DH - Giving Acolytes armor

[nathan-san]

I'm finally including an Inquisitor in my Daemonhunters list, and I'm wondering how I should equip my acolytes, so that they has better absorb wounds for the Inquisitor.

Is it better to have

->LESS Acolytes with BETTER protection

or

->MORE Acolytes with WORSE protection?

 

E.g. should I equip them (for roughly equivalent points)

 

-> 1 x Acolyte w/Artificer Armor (2+)

vs

-> 2 x Acolyte w/Carapace Armor (4+)

vs

-> 3 x Naked Acolyte (6+)

 

Should I bother giving some of them Refractor fields for a 5+ inv save, instead of regular armor?

 

 

Now, I play on a Cityfight board with heaps of cover. From a shooting perspective, I suppose Naked Acolytes are just fine, since I'll be using my cover save most of the time anyway. In close combat, though, it matters since I can't get cover. However, I will also be subjected to power weapons and things that ignore armor, so then it might matter to give them Invulnerable Saves

 

 

In addition would you, instead of putting too much effort onto the Acolyte, choose to beef up the Inquisitor himself up to using Artificer or Terminator armor?

[Aidoneus]

I suppose it depends what you're doing with them. I only ever take an inquisitor as a firebase squad. In that case, close combat isn't a big worry, and I can rely on that handy ubiquitous 4+ cover save. Because of the new wound-allocation rules, I actually prefer extra mystics and familiars to acolytes, since they're cheaper and you can just allocate to them first.

 

If you use your inquisitor in a more up-close-and-personal role (short ranged shooting and/or CC) then the story will be different. In that case, it would probably be best, in all honesty, to give acolytes carapace armour and then something offensive, like a combi-bolter or a power weapon. But this is a build I don't use, so I'm not the best person to tell you about that.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Either take them with Artificer armour or don't bother. Acolytes are designed to soak up wounds, if they can't do that they're not worth taking. A 2+ save is a real boost to a unit of 6+ or 4+ armour models (with the Lord packing 3+ power armour), especially for preserving the fragile Mystics and Sages that typically accompany a Malleus Lord.

[KingDeath]

Since when can Acolythes use carapace armour?

I cant find any in my armory list in the Codex ;) ( i use the german online codex and i find the power armour, artificer armour and terminator armour there but no carapace )

[Grand Master Tyrak]

KingDeath Posted Today, 09:48 AM

Since when can Acolythes use carapace armour?

I cant find any in my armory list in the Codex -_- ( i use the german online codex and i find the power armour, artificer armour and terminator armour there but no carapace )

 

It's WH-only.

 

I prefer power armour, it give a decent save and you still have 5pts left over to outfit the acolyte with a decent weapon, usually a bolter and some frag grenades.

[Captain Malachi]

Actually Tyrak, my daemonhunter codex has carapace armour in the armoury, it's between bionics and consecrated scrolls on the first column, fourth entry in the wargear section.

 

But yeah, if I was smart enough to give them armour, I'd probably use power armour, not artificer armour for the exact reason Tyrak said, to give them a gun.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Captain Malachi Posted Today, 11:33 AM

Actually Tyrak, my daemonhunter codex has carapace armour in the armoury, it's between bionics and consecrated scrolls on the first column, fourth entry in the wargear section.

 

Gah! Stupid re-prints. -_-

[JamesI]

In the DH codex, the good guns (combi-s or stormbolters) are too expensive to do anything but carapace armor. You can do power armor and a bolter, but that's about it.

 

 

My acolyte had carapace and a stormbolter, but I haven't used her in a long time. Not much need and wasn't really worth the points.

[Prathios]

The only valid decent reason I ever take an acolyte is for another shot of plasma for the squad. 15 point plasma pistol for war gear, forget survivability, you can get 8 shots of plasma at 12"

[JamesI]

The only valid decent reason I ever take an acolyte is for another shot of plasma for the squad. 15 point plasma pistol for war gear, forget survivability, you can get 8 shots of plasma at 12"

Can't they take a combi-plasma then?

 

3 warriors with plasmaguns, 3 acolytes with combi-plasma, inquisitor with combi-plasma. Thats 14 plasma shots at 12 inches.

[Grand Master Tchezzarus]

In a retinue with HB or PC servitors (save : 4+) and Inq (4+) or IL (3+) with psycanon, you want a maximum of 6+ save to preserve you heavy as much as possible :

anyway, you'll be using 4+ cover save (3+ if you go to ground), but by being the majority save, models with 6+ save will be it first. And by putting your acolytes as far as possible of your Inq, you'll be able to redirect pie-plate wounds on them.

So for me they go naked (except for a bolter), or maximum with a carapace if I've got enough 6+ models in the retinue already (so when the 4+ is the majority save I could give 1 wound to the acolyte).

[Prathios]

Sure you could, but that would be it. I only ever take one acolyte for price sake, I don't wanna spend too much on the hq squad and 8 shots of plasma at 12" with a rhino costs about 240 so its cheap and effective. And I like to be able to squeeze the trigger more than once so combi-weapons lose out if the squad survives the round. I might mess around a bit with the combi-weapons but honestly the reliability of a pistol shot every round is worth more to me than one shot. Naturally you need two sages in the squad too for those dreaded 1's.

[Lungboy]

In a retinue with HB or PC servitors (save : 4+) and Inq (4+) or IL (3+) with psycanon, you want a maximum of 6+ save to preserve you heavy as much as possible :

anyway, you'll be using 4+ cover save (3+ if you go to ground), but by being the majority save, models with 6+ save will be it first.

 

Majority save was 4th ed, or am i misunderstanding you?

[Grand Master Tchezzarus]

Damn you're right Lungboy!

I don't know why/how but I thought that "mixed armour" rules from 4th ed and "complexe unit" where the same!

Imay have to rethink my IL retinue...

Thanks!

Tchezz.

[Apogee]

Don't forget that most retinue members (including Acos) come with laspistol/CCW by default, so they DO have a weapon even if given Artificer armour.

[Aidoneus]

To those who would use an acolyte with artificer armour for defensive reasons, let me point something out. A SINGLE artificer-armoured acolyte costs one point less than FOUR mystics and/or familiars. Given that your unit is going to be in 4+ cover basically every game, you're saying you'd rather have one 2+ save model than four 4+ save models?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

To those who would use an acolyte with artificer armour for defensive reasons, let me point something out. A SINGLE artificer-armoured acolyte costs one point less than FOUR mystics and/or familiars. Given that your unit is going to be in 4+ cover basically every game, you're saying you'd rather have one 2+ save model than four 4+ save models?

 

Yeah, because they soak up more damage. Your spamming of 6+ save models will all die in a good bolter barrage; the artificer Acolytes can withstand a lot more punishment (hence their price tag).

 

Don't forget that flamers and other 'cover ignored' weaponry will annhilate most retinues no problems in cover; having a few 2+ saves in the unit (plus the multi-wound, 3+ armour standard Lord) lets survive longer against such weaponry (because you can allocate wounds onto whoever you like).

 

The only valid decent reason I ever take an acolyte is for another shot of plasma for the squad. 15 point plasma pistol for war gear, forget survivability, you can get 8 shots of plasma at 12"

 

The problem here is that your Acolytes can't stand up in a shoot-out against anyone. You'll probably disembark, annhilate a squad of Terminators or Marines, then get boltered/flamered to death in retaliation. Thats why people build long-range retinues (heavy bolters, plasma cannon, psycannon Lord), so they can hide out in cover and prevent getting rapid-fired to death (not to mention assaulted).

 

Don't forget that most retinue members (including Acos) come with laspistol/CCW by default, so they DO have a weapon even if given Artificer armour.

 

Yeah, but that only really matters if you're fighting Guardsman or Grots (or possibly Tau Fire Warriors/Kroot).

[Apogee]

Don't forget that most retinue members (including Acos) come with laspistol/CCW by default, so they DO have a weapon even if given Artificer armour.

 

Yeah, but that only really matters if you're fighting Guardsman or Grots (or possibly Tau Fire Warriors/Kroot).

 

Still good to have, and gives them 3 attacks on the charge. Can be handy.

 

I've toyed with using Mancatchers with Power Armour, but it seems expensive and useless unless I happen to corner a army leader or somesuch. Thoughts on the 'ol catcher?

[Aidoneus]

To those who would use an acolyte with artificer armour for defensive reasons, let me point something out. A SINGLE artificer-armoured acolyte costs one point less than FOUR mystics and/or familiars. Given that your unit is going to be in 4+ cover basically every game, you're saying you'd rather have one 2+ save model than four 4+ save models?

Yeah, because they soak up more damage. Your spamming of 6+ save models will all die in a good bolter barrage; the artificer Acolytes can withstand a lot more punishment (hence their price tag).

 

Don't forget that flamers and other 'cover ignored' weaponry will annhilate most retinues no problems in cover; having a few 2+ saves in the unit (plus the multi-wound, 3+ armour standard Lord) lets survive longer against such weaponry (because you can allocate wounds onto whoever you like).

If they get close enough to flame you, you're dead anyway. The Inquisitor and retinue should be in the backfield, behind a wall of friendly infantry, and in deep cover. You're not buying 6+ save models, you're buying 4+ cover-save models. Mystics will let you hit deep-strikers before they can hit you, so should minimize damage from that. And any decent outflanker will assault you, in which case you're dead no matter what. This means that 90-some percent of damage you take should be from long-range enemy shooting, in which case cover saves are fine. And while 2+ saves are nice, so are 4 wounds!

[nathan-san]

Hmmm

 

Well, since I'm playing on a city fight board (heaps of cover), am staying out of close cover, and have a whole bunch of long range heavy weapons in the retinue, I guess I will go with quantity over quality

 

I'll work on maxing out mystics, familiars, and maybe 1 or 2 cheap acolytes, just in case I get pie plated or flamer'd

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Still good to have, and gives them 3 attacks on the charge. Can be handy.

 

Oh yeah, but like I said, only Guardsman, Tau Troops and Grots will notice. Believe me, Malleus retinues last about 2 seconds in combat with anything half-decent.

 

I've toyed with using Mancatchers with Power Armour, but it seems expensive and useless unless I happen to corner a army leader or somesuch. Thoughts on the 'ol catcher?

 

On a Hereticus Lord retinue, they're fantastic. The following build eats MC's and IC's pretty well, annoying as hell to kill, and people's jaws drop to the floor when their Prince/Carnifex/Tyrant dies to a squad of T3 models;

 

Hereticus Lord, eviscerator, 'His Will Be Done'

3 x Crusaders, 3 x Acolytes w/power armour+man-catchers, 2 x Chiurgeons, 3 x Familiars

(256 points)