is good against everyone.

 

And then just sit back, in cover whenever possible and wait. With only 10 Lootas for his heavy support hes going to have to come to you. With only a handful of rocket launchaz hes going to have a hell of a time scratching a landraider... his only hope is in CC really, and against this kind of line with an LRC hell never get there.

 

Use the bloodclaws to hold a flank and move them to intercept the nearest ork unit when hes about 18-20" away. Just keep shooting with everything else until hes within charge range. If your lucky hell waste his waagh! trying to get first hit on your BC, otherwise well hell get the charge 9/10. Thats not so bad though, as the boyz are still I3, and youll go first. His nobz would go simultaneously but he gave them powerclaws....

 

So if the mob numbers less than 15 by the time it hits you, wich it darn well should with all that firepower, you can kill enough of the suckers before you get hit that he wont be able to take out more than one or two wolves. You win combat, and if hes down below seven, wich is likely at this point, hes also rather likely to run.... and get caugh via our higher iniative. Dead orks for everyone.

 

Sure, that nobz unit is tough... but if you kill everything else he shouldnt be able to hold enough objectives or get enough kill points to make the game a win for himself. Push comes to shove sacrifice a unit to hold them up while you take out the rest of the horde, and then just rapid fire the everliving crap out of him.

 

BTW: this isnt theory hammer. I play orks rather regularly... the last three weekends, and about ever other weekend for the last five months.

 

 

:P

 

this is how i would do it!

 

one thing i would potential consider doing is putting the ven dred in a pod w/ the missile launcher and landing it near the lootas. dropping a few pie plates and if necessary the ven dred can mop them up.

[Demogerg]

I play against a Lot of ork players, and ive found the best way to keep them under wraps is use land raiders (i prefer crusaders) and wait for them to approach. just sit back with blood claws inside your raider with a WGBL or WL armed with a frost blade, blast them with all your tanks' firepower, once they get close enough for an assult, (18") drive the tank forward and smash into him, do not let him get the charge. Use your IC to hack at his warboss while your BCs shred the orks- the return attacks from orks who survived (even from a large mob of boys, or a strong mob of nobs) is usually not enough to take out your BCs, you win by combat resolution and scuttle back into your land raider. rinse and repeat. If he gets the charge on you he will tear open the land raider, then you just charge into him the next turn.

 

because your opponent runs such a tough Nobz mob there are only really 2 ways to deal with it, ignore it and smack around his boys, or focus all your firepower on it to neutralize it. a drop podding dreadnaught with a multimelta and heavy flamer might be a good choice, drop it behind the trukk, nuke it, flame the boys inside, then charge. you will lose the dread, but for 160 points you can make his big scarey unit all of a sudden a lot more vulnerable.

 

footslogging orks are IMO easy to deal with because they are so clumsy to move- so many options (if you are mechanized) depending on the battlefield, outflanking to charge his weaker units, kite him around objectives, tank shock through his center- setting your tanks in a line then charging to one side.

[Mal]

One stragety which I have played with for beating orks is to take an allied =][= (elite option, not HQ) and throw in a vindi assassain, he can choose his target, so kill the nobs in the boyz mobs with the power klaws... those pk nobs account for about 50% of a decent sized boyz units cc kill potential, kill them off and your chances go up drastically. Granted its an expensive way to kill them off, the only cheaper way to do it is with telion, but your running SW so no joy there.

[greatcrusade08]

One stragety which I have played with for beating orks is to take an allied =][= (elite option, not HQ) and throw in a vindi assassain, he can choose his target, so kill the nobs in the boyz mobs with the power klaws... those pk nobs account for about 50% of a decent sized boyz units cc kill potential, kill them off and your chances go up drastically. Granted its an expensive way to kill them off, the only cheaper way to do it is with telion, but your running SW so no joy there.

 

This is cool, combine this with a couple of dreads and you can hold up his boys all day (once the vindi has killed the Nobs)...its the Telion/dread combo that codex guys use...

 

GC08

[Vxx]

I just played against an ork opponent last night with 1000pts.

 

He had about 86 models which included two 30 man boyz units, 10 nobs and

another 15 man boyz squad with a Warboss thrown in one of those 30 man

squads. He is arrogant and is pretty egotistical so I was really wanting to

pull off this impossible win to knock him down a peg. I had a 13 man blood

claw squad (three power weapons and a Guard with two powerfists) an 11 man Grey

hunters squad (two power weapons and a Guard with two powerfists), An attack bike

with multi-melta, a vindicator and Predator with Autocannon and Heavy

bolters. Both of my troop squads had a WGBL with Frost blade and Storm Shield in it so that brings the total to

29 models. It was table quarters and capture objectives. We ended up tying and it was a hell of a game because I wiped out everything minus his 15 man squad which was being used to hold an objective. I lost 11 marines and my predator.

 

The things I learned was that you cant let him get the charge. I was able to take on his 30 boys squad including the warboss with my 13 man blood claws and come out victorious because I negated his attacks and furious assault by charging him. The Vindicator helped quite a bit because it took out a few of his nobs and also kept him spread out in fear of that pie plate. That meant his forces were unable to get as many attacks in CC as he should of. Grey hunters with bolters are good for general shooting and flamers worked well for me.

 

My general strategy was to split his army into a couple of smaller chunks and deal with them separately. The vehicles provided some good shooting support and the marines were able to hold their own in combat with what was left. His nobz hit hard but they had a 5+ invuln save and dropped quicker than I realized thanks to power weapons and shooting with plasma pistols and the vindicator. Negating that feel no pain is a huge bonus.

[SJumppanen]

One stragety which I have played with for beating orks is to take an allied =][= (elite option, not HQ) and throw in a vindi assassain, he can choose his target, so kill the nobs in the boyz mobs with the power klaws... those pk nobs account for about 50% of a decent sized boyz units cc kill potential, kill them off and your chances go up drastically. Granted its an expensive way to kill them off, the only cheaper way to do it is with telion, but your running SW so no joy there.

 

You can only take ONE elite ally. So if you want to have Vindi then you need to take =][=-Lord. And AFAIK that isn't possible in SW list.

[Mal]

Ahh yes I forgot about the elite option restriction, however you should be able to take the =][= lord in a SW army since its C:DH that allows you to, not C:SW. Even with the odd rules for SW HQ choices.

[Jonny Wolf]

Land raider

11 Blood Claws - 3x PF

Wolf Guard w/ Thunder Hammer or Fist and Storm Shield

 

Wolf Guard Battle Leader or Lord TH/SS, Runic Charm, WTN, WP, Termie

Wolf Guard TH/SS, Runic, WTN, WP, Termie

Wolf Guard PF or CF or TH/SS, Runic Charm, WTN, WP, Termie

Wolf Guard LC/SS, WTN, WP, Runic Charm, Termie

Wolf Guard LC/SS, WTN, WP, Runic Charm, Termie

 

Shoot the hell out of them with everything you have...and hope you can assault them before they assault you so they don't get Furious Charge.

 

Good luck.

[Grey Mage]

on a side note... can you even take 2 warbosses, you never used to be able to

 

Yes you can, and each one lets you take a unit of nobz or meganobz as troops choices.

[JEFF4i]

Assault Cannons are the anti-nobz, in my experience. Orkz always seem to be tough, especially Nob heavy ones, but pack up 15 Blood Claws and a Lord or Priest in a Land Raider Crusader...should be able to get through, though it'll cost you.

[Krave]

I think that a LRC and a vindicator would be good to run in tandem, as their high armour will be hard for the Orks to scratch, ie, he won't be able to take either one out quickly. And whichever one is not being shot at can continue to blow holy hell out of the Orks. Alternatively, Orks are one of the few opponents where a Leman Russ Exterminator might be of value once you trick it out with heavy bolters.

[Ryzouken]

if you really want to make him cry, field nothing but Land Raider mounted units. There's precious little he can do to you, especially if you move 12 inches each turn. Just roll up on objectives in Turn 5 or so and win.

 

horde Orks is cute. I'd be more worried about Biker Nob lists as being able to shrug off upward of 10 wounds is decidedly OP.

[stinkenheim]

on a side note... can you even take 2 warbosses, you never used to be able to

 

Yes you can, and each one lets you take a unit of nobz or meganobz as troops choices.

 

ooh.. i'm glad my friend hasn't learnt that... i have eough trouble dealing with a unit of 10 nobs and 10 meganobz... if he knew that i doubt he'd ever use boys again :)

[Grey Mage]

if you really want to make him cry, field nothing but Land Raider mounted units. There's precious little he can do to you, especially if you move 12 inches each turn. Just roll up on objectives in Turn 5 or so and win.

 

horde Orks is cute. I'd be more worried about Biker Nob lists as being able to shrug off upward of 10 wounds is decidedly OP.

 

Beware tankbustas though.... 2d+6 AP..... and then theres tankhammers... thats a CC railgun.

 

Horde orks can be dangerous... its just that guys setup isnt particularlly balanced at all. Its an OMG, what do I do now?!! tactic. *Sighs*

[Valerian]

In a league this is his army list:

 

 

Question. Does this mean that the army list for this particular league is fixed? Or do you (and he) have the ability to adjust between games. If it is fixed, then we probably need to know what you've got in your list, and what your experience rewards are.

 

I dabble a little with Orks on the side (have about 2500 points worth), but everyone has already given good advice, so I don't have anything to add for now.

 

Valerian

[Ryzouken]

Beware tankbustas though.... 2d+6 AP..... and then theres tankhammers... thats a CC railgun.

 

Horde orks can be dangerous... its just that guys setup isnt particularlly balanced at all. Its an OMG, what do I do now?!! tactic. *Sighs*

 

Not too worried about Tankbustas, honestly. If they get close enough to assault, just pop your troopers out and charge. Otherwise, even if they manage a charge on your Raider, you should have moved 12 last turn, meaning the regular boys get a single attack that hits on 6's, and then the Tankhammers. Of course, that even assumes they can charge you being as you moved.

[Brother Emelias]

I like what I learned from my DA forums:

 

"Fight the shooty guys, shoot the fighty guys."

 

So far, with my limited experience, this general rule of thumb has worked for me big time. In 5th Ed. if you can outmaneuver your opponent (i.e., Outflank), then you're sitting pretty with cutting them into shreds.

 

And now, I'll make my exit before I get "dog piled" for invading the SW forums and giving forth my limited 2¢. *RUN AWAY!!!*

[Wena]

Ok – here is an update:

 

1. Thank you all for the responses – we played a 2000 pt. match last night and I beat him so bad that he gave up in the middle of round 5! He had one unit of 30 boyz (with several casualties) and Ghazghkull left and I still had most of my shooting left to do…

2. I took the advice of shooting the Orks down and then choosing my assaults – wow – what a difference…

3. Here is what I used: (1250 of this is static for the league games)

 

a. Wolf Priest w/4 WGBG – AC (x2), SS/TH (x2) w/ Land Raider Transport

b. Ragnar w/ GH (x10) w/BP and CCW, PF (x1) (inside the LRC)

c. 2 units of GH (x6) w/Bolters and (x6) w/BP and CCW

d. Typhoon Land Speeder

e. WGBL w/CML and Frost Blade, w/4 WGBG – CML (x1), AC (x1), LC (x2), SB and PW (x1)

 

- The Missiles took out the Nobs before they ever reached me.

- The Land Raider took out his 5 mega-nobs (he added those in for the 2000 pts.)

- I assaulted his storm boyz with Ragnar and shot them with the LRC first then killed off the rest in CC (he got 3 hunters).

- He assaulted the speeder with Ghaz and the 30 boyz and it took him two turns to kill it (all the unit did all game)

- I shot up the rest of the units and my 6 GH took on his 2nd Warboss and killed it before they died!

 

All said and done I feel much more confident for our next match up! My total losses were 14 GH and 1 Land Speeder.

 

Open a keg of my private ale and pass it around – thanks Brothers

 

Wena

 

P.S. In the league we adjust 500 pts. between each game. After week (5) I am in 1st place out of the 24 armies with no losses and complete wipes of every army but one so far. I love my wolves (the ork player and I are not listed to play until the semi-finals – these were practice games).