500-700pt battles vs. Orcs...help!

[Sgt. Farney]

So, my constant opponent plays with orcs and he wants to play small battles for time's sake.

the problem is ... at 600 pts. i'm only getting about 35 guys... he's got near 40 joes / 2 trucks .& 6 chopters (Orcy helecopters... for those of you who haven't

faced them yet ...they have 2W and 5T on a fast attack scout jetbike w/ twin linked guns ..or.. rockets...Ouch!)

I am facing x2 wounds & x3 guns.

 

He sits back with 15 loota's shooting S7 across the table ... next to his boss with the zap gun ....while running in his 2 squads of cheap assault fodder in trucks and mean-while my guys cant shoot at anything but the 6 chopters that he crammed up my rump on turn 1.

 

I have 25 scouts ( incl. helion..10 snipers and the rest with pistol & knife)... 2 full tac. squads ( w freebie wpns)... 2 (mostly full ) devistator squads ( 2 Las...2 hvy bolt...2 M. launcher..2 .plasma)... ... 2 dreads (both melta)....

10 ass. terms/ 5 vanilla terms... termie chaplain... captain w command squad ... pred w las & bolters .... & 2 speeders ( 1. (plasma /flamer) 2.( Hvy bolt/ hurricane))

 

I think I have tried every combo for small pt games but, fail... fail... fail...

 

army list suggestions welcome!

[foster]

Here's a list I've recently built up with fast and fairly tough units in mind, hasn't been used yet so I'm eager to use it a see how well it does for myself:

 

;)

Space Marine Captain with relic blade, bike and hellfire rounds 175pts

:)

8 man Space Marine Bike Squad with powerfist and flamer 245pts

5 man Scout Squad with shotguns 75pts

:)

Land Speeder Storm with heavy flamer 60pts

Attack Bike with multi-melta 50pts

 

605pts

 

The bike unit is fast, able to fire thier twin-linked boltguns at max range (24" single shots) and charge whilst rapid fireing into your targets. The unit can dish out rapid fire shots easier then any tactical squad can, which makes it very usefull for taking out fast units like deffkoptas who can't stand to that punishment. It's a nice unit that can be kitted out for any additional roles with extra assualt weapons, and are able to handle themselves well in close combat when teamed with the Captain and relic blade. The lone Attack bike can either be with the bike squadron or not, whichever suits you best.

 

The Land Speeder Storm is there to turn the Scouts into a tactical unit that can be used for cleaning up small units, to take objectives, to go hunting targets or all three at once. At the least the land speeder lets the scouts get close enough to shoot thier shotguns while not be vunerable to small arms fire and counter assaults (just don't decide to do it in front of those lootas). This unit shouldn't have any trouble dealing with a Trukk of 12 boys as long as you have taken out thier truck (I prefer the attack bike to do this since this allows the scouts to fire at the unit that spills out), 10 shotgun shots and a heavy flamer template will do alot of damage to an Ork unit of under 12.

 

Small on numbers I know, but if you can't beat the Orks with numbers why not use more specialised units that are fast, can hit hard and can harass the flanks of the Orks. Basically you want to stay alive as long as possible, so stay away from his main force and target any unit on its own.

 

I know you don't have most of these models, but you should get a bike squadron anyway because they rock.

 

GL with your list, like you my opponant is always an Ork player so I'm rooting for you.

[Droma]

Is he playing with all of those models in a 500 point game? Because 40 boyz, 15 lootas, and 1 trukk come out to 500 points even. All those models with 0 upgrades come in at 840 points. Double check all his army lists because if what your saying is true his lists aren't actually legal.

 

Remember things like only mobs of 12 boyz can have a trukk so if more than that come out call him on it. Double check all his point costs and upgrades against his codex is the biggest thing I think that will help you win games.

 

Remember his toughness 5 on the choppers does nothing against str8 and above weapons because they cause instant death so go against his t4. Make sure you know the morale rules well because once his mobs stop being feerless so any unit with 11 or less models they are extremely easy to have run. The trukks die very easy so getting first turn and popping them with lascannons or the multi-melta dreads will make things a lot easier for you. Never let orks charge you, if you can't avoid a charge then charge them first. Your guys have pistols so they can shoot then charge. Try to not split fire as much as possible so take out a unit at a time when your able. Use terrain to your advantage, if you can make them waste turns making difficult terrain tests to get to you then you have more time to shoot them.

 

That should be enough ork tips, the big thing is double check all his lists are legal before you play again.

[waaanial00]

Hi there,

 

A couple of things to help you out. I presume by your boss with zzaap gun you are talking about the big hoover looking thing with spinny front (shock attack gun). Have you considered getting a drop pod for your dread and dropping it right next to the lootas turn 1? Just exit the dread on the other side of the drop pod and then the lootas will either have to move to avoid your dreads charge or next turn they will have a very mean looking dread (which none of them can wound) charging at them. An alternative is to drop and pop smoke, this will give you some save potential on the number of shots that you will come under.

 

The deffkoptas are not that tough, believe me I have used them enough times to know when they crack. They are only LD7 and S3(4), if he has paid for the buzzsaw upgrade then they are power fists at S6(7) (still not Instant death). This means that whilst they are tough they are not that strong and once they lose a kopter you will find that they do not stick around very long for the fight. They are also needing to throw a 2 or 1 in order to successfully complete a hit and run attack because of their poor initative.

 

As Droma has stated above he cannot take a trukk if he has more than 12 Orks its in his codex under the description for Ork Boys and is in the points and options section. Get him to produce his codex if he tries to pull this on you. The prhase you are looking for is "if the squad is 12 or less boys" or something like that and remember that Mega Armour counts for 2 orks.

 

Oh and coming back to that annoying Shock Attack gun, assuming that this is what you are facing up against it is something like 100 points for this model. This might not sound much considering out stock HQ comes at this price but as the basic model is something in the region of 35 points, it only comes with a 6+ save and the gun itself is highly unpredictable you could be facing worse.

 

Lets now talk general guidance as I believe we have covered all of the specifics.

 

Firstly dont attempt to match his numbers! This is an important lesson methinks because as an Ork he will always have more.

 

Secondly dont discount the need for transport just because you are facing Orks who will come at you, as you have already seen those damn Lootas just sit there and pump out round after round at you without your guys being able to do anything about it.

 

Thirdly prepare for combat, they are orks and therefore you know that they are going to reach you in combat.

 

Fourth take out his transports as priority 1.

 

Fifth concentrate fire on one target at a time rather than spread fire.

 

Hope this all helps. If I am able to dig my codex out from underneath all my boxes I might be able to get you a list but not right now.

 

Wan

[Droma]

Have you considered getting a drop pod for your dread and dropping it right next to the lootas turn 1? Just exit the dread on the other side of the drop pod and then the lootas will either have to move to avoid your dreads charge or next turn they will have a very mean looking dread (which none of them can wound) charging at them. An alternative is to drop and pop smoke, this will give you some save potential on the number of shots that you will come under.

 

Good idea with the dread, I don't have the new sm dex as I play DA but does the pod have a rule for coming in first turn? Otherwise your looking at turn 2 at the soonest if your following normal reserves rules, so turn 3 charge at the soonest.

[Tutteman]

Yep, the rule drop pod assault means that you have to deep strike half (rounding up) of your drop pods on the first turn.

[Droma]

Thanks Tutteman, my interest in picking up the dex and making a drop pod army is now greatly increased.

[Tutteman]

My pleasure :D

[Sgt. Farney]

OK >>> so I go get drop pods ... they seem the best option

[waaanial00]

As I waqs the one to point out the Drop pod I feel it should be me to point out the rarely voiced warning. Do not over extend yourself... Ok the tactic of dropping the dread near to the lootas sounds great in isolation (and I do still think tha thtis is the way to go).

 

However consider that this is happening at the start of turn 1, assume that it is not Dawn of War and that the lootas are actually on, a smart Ork player with at least one Trukk mob is going to counter your dread tactic by rushing towards it and engaging it. I mention this because unless you have something speedy enough to get to the dread after it has dropped it is essentially a one hit suicide/distraction troop. The can all be mitigated by how you deploy/aim said drop pod. If you know that regardless of where you are going to place it the Orks will surely charge into it then just place the drop pod and dread in the most awkward place blocking the most amount of firing angles for the lootas you can.

 

Noone in their right mind is going to leave a healthy dread sitting in their deployment zone however knowing that they will have to react to it will completely disrupt their battle plans for the first turn at least which if your force is mobile and/or lethal at long range you should be able to make the Orks pay.

 

Either way my initial comment of shoot the trukks goes!

 

Wan

[travh20]

for SM, orks at 500 points are VERY hard to defeat. There are just to many models. At 500 points I have a master and 2 tac squads, the orks can get 40 boys with power klaw nobs, a tooled out warboss and a killa kan for that. Try killing 40 orks, a tooled out warboss and a killa kan with 2 tac squads before they get to you. If you are lucky your orbital bombarment will hit and kill a bunch of them, but I havent been so lucky.

[Ming]

1. Add more terrain to block his LOS and channel the orks and hide the speeders from his lootas/shootas/shokkers. When I set up terrain I have been using a random ROT of D3 pieces of terrain per 2x2; I'm changing that to D3+1...per 2foot by 2foot table area.

2. Have a small unit - devs or dread - focus on the truks. Always fire on the vehicles before firing on other targets that turn. Can change your decision process.

3. All other firepower needs to be on the mobz if on foot or easy kill targets.

4. If annihilation do not combat squad. Ever.

5. If objectives - do not combat squad unless you need to (like to split your fire). Regardless - stay concentrated.

6. Keep a front line if being charged, and a countercharge line behind them.

7. Vehicles in squadrons (kans, chopters, etc.) that become immobilized are destroyed instead (new 5th ed squadron rules oftern overlooked)

 

Suggested list based on what you may have to use (games this size should be on a 4x6 table, optimally 4x4)- regardless, have to balance out maximizing the number of dice you shoot per turn, vs number you could get in CC.

 

Fire Dice Potential = FDP; Close Combat Dice Potential = CCDP (FDP for short vs long range; CCDP for charged vs charging)

 

Cheap Captain, PF, 125 pts (FDP = 1-2; CCDP = 3)

Tac Squad, ML-Flamer, PF about 200 points (FDP = 10 - 24; CCDP = 11 - 21)

Dev squad, 4xHB-ML, about 140 points (FDP = 5 - 13; CCDP = 6 - 11)

Landspeeder, 2xHB or 2xHF 60 points (FDP = 6-8; CCDP = 0)

Second tactical squad, PF, PC, Flamer, about 200 points (as above).

725 pts +/-

 

If annihilation - go for the easy points first - Truks then chopters then Kans, etc. Keep terrain between you and the lootas so he has to come to you or move them to get shots - just doing that rrenders them useless for 2 turns +/-.

[minigun762]

Cheap firepower tools would also be useful.

I think every 500 point SM list should have the Dakka Predator in there, for 85 points you get 3 infantry killing weapons that can also threaten light armor and MCs. Seems like a steal to me.

Related, having a TL Heavy Bolter Razorback is a good idea and its useful against the vast majority of opponents you'll play, not just Orks.

 

I'd keep the HQ choice really cheap in such a small game. The Chaplain actually seems like the perfect choice. Normally I wouldn't run a HQ by themselves, but a Jump Pack Chaplain is cheap and a threat to most targets he assaults. He can also be used to hold a Ork squad for a turn, or deny them their charge, allowing you some breathing room. Plus it seems rather fitting to have a Chaplain sacrifice himself to save his Battle Brothers (even if you are filthy Loyalists)

 

Denying him the charge is a big bonus, so don't be scared to charge him first. You have Bolt Pistols, +1 attack and you'll hit before him always. Against a small squad, you can kill enough to force a LD check on them and hopefully run them down.

[Bannus]

You need cheap, effective firepower against the Orcs.

 

Forget the Devastator Squads. You need a Thunderfire Cannon or two. :angry: