Scout tactics

[greatcrusade08]

[center; background-image:url(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;"> Scout tactics: Part 4 Daemonhunters.[/center]

This is the next instalment of the scout tactics series, I will be focusing on daemonhunter opponents, whether that be inquisition armies or pure grey knights forces. Note that’s its possible to find allied lists containing some daemonhunters and some imperial guard and/or space marines. This article will deal only with the ‘pure’ daemonhunters lists.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;">Grey Knights

Daemonhunters lists normally use a lot of grey knights, on a basic level they are similar to normal space marines, but they have a few special rules and abilities that make them far more dangerous than their counterparts.
I want approach this article a little differently and outline some of their special rules and how they can affect scout forces.

Fearless: Grey knights pass all morale checks and cannot be pinned.

For scout armies this obviously affects snipers ability to pin, what it also means is that we have to completely destroy GK units to the last man.
Tactics that involve winning combats and making them run are also rendered useless, as are the LSS Cerberus launchers.

Deep strike: If taken as a fast attack choice, regular GK may deepstrike in much the same way as terminators

With the exception of the required two troops choices, the whole GK army can deepstrike if used this way, this essentially nullifies our biggest advantage which is our ability to use infiltrate and scout move to our own benefit, with their massed storm bolter shooting. Deepstriking GK units can easily tear through scout units, the one advantage is that they cannot assault on the same turn as deepstrike.

Aegis: Gives GK units extra protection against psychic attacks

This takes away librarians from our list of HQ units as a potential choice, if we cannot guarantee success, we would be better off with another choice.

The Shrouding: Enemies have to roll a 'spotting' distance when shooting at GK units

Longer range weapons like sniper rifles become less viable against these units at longer range, the dice can roll anything between 9 and 52, considering the 'average' roll is 30" is doesn’t completely remove our sniper units as viable options.

GK special weapons: Most grey knights units can upgrade two of their storm bolters to either psycannons or incinerators. Both of these weapons are extremely harmful to scout units with AP4, the psycannon shots can be negated by making best use of cover and/or camo cloaks, but incinerators act like heavy flamers and are devastating to our units. If your opponent knows he is playing a scout force, he may well max out his deepstriking lists with incinerators knowing the potential damage he could do.
The only real way to combat this is to minimise casualties by combat squading our units and/or putting them in transports, be it LSS or land raider with our HQ choice.

Army selection

Taking all the above information into account, its probably wise to reduce the number of snipers in our armies, a single squad with Telion and maybe cloaks could help cause the occasional wounds, Telion has the potential to kill squad leaders and can kill Inquisitors and grey knights heros who can both take retinues.
Grey knights are quite expensive for space marines and their armies will be relatively small, taking a couple squads of shotgunners is a pretty effective way of thinning their units before assault, by throwing in power weapons we can do some more damage in combat despite them being higher strength, because we are the same Initiative.
By taking a good CC character with a unit of CCW scouts, we can potentially put down a good uber unit which should be more than capable of killing GKs, also the transport keeps the scouts safe from incinerators and psycannon shots.
CCW scouts are also pretty effective against stormtroopers, who with S3 and T3 should be easy pickings in CC for our units.
Most GK armies I see normally have transport vehicles for their units, including land raiders, the best way to deal with these is to take combi-meltas and meltabombs on as many of your units as possible.
The 'suicide squad' tactics works well at damaging land raiders, and if we can make them disembark as early as possible it gives us more time to down them with shooting.

Heavy weapons: What heavy weapons you use is more dependant on what units your opponent takes, ML are better for knocking out transports and killing standard GKs, whilst the heavy bolter is excellent at taking down stormtroopers.
As its not always possible to see your opponents list before the game, I leave this decision to your own personal preference. I often find however that MLs work better within sniper units, as snipers can rend which helps take out power armour and can even destroy low armour transports.

Tactics

I have briefly highlighted some of the big decisions when facing grey knights.
You have to make your numbers count by combat squadding as much as possible, this way the twenty or so storm bolter shots a GK unit can fire combined with the incinerator and or psycannons, can only kill five scouts in a single turn, even though they have the potential to do much more!
We have to avoid them using thier special weapons, this either means tying them up in assault which is risky due to thier strength bonuses, or we keep out of thier range and shoot them up.
If they grey knights take land raiders for their troops choices, they can move across the battlefield and assault without incident.
What we need to do to prevent this is remove these transports early in the game with dedicated anti-tank units (LSS with multi-melta) or suicide bike squads, failing this by already combat squadding we can minimise our casualties when they do assault. Using this tactic we have to make sure we don’t allow them multiple unit assaults.

All eggs in one basket tactic: there is a more interesting tactic is available if you wanted to live dangerously, its only appropriate if we win first turn.
As we set up last, we wait for our opponent to place his land raiders (and embarked units) and set up our dedicated anti-tank units as close as possible ready for 'suicide' tactics. If we double up on this tactic we increase our chance of this working, so a 3 man bike squad and LSS with MM for each land raider, allows us a multi-melta shot a combi-melta shot and a meltabomb attack (auto hit). Our aim is to destroy the LR and make the unit disembark, ready for assaults from our infiltrated CC units.
This tactic would work best with either Shrike for fleet or Vulkan to re-roll melta shots, of course Shrike has the option to take a more dangerous assault unit without destroying the feel of a scout army, see HQ article for more information on this.

The key is to deny the GK squads chance to shoot and instead overwhelm them in assault, most of them dont have power weapons so thier strength bonuses only help to a point, we need to maximise attacks back to kill off as many as possible and win combat (just so we dont run).
This tactic also works with stormtroopers in dedicated transports, and would be far more successful in this case.

We cant always guarantee we will get the first turn, nor can we say that our opponent will take land raiders, if they footslog or arrive by deepstrike then by far the best way to deal with them, has to be with a decent sized unit of bikes. If we arm them with grenade launchers and a fist, they should be able to take down an equal number of S6 T4 grey knights if they can get the charge, even more so if we can get an initiative boost from Khan on bike in the unit.
Also the extra mobility of the bikes helps us to get first charge whilst remaining out of range of the deadly incinerators.

Using HQ

I strongly suggest reading the HQ tactics article, but one of the ideas I suggested and often use, is to take a decent CC character in a land raider, this allows us to take heavy weapons that can help knock out enemy tanks, and also allows us to get into combat without taking casualties.
My own choice is to use Khan with ccw scouts, this allows my unit to charge with S5 and intiative 5 (Khan gets 6), any characters not in a retinue can also be instantly killed by Khan as no daemonhunters are immune to instant death.
Against space marines the 10 strong unit of scouts armed with power sword, will strike first and should be able to reduce their numbers enough before they strike back.
We could improve this further by adding a chaplain, but I prefer to spend the points on more scouts.
By using this unit combined with a land raider crusade or redeemer we have the potential to wipe out whole units of GK in one turn, with either the massed fire of the LRC or the AP3 flamestorm cannons on the redeemer.

Final thoughts

With pure grey knights your facing a much smaller army, combat squadding is essential as is taking out transports and we have to minimise our own casualties.
If the daemonhunters force include more stormtroopers then we must rely on CC to do most of the work, as stormtroopers have a greater BS than scouts and can be taken in numbers.
We cannot afford to be in a shooting match with these boys, deny them their advantage (better BS) and use our own advantages (greater S and T).

Hope this helps

GC08

[greatcrusade08]

Hey guys, this is WIP and all tips will be taken on board as i know very little about daemonhunters.

 

Thanks

GC08

[Twin .44]

well, I see a few issues. Grey Knights can't have dedicated transports. It's petty, but just so you know.

 

Next, A GK Nemesis Force Weapon gives a +2 Strength bonus in close combat, and depending on rank, it can also be a power weapon.

 

Next is the charge deal. GK have True Grit with Storm Bolters (Not GKT) so whether they charge or not, they always have an additional attack. Not only that, normally a GK will do everything they can to not let you get the charge, but ten less counter-attacks is still ten less counter attacks, so scouts definitely need to outfox the GK. shrike will definitely help out in that. personally I would suggest a Vanguard squad attached with him kitted out with melta bombs to surround the typical land raider GK List and hope to box the GK inside it so they can be immediately wiped out. Make sure you scream "Reach out and touch someone!" if you blow it up turn one.

 

Don't forget out WS 5. almost no matter what you throw at us, we hit on 3's. furious charge is something a Daemonhunter should be terrified of, not to mention hit and run.

 

I may have missed a few things, but I'll check again later.

 

 

-Edit- If you are facing a Stormtrooper list, it's most likely an inquisitor list. Watch out for those assassins as they can be extremely deadly, especially the Callidus. "Hi Shrike! Die Shrike!" If she does her job right (along with damn good saves) she will kill your HQ while tying up the unit, vulnerable to another charge from something scarier.

[greatcrusade08]

well, I see a few issues. Grey Knights can't have dedicated transports. It's petty, but just so you know.

 

Next, A GK Nemesis Force Weapon gives a +2 Strength bonus in close combat, and depending on rank, it can also be a power weapon.

 

Ah i thought it was on the charge...ok that will be edited...

As for transports they dont have to be dedicated to start embarked do they?

 

If you are facing a Stormtrooper list, it's most likely an inquisitor list. Watch out for those assassins as they can be extremely deadly, especially the Callidus. "Hi Shrike! Die Shrike!" If she does her job right (along with damn good saves) she will kill your HQ while tying up the unit, vulnerable to another charge from something scarier.

 

Ill see what i can put in about those assasins..

 

Thanks

GC08

[Twin .44]

As for transports they dont have to be dedicated to start embarked do they?

 

I think 5th edition changed that and you can start a squad inside it so long as it is empty. so yeah, you are right, it was just something to point out. GK aren't really that mechanized as they rely upon abilites to protect them rather than tanks.

 

-edit- wow I suck at remembering stuff. Anyway, don't forget that GK still follow 3rd edition rules for Force Weapons and Psychic hoods. Eternal Warrior won't save you from the onslaught of a GK Grand Master, not to mention Board wide Psychic Stopping Power!

[greatcrusade08]

-edit- wow I suck at remembering stuff. Anyway, don't forget that GK still follow 3rd edition rules for Force Weapons and Psychic hoods. Eternal Warrior won't save you from the onslaught of a GK Grand Master, not to mention Board wide Psychic Stopping Power!

 

Ay yeah your right, i wrote that psykers are not a great choice, this backs that up further, the eternal warrior i may add in later, its not a big concern i generally dont use or recommend marneus or Lysander for scout armies..

Still thanks for tips... gold star :D

 

GC08

[Reclusiarch Darius]

For scout armies this obviously affects snipers ability to pin, what it also means is that we have to completely destroy GK units to the last man.

Tactics that involve winning combats and making them run are also rendered useless, as are the LSS Cerberus launchers.

 

Don't even bother with sniper rifles. As for close-combat, you haven't got a hope, they'll wipe the floor with you and kill of the Sarge powerfist before he can swing.

 

With the exception of the required two troops choices, the whole GK army can deepstrike if used this way, this essentially nullifies our biggest advantage which is our ability to use infiltrate and scout move to our own benefit, with their massed storm bolter shooting, deepstriking GK units can easily tear through scout units,

 

Except thats not how it works. The only thing Deepstriking are GKT's. PAGK are either foot-slogging with psycannons or riding around in Landraiders with incinerators.

 

the one advantage is that they cannot assault on the same turn as deepstrike, so we can assault them and deny them their strength bonuses

 

They are always S6, the only time this isn't the case is on specialists (who have to drop it for the psycannon/incinerator they carry). Also, we don't get the charge bonus (due to 'True Grit'), so PAGK don't mind getting charged.

This takes away librarians from our list of HQ units as a potential choice, if we cannot guarantee success, we would be better off with another choice.

 

Only against 'targeted' powers (so the shooting powers are out). However, AOE and 'buff' powers will still work (so 'Null Zone' still works, as does 'Might', 'Quickening' etc). Your opponent will need to buy a psychic hood on his Inquisitor Lord or GK Hero to really mess with your Libby.

Longer range weapons like sniper rifles become less viable against these units at longer range, the dice can roll anything between 9 and 52, considering the 'average' roll is 30" is doesn’t completely remove our sniper units as viable options.

 

Don't even bother. Sniper rifles are worse than bolters or shotguns, because of their low ROF. Their special abilities (pinning, Rending) mean nothing to 'Fearless' 3+ save infantry who commonly camp out in cover or in Landraiders.

 

GK special weapons: Most grey knights units can upgrade two of their storm bolters to either psycannons or incinerators. Both of these weapons are extremely harmful to scout units with AP4, the psycannon shots can be negated by making best use of cover and/or camo cloaks, but incinerators act like heavy flamers and are devastating to our units. If your opponent knows he is playing a scout force, he may well max out his deepstriking lists with incinerators knowing the potential damage he could do.

 

If I were playing a 10th Company army, I'd take mechanised Knights with incinerators, packed into Landraiders. You're down to one-shot meltaguns or Landspeeder Storms to take them out, both of which I can intercept and destroy with impunity. Once those threats are taken care of, I can simply incinerate squad after squad.

The only real way to combat this is to minimise casualties by combat squading our units and/or putting them in transports, be it LSS or land raider with our HQ choice.

 

LSS will get shot out of the sky by psycannons and heavy bolter/lascannon/Hurricane bolters on the Raiders. You'll be having to rely on one Landraider to take out 2-3 smoke-screened Landraiders, which isn't a fair fight (especially when the Crusader trundles 12" forwards and uses the multi-melta on your Landraider, then it's cargo of GKT disembarks and annhilates your HQ+attached squad).

Taking all the above information into account, its probably wise to reduce the number of snipers in our armies, a single squad with Telion and maybe cloaks could help cause the occasional wounds, Telion has the potential to kill squad leaders and can kill Inquisitors and grey knights heros who can both take retinues.

 

Inquisitors can pawn wounds onto their Acolytes, so they actually negate Telion's shots. The Brother-Captain could be sniped (he only has 1 wound), but Stern and the generic Grandmaster are simply too tough. Don't bother with sniper teams, they're a waste of points.

 

Grey knights are quite expensive for space marines and their armies will be relatively small, taking a couple of ccw squads with shotgunners, for massed fire and assaults will serve two purposes:

Firstly massed fire is pretty good at causing kills to power armoured units and secondly by getting the charge you deny them their greatest strengths.

 

They will be in small numbers, but they're so dangerous it doesn't matter. You can't do much better than 2-1 outnumbering them, and they'll go through Scout squads in pretty short order (especially if you Combat squad them).

You don't deny them anything by charging first, they get the same amount of attacks standing still (due to 'True Grit') and they're always S6.

 

By taking a good CC character with a unit of CCW scouts, we can potentially put down a good uber unit which should be more than capable of killing GKs, also the transport keeps the scouts safe from incinerators and psycannon shots.

 

You can bring whatever assault character you want, the Grandmaster+retinue will annhilate them (yes, even Calgar, should you go completely overboard). Your lone Landraider is going to have a hard time against mechansied Knights, because they will have more Raiders than you and tougher as well (not to mention the Crusader multi-melta).

 

CCW scouts are also pretty effective against stormtroopers, who with S3 and T3 should be easy pickings in CC for our units.

 

Good point. However, most DH players only bring IST's for the plasma (because SoB can bring meltagun in the same quantites and be better for a tiny point increase over Stormies), and fully expect them to die.

Most GK armies I see normally have transport vehicles for their units, including land raiders, the best way to deal with these is to take combi-meltas and meltabombs on as many of your units as possible.

 

I'd say you should use Outflanking bikers with combi-melta+powerfist on Sarge.

The 'suicide squad' tactics works well at damaging land raiders, and if we can make them disembark as early as possible it gives us more time to down them with shooting.

 

GK Landraider have 'glancing only' smoke launchers, so don't shoot them on the initial. Wait until he's used up his smokes, then use your combi-meltas/LSS multi-meltas on his Raiders.

 

Heavy weapons: What heavy weapons you use is more dependant on what units your opponent takes, ML are better for knocking out transports and killing standard GKs, whilst the heavy bolter is excellent at taking down stormtroopers.

As its not always possible to see your opponents list before the game, I leave this decision to your own personal preference. I often find however that MLs work better within sniper units, as snipers can rend which helps take out power armour and can even destroy low armour transports.

 

I think you'd be better off with the heavy bolter. Those Hellfire shells do nasty things to IST's, and you can force a lot of saves on PAGK's as well. Sniper rifles are pretty near-useless.

You have to make your numbers count by combat squadding as much as possible, this way the twenty or so storm bolter shots a GK unit can fire combined with the incinerator and or psycannons, can only kill five scouts in a single turn, even though they have the potential to do much more!

 

That just makes it easier for him to target your Sarge combi-meltas/powerfists, which are the real threat (Scout shotgun/bolter isn't of huge concern).

 

If the grey knights take land raiders for their troops choices, they can move across the battlefield and assault without incident.

What we need to do is remove these transports early in the game with dedicated anti-tank units (LSS with multi-melta) or suicide bike squads, failing this by already combat squadding we can minimise our casualties when they do assault. Using this tactic we have to make sure we don’t allow them multiple unit assaults.

 

As I said before, it just makes taking out the powerfist/combi-melta Sarge easier, due to less ablative wounds. Once he's killed your Sarges, he can largely ignore/destroy with impunity your remaining Scouts.

 

All eggs in one basket tactic: there is a more interesting tactic is available if you wanted to live dangerously.

As we set up last, we wait for our opponent to place his land raiders (and embarked units) and set up our dedicated anti-tank units as close as possible ready for 'suicide' tactics. If we double up on this tactic we increase our chance of this working, so a 3 man bike squad and LSS with MM for each land raider, allows us a multi-melta shot a combi-melta shot and a meltabomb attack (auto hit). Our aim is to destroy the LR and make the unit disembark, ready for assaults from our infiltrated CC units.

This tactic would work best with either Shrike for fleet or Vulkan to re-roll melta shots, of course Shrike has the option to take a more dangerous assault unit without destroying the feel of a scout army, see HQ article for more information on this.

 

It won't work. He'll either pop smoke or move forwards and shoot your LSS/biker squads apart. You need 1st turn to get off your 'suicide' run.

Fleeting Scouts don't really matter against a mechanised Knight list, as the Raiders are pretty much immune to Scouts in combat.

 

The key is to deny the GK squads chance to shoot and instead overwhelm them in assault, at this point they are no better than space marines and we should be able to force a win.

 

In combat, they hit you on 3+ and wound you on 2+, with you only having a 4+ save (and the Justicar ignores that). Your return attacks hit on 4+ and wound on a 4+, and they get a 3+ armour save (your Sarges may ignore their saves if you bought power weapons, but you'll still be hitting and wounding on 4+, or in the case of powerfist going dead last and wounding on 2+). You can't win, they're just too good.

We cant always guarantee we will get the first turn, nor can we say that our opponent will take land raiders, if they footslog or arrive by deepstrike then by far the best way to deal with them, has to be with a decent sized unit of bikes. If we arm them with grenade launchers and a fist, they should be able to take down an equal number of S4 T4 grey knights if they can get the charge.

Also the extra mobility of the bikes helps us to get first charge whilst remaining out of range of the deadly incinerators.

 

The bike grenade launchers will be somewhat useful, but you will get shot up a lot by storm bolter+psycannons (not to mention Raider heavy bolters/Hurricanes/assault cannons). Once in combat, your T5 does knock them down to wounding on 3+, but you'll still lose horribly.

My own choice is to use Khan with ccw scouts, this allows my unit to charge with S5 and intiative 5 (Khan gets 6), any characters not in a retinue can also be instantly killed by Khan as no daemonhunters are immune to instant death.

 

Yeah, but you're at WS3. Half your attacks miss, a third of your hits don't wound, and they're still making 3+ armour saves (except for the Sarge and Khan).

Against space marines the 10 strong unit of scouts armed with power sword, will strike first and should be able to reduce their numbers enough before they strike back.

 

It's a pointless comparison, because Khan will simply rampage through the unit.

Shotgun/bolt pistol+ccw Scouts might work, but you'll need 2-1 or 3-1 squad ratio's to kill off the Grey Knights.

 

By using this unit combined with a land raider crusade or redeemer we have the potential to wipe out whole units of GK in one turn, with either the massed fire of the LRC or the AP3 flamestorm cannons on the redeemer.

 

He'll blow up your one Landraider with lascannon/multi-melta on his own Raiders, then unload his cargo to finish off your stranded ones.

With pure grey knights your facing a much smaller army, combat squadding is essential as is taking out transports, we have to minimise their abilities (denying charges) and minimise our own casualties.

 

They don't get any bonus while charging, they have 'True Grit' and NFW's always 'in use'.

 

We cannot afford to be in a shooting match with these boys, deny them their advantage (better BS) and use our own advantages (greater S and T).

 

You'll have to drown them in bodies then. Shotgun Scouts out of LSS/Scout bikers going 2-1 against Grey Knights have a hope of victory.

[greatcrusade08]

Thanks for the in depth look Darius... most of that was covered and changed a while ago, but i still appreciate your time and energy..

The eggs in one basket is a first turn tactic, ill have to add that in.

 

He'll blow up your one Landraider with lascannon/multi-melta on his own Raiders, then unload his cargo to finish off your stranded ones.

Not if ive taken them out first :D

 

Except thats not how it works. The only thing Deepstriking are GKT's. PAGK are either foot-slogging with psycannons or riding around in Landraiders with incinerators.

Actually any GK unit taken as fast attack instead of troops may DS, its in the codex..

 

GC08

[Twin .44]

-edit- wow I suck at remembering stuff. Anyway, don't forget that GK still follow 3rd edition rules for Force Weapons and Psychic hoods. Eternal Warrior won't save you from the onslaught of a GK Grand Master, not to mention Board wide Psychic Stopping Power!

 

Ay yeah your right, i wrote that psykers are not a great choice, this backs that up further, the eternal warrior i may add in later, its not a big concern i generally dont use or recommend marneus or Lysander for scout armies..

Still thanks for tips... gold star :P

 

GC08

 

 

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! GOLD STAR!

sorry, haven't had one of those since i was in second grade.

 

But I agree with Darius in saying that snipers are useless. I have been running ten and have killed/wounded mabye four things out of almost ten games and died in 8 of them. meanwhile a sternguard squad has a 150+ body count and was wiped out once. so out of my experience, snipers are useless unless your bringing the whole party. i have yet to try out CC scouts, but in my BT army, they have proven themselves as awesome, and sometimes killed more than their initiate brethren.

 

and on the LR, do what I said with the Vanguard. you need some vets to show the 10th company how it's done :D

[greatcrusade08]

Yeah i covered the HQ stuff in the article i did a while back, Shrike can take assault troops or vanguard without damaging the theme of the army, its a good idea for putting soem hard hitting troops into the game..

but arent they I4 still, that would mean they would get hurt too.

I much prefer Khans Furious charge to hit first, you could always use a command squad for more power weapon goodness, that would fit the fluff too... very expensive though, but then so are vanguard...

 

GC08

Edit: snipers are hit or miss against marines, i normally run a single squad, just because you never know whats going to happen, a couple of 6's to wound means dead GK....

[Gentlemanloser]

Actually any GK unit taken as fast attack instead of troops may DS, its in the codex..

 

While correct, I'm quietly confident not one GK player will trade thier PAGK Scoring status for the ability to DS. You'll only see DSing Terminators.

 

You have to make your numbers count by combat squadding as much as possible

 

This will only make you much weaker in CC.

 

You'll have to decide which you think is least damaging. Suffering 24" SB fire, or 23 S6 CC attacks. CS would help you if you want to combat GK shooting, but keep 10 Man squads if you plan on assaulting the GK.

 

Also, Justicars can pick up Psycannon Bolts for thier SB, which makes it AP4.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Thanks for the in depth look Darius... most of that was covered and changed a while ago, but i still appreciate your time and energy..

The eggs in one basket is a first turn tactic, ill have to add that in.

 

I just assumed you'd made whatever changes needed in the OP. In other words, I can't be bothered back-tracking over the previous pages ;) ^_^ glad I could help.

 

I really think you're biting off more than you can chew, trying to make a 10th Company list work against Daemonhunters. Grey Knights are specifically designed to annihilate lesser infantry, and Scouts are definitely in that category. Good luck if you do end up having a battle :D

While correct, I'm quietly confident not one GK player will trade thier PAGK Scoring status for the ability to DS. You'll only see DSing Terminators.

 

I whole-heartedly agree. Even just taking PAGK solely as Troops, most players struggle to fit more than 3-4 squads into a list (due to the need for Landraiders, GKT's, Dreadnoughts, the Grandmaster etc). We simply can't afford to take non-scoring models outside of Apocalypse (and in that case, we'll be using the 'Redeemer' data-sheet so we can Deepstrike everything ;) ).

 

GKT's will probably be Deepstriking however (if not being carted around in a Crusader), and their incinerator is pure death to Scout squads. You'll need to think carefully about how to guard against Deepstriking GKT's.

You'll have to decide which you think is least damaging. Suffering 24" SB fire, or 23 S6 CC attacks. CS would help you if you want to combat GK shooting, but keep 10 Man squads if you plan on assaulting the GK.

 

Also, Justicars can pick up Psycannon Bolts for thier SB, which makes it AP4.

 

Considering all that, I'd recommend staying in 10-man squads and buying camo-cloaks. Incinerators will still destroy you, but with 3+ (or 2+ if you pin yourself) cover saves, you can weather storm bolter/psycannon a lot more effectively.

For weapons I recommend shotguns and a heavy bolter. The heavy bolter lets you force plenty of saves on GK's and can really maul IST's badly, and when the GK's try to assault you, move up and pummel them with shotgun, before assaulting (as you'll want 3A's with the Sarge powerfist).

[greatcrusade08]

I really think you're biting off more than you can chew, trying to make a 10th Company list work against Daemonhunters. Grey Knights are specifically designed to annihilate lesser infantry, and Scouts are definitely in that category. Good luck if you do end up having a battle ^_^

 

Yeah i get this advice alot, and have had this discussion on the tyranid tactica.

My aim is to create a guide for those who wish to play scout armies, so that we can maximise our potential against these certain armies.. That doesnt mean we can win, just make a better show of it.

Lets face it no-one plays scouts to win tourneys!

Its all about the fluff and unique-ness behind the armies, and with a little help we should be able to do okay against average gamers at the average LGC.

 

I do appreciate all the advice and i will be implementing certain bits.

I figured combat squad the shooty troops and keep the assault troops together to deliver the power fists, i think that meets in the middle of survivability and ablative wounds points..

 

GC08